Re: Denial of Visitation - Out of State - Teenage Boys

[SFMedic]

Hello,

My situation regards my two sons, who are 15 and 14 y/o, oldest will turn 16 on Dec 4th, I live in Baltimore, MD and they live in Morgantown, WV, which is a 4hr drive one way. Since returning them as of July 30th of this year, my wife and I have not seen anymore.

The reason they give, is that they feel they are old enough to make their own decisions, so they decided they would not be coming down anymore. This was said to us over the phone at 9pm on Aug 4th, the day before I was to pick them up, for my last two weeks of summer visitation.

I have court ordered visitation of every other weekend, 5 weeks in the summer, where I can take 2 wks consectutively. We were totally taken by surprised with the call. We also realize after a few weeks of sporadic phone calls to them, this was totally a setup way in advance.

My youngest has just started 9th grade, so he's at the same high school with his older brother in 10th grade. Based on what they say and how they act, this is about my older Son being able to go to summer football camp for the entire month of August, so when they called us, it was on a Thursday with camp starting the following Monday.

We have also asked everytime if we could come up to take them out and talk to us and they have pretty much given us one lame excuse after another as to why they can't.

The Mother is totally behind all of this taking place, because it also centers around their school grades, and how we connect them with doing sports or other activities during our scheduled weekends, as incentive to maintain their grades.

Trying to speaking to the mother has been pointless, because she's basically waiting for us to take her to court, which would be in Annapolis, MD. She was just served this past Sept 7th, regarding a "modification and enforcement of visitation", so I already know she
has 60 days to respond, which she will take the entire 60 days to drag this out as long as possible.

I've also since then, have sent certified letters to her and the county court, regarding my intent to exercise visitation, and just yesterday one was returned back to me "unsigned". I also have over 70+ certified letters that have been sent to her over the years regarding various issues with the boys, again most of having to do with their education.

Regarding the letters (past and present), will they be of any use with the judge? Also, should I expect that the boys will want to testify in front of the judge? Would photo albums of pictures be of any use for evidence?

I'm modifying my visitation for the entire summer, knowing I'll probably have to settle for much less, though the goal is to have consecutive time and not broken up weekends. Which the Mom has always complained about making numerous trips back and forth.

Just last night, Sept 19th, wife and I with baby, drove up and stayed for the entire game to watch him play for a few minutes, took some pictures.  Waited for him by the exit to walk by us as he was leaving.  My wife actually had to ask him to stop, as he kept walking past us with his Mom and Uncle.  The exchange was about his game and showing him how big his Sister was getting.  It was all very awkward, because he didn't even want to acknowledge us until he was asked to.
 
For right now, I'm representing myself, which may change once we've been assigned at court date.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

In advance, thank you for your time...

[socrateaser]

>Regarding the letters (past and present), will they be of any
>use with the judge?

Depends on what you intend to prove with the letters, or any particular letter, and I don't know what that is, so I can't comment, except with respect to the letter returned unsigned, is evidence suggesting that the other parent is intentionally refusing to cooperate with you by failing to accept the mail. However, the other parent could argue that you are harrassing with your 70+ certified mailings. It depends on how many have been sent over the near term.

Also, should I expect that the boys will
>want to testify in front of the judge?

It he kids are to be called as witnesses, then opposing counsel should inform you and the court in advance.

Would photo albums of
>pictures be of any use for evidence?

Once again, I don't know what you want to prove by the photos, so I can't comment.

>
>Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

The fact that the kid doesn't want to acknowledge you at a sporting event, suggests to me that he is intimidated by you, probably because he is trying to assert his independence and senses that you are trying to remain in control. Pretty typical of boys in their mid teens.

I suggest that you start trying to be his friend, a little bit more, and his dad, a little bit less. That may resolve the situation, although I don't know what else may have transpired between you and the boy(s) that may be causing this estrangement.

[SFMedic]

Dear Socrateaser,

The last certified letter, prior to the boys not coming down anymore, was written June 2nd, and it specifically had to do with their school grades, not doing their home work, maintaining a "C" with all the classes and the consequences if they didn't.  This was a follow-up from a phone conversation.

The previous certified letters were also follow-ups regarding any phone conversations centered around a significant event involving the boys.  The letters were also done as a means of documenting different events that have taken place over time.

We stated, from the June 2nd letter, how we were not going to parent out of fear, meaning we wouldn't follow thru and continue to be consistent regarding privileges being taken away, such as not playing on the x-box, instant messaging on the computer, special school events, dances.  This would take place if they ended up with a "D" or "F" with their any of their classes.  We know about their grades through mailed mid term progress reports, and a school e-mail notification program called EdLine, which notifies us each time a teacher post a grade for a test, quiz or homework assignment.

This was being done to hold them accountable for their actions and behavior.

The purpose of the June letter was essentially to point out the difference of how the boys were discipline between our house and their Mom's.

The Mother has repeatedly told the boys how she feel's they are being abused and mistreated by having the above stated privileges taken away.  They have also been led to believe thru their Mother how they are punished every weekend of visistation they have had with us throughout the school year.

The Mother has also scheduled significant family events during our weekends of having the boys, and would then say how it was our fault they  couldn't attend the event.  This we learned by our youngest, during the phone call they had with us on Aug 4th.

My youngest during the same Aug 4th phone call, said how we need to back off about the grades.  He made a comment, "how my make-up weekends (due to military committments), are something made up and just another way for us to have to spend more time with us"

What I wanted to prove by the previous letters?

1.  To show that I was concerned, especially where I would recquest copies of all their nursing notes with doctor appointments.  The certified letters being sent now are regarding my "notification to exercise visitation".  I read through one of the SPARC forums for NCP individuals, this was beneficial to do prior to a court date and to have placed in the permanent court record.  These particular letters were the one's I was referring to they amounting to anything with the judge?

2.  Would or could e-mails be brought up as proof of my involvement, i.e. regarding parent / teacher meetings to discusses their grades?

3.  I asked about recent pictures, with the hope of demonstrating during our weekends / summer visitation, how we did things as a family.

4.  I asked about the boys testifying, wondering how much weight would be given by the judge, regarding them continuing to come down and myself being given reduced visitation as a result of their testimony?   I'm hoping if we do continue having visitation with them, that there isn't a great deal of resentment from them with being forced to spend time with us?  This was  something we were already planning to talk with them about before any of this had taken place.

5.  Given the distance between our two homes (240 miles), would consecutive time of 4 to 6 weeks be an unusual request to bring up during mediation?  Even though I suspect it will be completely rejected by the Mother.

6.  I'm also concerned about when we'll have a court date, considering the grace period to respond doesn't end until Nov 7th.  Wondering if we'll be in court prior to the Thanksgiving Holiday, my wife really hoping were together as a family during this time, as it's our year to have them according to the standing court order.

Thanks again for your valueable insight......!

[MixedBag]

READ "Divorce Poison" by Dr. Warshak.

Some of the "problems" you list here won't get resolved in a courtroom and you're better off figuring out how to solve them yourself.

[socrateaser]

>What I wanted to prove by the previous letters?
>
>1.  To show that I was concerned, especially where I would
>recquest copies of all their nursing notes with doctor
>appointments.  The certified letters being sent now are
>regarding my "notification to exercise visitation".  I read
>through one of the SPARC forums for NCP individuals, this was
>beneficial to do prior to a court date and to have placed in
>the permanent court record.  These particular letters were the
>one's I was referring to they amounting to anything with the
>judge?

I don't necessarily subscribe to the various advice provided on this website. I operate this message board without regard to anything else that appears on SPARC (not that I have anything against SPARC, quite the contrary, but I just prefer to do my own thing here). Anyway, it's nice that you have proof that you're concerned, but my point is that every legal action has elements that must be proven in order to prevail. Concern for your child(ren) is not by itself proof of anything particularly meaningful. I am as yet uncertain as to what exactly it is that you are alleging and how you think your evidence proves your allegations.

And, believe me, if I'm confused, then the judge is gonna be, shall we say, "disinterested?"

>2.  Would or could e-mails be brought up as proof of my
>involvement, i.e. regarding parent / teacher meetings to
>discusses their grades?

Yes, but this has nothing to do with whether or not you should be granted more summer visitation. In order to modify the parenting plan you must show that it is in the child(ren)'s best interests to do so (actually, in most jurisdictions, you must show that a clear and convincing change in the child(ren)'s circumstances has occured, but I don't know about your jurisdiction, so I'm presenting both possibilities).

And, so far, you're not proving much to me, other than that your kids are getting older and they don't want to spend time with you, for some reason as yet undiscovered. You may want to request some court ordered counselling for yourself and your boys.

>3.  I asked about recent pictures, with the hope of
>demonstrating during our weekends / summer visitation, how we
>did things as a family.

That's nice, but it's not making your case.

>4.  I asked about the boys testifying, wondering how much
>weight would be given by the judge, regarding them continuing
>to come down and myself being given reduced visitation as a
>result of their testimony?  

If the boys sound credible, then their testimony will be given considerable weight, mainly because it's not real easy to force teenage boys to visit when they don't want to, and the court isn't gonna force them.

>5.  Given the distance between our two homes (240 miles),
>would consecutive time of 4 to 6 weeks be an unusual request
>to bring up during mediation?  Even though I suspect it will
>be completely rejected by the Mother.

No, but unless you can make a case that shows that the kid's lives will be substantially (clearly and convincingly) improved by this request for extra time, you're request will be refused.

>6.  I'm also concerned about when we'll have a court date,
>considering the grace period to respond doesn't end until Nov
>7th.  Wondering if we'll be in court prior to the Thanksgiving
>Holiday, my wife really hoping were together as a family
>during this time, as it's our year to have them according to
>the standing court order.

Don't count on it. At the moment, I have a pretty strong opinion that you're action will be dismissed with an order for the boys to engage in counseling with you.