Help Us Understand CO (Edited)

[Imom]

This is the co:


STATE OF INDIANA                                            IN THE KNOX SUPERIOR COURT 1
COUNTY OF KNOX                                              CASE NO.

XXXXXXX XXXXX XXXX

V.
XXXX XXXXX XXXXX, XX


AGREEMENT CONCERNING CUSTODY AND VISITTATION
Comes no the parties hereto and herein submit to the Court the following agreement concerning the Custody and Visitation of their minor child.

1. Background: List all parties and child's name, dob's . S.S. number's and what state they will reside.

2. Legal custody: The parties herein agree that they will share joint legal custody of the minor child.

3. Physical Custody: The parties agree that they shall each share the physical custody of their child in the following manner:

Father: The father shall have physical custody of the minor child from 1 week prior to the school year
until 1 week following the school year.

Mother: The mother shall have physical custody of the minor child during times when the child is out of school for any period of time longer than a 3 day weekend.

4. Transportation: The parties acknowledge that this arrangement may lead to considerable expense for transporting the child between residences. After careful consideration and discussion, the parties agree that transportation shall be the responsibility of the non-custodial parent.

5. Support: The parties agree that any support obligation in this matter would be nearly equal.
Therefore, the parties have agreed that no direct support shall be paid from 1 parent to the other.

6. Visitation: The parties agree that the distance involved will make visitation difficult. The parties agree to any reasonable visitation upon advanced notice.

The Christmas vacation on even years will be spent with the father and the Christmas vacation on odd years will be spent with the mother.

7. Tax Exemption: The father shall be allowed to claim the child, xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx, as a dependant for tax purposes for the even years. The father agrees to execute any documents necessary for the mother to claim said child during the odd years.

The mother shall be allowed to claim the child, xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx, as a dependent for tax purposes for the odd years. The mother agrees to execute any documents necessary for the father to claim said child during the even years.

Both parties signed, ordered and dated by the court December 23, 1998.

***********************************************************

BM's GF died and she wants ss to attend, DH does not. SS is 9 and has a language developmental problem, dh thinks ss is still to young and not ready for this.

BM states there is a clause in the court order that she has rights to ss for a funeral and dh must hand him over or she will call the judge because we are refusing to give her ss as the co states, and we are ignoring her efferts to get ss (she has left these statements on my voicemail).

BM does live out of state (9 hours away).

1. If dh does not give her ss is he in contempt?

[jilly]

I don't understand what a language developmental problem has to do with allowing a 9 year old child attend his grandfather's funeral.  Is it because he has trouble expressing himself verbally and you're afraid that he'll be scared and won't be able to communicate to anyone?

I can't comment on the legal aspect of your CO but I think morally your SSs attendance at the funeral is the right thing to do.  I think 9 years old is old enough to understand the basic concept of death.  Even with the language developmental problem I'm sure it could be explained to him in a way he could understand.  And it's his grandfather! You don't get many of those in this lifetime and once they're gone you don't get em back.

There may be other issues that I'm not aware of, but I really think your DH needs to reconsider his decision. Course we know that opinions are like a$$holes and everybody's got one so take it for what it's worth! LOL

[socrateaser]

The CO states that parties are entitled to "reasonable visitation on advance notice." So, the question is whether or not visitation for a funeral on advance notice is reasonable.

Visitation implies visting the child where the child is currently residing, not driving the child 9 hours to a funeral for an extended stay.

On the other hand, if you didn't know that there was a funeral, and your ex asked for the weekend with the child, would you give it to her? If your answer is yes, then the 9 hour drive argument is out the window, and such a request is reasonable.

If you want to argue that this funeral will cause unreasonable distress for the child, then that might make this visitation unreasonable, however, you should be capable of articulating precisely why the child would be harmed by attending.

From the court's perspective, no one is ever going to get clear and convincing evidence necessary to a showing of civil contempt, and certainly not beyond all reasonable doubt evidence for a criminal contempt, from a CO that says that the parties agree to reasonable visitation.

This clause is way too vague for that kind of a penalty.

Bottom line, is that if you want to fight, you're not gonna get a contempt order, unless the judge specifically orders you to let the child attend.

Personally, I think this sounds a little more like a control issue, rather than real concern for the child's welfare, however, I'm not you and I can't really evaluate the case, at that level of scrutiny. That's for the judge to decide.

[Imom]

This is the co:


STATE OF INDIANA                                            IN THE KNOX SUPERIOR COURT 1
COUNTY OF KNOX                                              CASE NO.

XXXXXXX XXXXX XXXX

V.
XXXX XXXXX XXXXX, XX


AGREEMENT CONCERNING CUSTODY AND VISITTATION
Comes no the parties hereto and herein submit to the Court the following agreement concerning the Custody and Visitation of their minor child.

1. Background: List all parties and child's name, dob's . S.S. number's and what state they will reside.

2. Legal custody: The parties herein agree that they will share joint legal custody of the minor child.

3. Physical Custody: The parties agree that they shall each share the physical custody of their child in the following manner:

Father: The father shall have physical custody of the minor child from 1 week prior to the school year
until 1 week following the school year.

Mother: The mother shall have physical custody of the minor child during times when the child is out of school for any period of time longer than a 3 day weekend.

4. Transportation: The parties acknowledge that this arrangement may lead to considerable expense for transporting the child between residences. After careful consideration and discussion, the parties agree that transportation shall be the responsibility of the non-custodial parent.

5. Support: The parties agree that any support obligation in this matter would be nearly equal.
Therefore, the parties have agreed that no direct support shall be paid from 1 parent to the other.

6. Visitation: The parties agree that the distance involved will make visitation difficult. The parties agree to any reasonable visitation upon advanced notice.

The Christmas vacation on even years will be spent with the father and the Christmas vacation on odd years will be spent with the mother.

7. Tax Exemption: The father shall be allowed to claim the child, xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx, as a dependant for tax purposes for the even years. The father agrees to execute any documents necessary for the mother to claim said child during the odd years.

The mother shall be allowed to claim the child, xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx, as a dependent for tax purposes for the odd years. The mother agrees to execute any documents necessary for the father to claim said child during the even years.

Both parties signed, ordered and dated by the court December 23, 1998.

***********************************************************

BM's GF died and she wants ss to attend, DH does not. SS is 9 and has a language developmental problem, dh thinks ss is still to young and not ready for this.

BM states there is a clause in the court order that she has rights to ss for a funeral and dh must hand him over or she will call the judge because we are refusing to give her ss as the co states, and we are ignoring her efferts to get ss (she has left these statements on my voicemail).

BM does live out of state (9 hours away).

1. If dh does not give her ss is he in contempt?

[jilly]

I don't understand what a language developmental problem has to do with allowing a 9 year old child attend his grandfather's funeral.  Is it because he has trouble expressing himself verbally and you're afraid that he'll be scared and won't be able to communicate to anyone?

I can't comment on the legal aspect of your CO but I think morally your SSs attendance at the funeral is the right thing to do.  I think 9 years old is old enough to understand the basic concept of death.  Even with the language developmental problem I'm sure it could be explained to him in a way he could understand.  And it's his grandfather! You don't get many of those in this lifetime and once they're gone you don't get em back.

There may be other issues that I'm not aware of, but I really think your DH needs to reconsider his decision. Course we know that opinions are like a$$holes and everybody's got one so take it for what it's worth! LOL

[socrateaser]

The CO states that parties are entitled to "reasonable visitation on advance notice." So, the question is whether or not visitation for a funeral on advance notice is reasonable.

Visitation implies visting the child where the child is currently residing, not driving the child 9 hours to a funeral for an extended stay.

On the other hand, if you didn't know that there was a funeral, and your ex asked for the weekend with the child, would you give it to her? If your answer is yes, then the 9 hour drive argument is out the window, and such a request is reasonable.

If you want to argue that this funeral will cause unreasonable distress for the child, then that might make this visitation unreasonable, however, you should be capable of articulating precisely why the child would be harmed by attending.

From the court's perspective, no one is ever going to get clear and convincing evidence necessary to a showing of civil contempt, and certainly not beyond all reasonable doubt evidence for a criminal contempt, from a CO that says that the parties agree to reasonable visitation.

This clause is way too vague for that kind of a penalty.

Bottom line, is that if you want to fight, you're not gonna get a contempt order, unless the judge specifically orders you to let the child attend.

Personally, I think this sounds a little more like a control issue, rather than real concern for the child's welfare, however, I'm not you and I can't really evaluate the case, at that level of scrutiny. That's for the judge to decide.