Can you make heads or tails of this?

[wysiwyg]

Soc

Indiana Here, courts orders are to follow the Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines "without alteration".  At the conclusion of our last hearing where BM was found in contempt X 2 for failing to abide by courts direct orders, we asked our attorney the question that given the "without alteration" clause in the order, if BM signed child up for an activity on my weekend without my consent what happens, the response was that BM can not take that weekend away UNLESS per the guidelines the parents agree to another arrangement.

BF asked BM to switch a weekend so child could go to school weekend field trip, BM refused, in absence of aggreement BF told her that the EOW clause without alteration and in absence of aggreement BF would get child at 6 PM.  Child not there at 6 PM, this caused BF to not see Child from March 24 weekend to May 5 weekend.

Per the guidelines, when a parent looses time due to a event outside the normal family routine, the parents are to agree to a weekend make up time if no aggreement is made NCP (BF) is to select the time.  BF has selected this time - BM refused it multiple times and multiple wekeends.

Her rationalization, is that BF FORFEITED his weekend by not coming to get the child when child returned from trip (4:30 AM Sunday AM, BF was never called nor was on emergency contact sheet to pick up from school, BM did not contact BF at all), but BF was there for pick up per the court orderd 6 PM exchange at the house, child nor BM were present.  All documented.  

Question #1:  Can you make any justifiable reationalization of this so called forfeiture in absence of an agreement between the parties?

Question #2:Can you give me a rational written response I can give to BM since my attempts to tell her that you can not forfeit something that you do not have to begin with theory?

Question #3: is it time to give up trying?  I have spent 90K in legal fees over the last 12 years, I have no retirment or savings left and the courts keep only giving her a slap on the hand.


Thank you for letting me rant!

[socrateaser]

>Question #1:  Can you make any justifiable reationalization of
>this so called forfeiture in absence of an agreement between
>the parties?

Not without reading the exact text of the guidelines and the exact facts that allegedly violated them.

>
>Question #2:Can you give me a rational written response I can
>give to BM since my attempts to tell her that you can not
>forfeit something that you do not have to begin with theory?

No. See above.

>
>Question #3: is it time to give up trying?  I have spent 90K
>in legal fees over the last 12 years, I have no retirment or
>savings left and the courts keep only giving her a slap on the
>hand.

Only you can answer that question. If you have obtained contempts, then the other parent should have been ordered to reimburse you for your legal fees. So, much of your fees must have been for other purposes.

Anyway, it obvious has been very important for you to maintain the relationship with your kids, so maybe it was worth it to the extent that you have had parenting time you wouldn't have otherwise had.

Someone else might have just said, "!@#$ it," long ago, and not felt bad about it at all.

Different strokes for different folks.

[wysiwyg]

Soc,

The "guidelines" are a 30 plus page doc - I will try and copy pertinant parts for you but bear in mind that the intenet is to have frequent and meaningful parenting time with the NCP.

The order states "The Court reminds the parties that the Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines shall continue to apply to this case. The Parties are admonished that the Parenting Time Guidelines will be enforced strictly without deviation."

Guideline passages:

On alternating weekends from Friday at 6:00 P.M. until Sunday at 6:00 P.M. (the times may change to fit the parents' schedules).

Whenever there is a need to adjust the established parenting schedules because of events outside the normal family routine, the parent who becomes aware of the circumstance shall notify the other parent as far in advance as possible.  Both parents shall then attempt to reach a mutually acceptable adjustment to the parenting schedule. (Note: BM knew and signed child up in NOvember, did not notifiy BF until March, during the time of November to March the parties were court ordered to participate in mediation, BM refused to go thus the court found her in contemt for not going to mediation and following the multiple orders to participate)
 
If an adjustment results in one parent losing scheduled parenting time with the child, "make-up" time should be exercised as soon as possible.   If the parents cannot agree on "make-up" time, the parent who lost the time shall select the "make-up" time within one month of the missed time.

When a disagreement occurs regarding parenting time and the requirements of these Guidelines, both parents shall make every effort to discuss options, including mediation, in an attempt to resolve the dispute before going to court.

In exercising parenting time with a teenager, the non-custodial parent shall make reasonable efforts to accommodate a teenager's participation in his or her regular academic, extracurricular and social activities.  (NOTE:  I did this by approaching BM and stating I believed that the child should go to the activity and offered to switch the weekend, she 1. ignored my email (received and documented) 2. hung up on me when I called her to discuss the issue (recorded and transcribed) 3. received my certified letter (signature card received back).

Thus since no arrangement could be reached, BM sent child to activity.  THis is the third instance in which she has done this in recent months adn claimed forfeiture on my part.  

She has been ordered to pay my attorney's fees although it is usually is only a portion of the actual cost.  Although not releveant to the case but might show you the control demeanor she wants over the child, the child is 15 and BM still goes to ALL overnight BS camp trips, all overnight school functions and is now claiming a work injusry to allow her to be with teh child 24/7 to which he is about to explode from her hovering.  NOt sure about you, but I would have had a cow if my mother went to boy scout camp with me at that age.  My opinion on this restrained........

[socrateaser]

OK:

Your facts appear to show that other parent violated the court order because she did not have the child available to you at 6pm. There was no adjustment agreed to by you, thus the other parent has committed a contempt.

Your facts also appear to show that the other parent violated the court order because she didn't have the child available until 430 when the child was supposed to be available at 6 (10.5 hrs?).

If these are true and you can prove them, then the other parent is in contempt.

Your issue about justifying or trying to explain to her why she is incorrect is irrelevant. It's not your job to explain the court order to her. If she's in contempt, file a contempt motion, and if the court is finally fed up, it will reverse custody.

Your child is a boy who is quickly becoming a man. I suspect he will shortly want to live with you. Indiana has college age support, so if you achieve a reversal of custody based on the mother's continued contempts, then you will be able to pin her to pay the bulk of college tuition. This could go a long way to getting you your $90K+ back.

Of course, it's the proving it part that's always so difficult.

And, you may be better off trying to get the child to a therapist who will determine that the child's mental and emotional health requires that he be given a much greater amount of time with his father. That may be money better spent, if the kid has expressed a desire to live with you.

That was the legal analysis. Now, I'm gonna give you some unsolicited personal thoughts, which come from me as an ordinary man, rather than as a legal advisor (and I am not a therapist, so don't take any of this as anything other than lay opinion):

If the child is being hovered over by his mom, as you described, and yet he still doesn't want to live with you, then regrettably, your son doesn't like you near as much as you think he does, or would like for him too, and frankly, my advice is to stop fighting for what you will never get, and just move on with your life.

A boy needs to see a father who cares about him, but won't take any crap, either. Sometimes not taking crap means telling your kid to either start acting like a man, or screw off.

I know when I was 15, the idea of my parents even coming in my general vicinity when I was with my peers was an abomination. So, either you child likes having his mom watch his every move, or he's a whimp, and someone needs to tell him to grow some balls and a spine.

That someone, would be you. And, the only way you can do it is by example. Which basically means telling your kid that if he doesn't start helping you to get him away from his mom and live with you, so you can show him a little about what being a man is all about, then you're just gonna leave him with his mom and move on with your life, because you've spent enough money trying to help him, that you could have bought him a Ferrari by now (a used one -- lol)!

[wysiwyg]

I always like your cut to the chase approach.  the 10.5 hours was more like 34.5 it was 430 AM SUNDAY that he returned and yes I cna prove this form the principal of the school as well as the childs sign up sheet that showed mom deliberately left BF contact info off, which was a previous contempt violation founded by the court, yet she did it again.

As far as the child wanting to be with me, he has always expressed that, however - BM is an admitted physical abuser - court records show this she admittied thisin court adn I have the transcripts, and she has tormented the child into submission, he is terrified of her.

The court had us in therapy - mediation, case management, but when BM failed to comply with teh courts orders, the court recinded the prior order and now we have no recourse but the courts who have BLUNTLY told us that they do not want to see us in the courtroom anymore, we have already had three differnet judges.

I know IN has the college age support, but I had thought that was up for readjustment for post secondary eduacation at age 18, however we will see how that pans out, at this point the child has expressed a desire to join the military at age 18 this will happen during his senior year and he has asked me to take him to do waht he has to to join.  I think this is best for him, to break the apron strings.

[hoosierpapa4]

>I always like your cut to the chase approach.  the 10.5 hours
>was more like 34.5 it was 430 AM SUNDAY that he returned and
>yes I cna prove this form the principal of the school as well
>as the childs sign up sheet that showed mom deliberately left
>BF contact info off, which was a previous contempt violation
>founded by the court, yet she did it again.
>
>As far as the child wanting to be with me, he has always
>expressed that, however - BM is an admitted physical abuser -
>court records show this she admittied thisin court adn I have
>the transcripts, and she has tormented the child into
>submission, he is terrified of her.
>
>The court had us in therapy - mediation, case management, but
>when BM failed to comply with teh courts orders, the court
>recinded the prior order and now we have no recourse but the
>courts who have BLUNTLY told us that they do not want to see
>us in the courtroom anymore, we have already had three
>differnet judges.
>
>I know IN has the college age support, but I had thought that
>was up for readjustment for post secondary eduacation at age
>18, however we will see how that pans out, at this point the
>child has expressed a desire to join the military at age 18
>this will happen during his senior year and he has asked me to
>take him to do waht he has to to join.  I think this is best
>for him, to break the apron strings.

Wysiwyg, I live in Indiana too and have been through our fine Court systems since 1999, perhaps I can offer a little assistance with the Court system and what you might expect.  From the perspective of raising sons, I have two sons, three daughters and another son on the way from my second marriage, maybe I can offer a little help there too.  I agree with Soc with having your son grow a spine, but I also recognize your sons desires to please his mother too.  I live with this every day with my two sons, they hang on her every word, yet she lets them down and lies to them perpetually.

Lets find a way to talk.