Speaking on Andrea Yates the other day.....

[lovebug]

You said "Frankly, women diagnosed with mental illnes SHOULD lose custody to men who are stable. Just as men diagnosed with mental illnes should NOT have primary custody."

What if both parent have a mental disorder?

For instance my ex wife has NPD. She is a nascissist in the worst degree. She refuses to get treatment and refuses medication.

I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder lever 3. Which is the mildest level. I take my medication every day, I go to counseling once a week and I even go to a communications group therapy. I have taken parenting classes and an anger management course because I felt like I needed to be extremely knowledgeable about my own mental illness and how it effects me personally, professionally, and especially as a parent. Before I began all this I was a mess. I was apathetic and could care less about anyone really, including myself. After receiving treatment I am a totally different person.

I have 3 other children who live with me and my wife who are all extremely well adjusted, healthy, and do well in school.

Do you really think I should not have custody of my child/ren?

Generally(without knowing all the other facts and issues involved), In this instance who should have custody, in your opinion?

Just to be clear. I'm not trying to attack you. I hope it doesn't come across that way. I really what to know what you think.

[catherine]

because you have a proven track record and have been responsible taking care of yourself, your illness is no different than someone with diabetes.

[wendl]

Love,
you saught help and are taking control over your problem, this woman was not. You are nothing like Yates.

Unfortunately to many people use mental illness to excuse their behavior for lighter sentences.

JMO

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[lyonsden]

I know all about this my wife was discharged in 1995 from the Army for depression. I stood by her thru the last 10+ yrs and now look at my situation under fathers issues lyonsden [I need help, advice, and anything else I may need]. I am now living this nightmare and the powers that be dont give a damn. I have seen the lows the highs and every thing in the middle. If you study the Yates case enough you eventually find the statement she made were she had to run the oldest bot down(he ran out of the house) drug him back in to the house and drowned him he is the last one, the one that was in the tub when the first officer got to the house.

I live in constant fear that this will happen to my children, oh God please don't let this happen to me.

[Peanutsdad]

>You said "Frankly, women diagnosed with mental illnes SHOULD
>lose custody to men who are stable. Just as men diagnosed with
>mental illnes should NOT have primary custody."
>
>What if both parent have a mental disorder?
Ok, THAT's a tough one LOL. How about neither.



>
>For instance my ex wife has NPD. She is a nascissist in the
>worst degree. She refuses to get treatment and refuses
>medication.
Bingo, theres a winner folks,, exactly the kind of patient I'm talkin about.


>
>I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder lever 3. Which is the
>mildest level. I take my medication every day, I go to
>counseling once a week and I even go to a communications group
>therapy. I have taken parenting classes and an anger
>management course because I felt like I needed to be extremely
>knowledgeable about my own mental illness and how it effects
>me personally, professionally, and especially as a parent.
>Before I began all this I was a mess. I was apathetic and
>could care less about anyone really, including myself. After
>receiving treatment I am a totally different person.

I commend you on recognizing your illness and remaining in treatment. You DO understand that dealing closely with mental health physicians as I do in the ER setting, one of their biggest complaints is bipolar disorder crisis secondary to not staying on meds or in treatment. That is the most common problem for bipolar patients, and as such, it does raise issues about suitability as a parent or raise awareness of increased risks associated with the inherent problems such patients face.
In fact, as to difficulty in treatment , our MD's list the crack smoker, then the schizoid breaks, then bipolar disorder.

I would ask, how long have you been in treatment? Was your getting into treatment a result of your new wife? your exwife? How sure were they of your diagnosis? Have you been retested to ensure it was not simply a depressive disorder related to living with your ex?
Have you backslid at all in treatment?




>
>I have 3 other children who live with me and my wife who are
>all extremely well adjusted, healthy, and do well in school.

Sorry, but living with two mentally ill parents makes it rather difficult to believe they are well adjusted. That's not a slam, its simply an observation. I understand they dont live with two mentally ill parents now, but how long did they? A little more in the facts department please.
>
>Do you really think I should not have custody of my
>child/ren?
Without knowing more about you , your diagnosis, the ability of the doctor seeing you, your abilities, your support network,, it makes that a rather difficult call to make doesnt it? If you wanted the simple answer, there isnt one. IF you are truly bipolar, then I would have pretty severe reservations considering the rate of patients that go off meds. On the otherhand, I have more reservations about your ex's diagnosis.


>
>Generally(without knowing all the other facts and issues
>involved), In this instance who should have custody, in your
>opinion?

Without knowing all the other facts and issues,, how about neither, or either. Or how about another family member with custody and supervised visitation, or foster care? You ask me for an answer based on not knowing anything about the case, so lets flip a coin.
>
>Just to be clear. I'm not trying to attack you. I hope it
>doesn't come across that way. I really what to know what you
>think.

Just to be clear, nor am I. You asked direct blunt questions, I tried to answer them as best as I can.
Sorry, but far too many mentally ill parents who have killed their kids and been in the news lately have also been under treatment or on medication for their illness. Therefor, being on meds or in treatment does not in my mind make the mental illnesses "just like diabetes" as some would say. I think there is far more risk to children or others when mental illness is present than with other illnesses.

Most mentally ill patients will never become violent, BUT the risk is certainly greater with mental illness than with mentally stable people.
>
>

[lovebug]

I want to answer your questions because I am very interetsed in talking about this. I have read these boards for several months and I respect your opinion. I am not at all offended by what you said and I recognize that the court may say something similar.

Firts, Let me explain that my 3 younger children are from my second marriage. I was married until 1996 to my ex wife and then married my current wife in 1998. My current wife (she hates when I refer to her that way) does not have any mental disorder.  I was diagnosed with OCD in 2000 after being married for 2 years. And then BiPD a year later. I don't have OCD but I was not tested in 2000. I was given full psyciatric testing in 2001. I cannot remember all of them. It took 2 days to complete all the testing. After the testing was complete I was diagnosed with severe Adult ADHD (which I've had since a child) and Cyclothmia (BiPD III) I have been evaluated by 3 different doctors since then and they believe as do I that I suffer from this illness. It also runs in both sides of my family.

I have been in treatment which involves individual and group talk theraby, behavior modification therapy, and anger management classes. Anger management was individual and group sessions as well.

I have done all this voluntarially, I have never been asked or ordered to do this. I also took a parenting class which was two parts. One class offered by my mental health clinic was about being a loving and effective parent while coping with mental illness. The other was a normal parenting class that would generally be give (so I am told).

I have been in treatment since February 2001. Almost 3 years. I've never gone off meds. I always have my liver functions tests on time to make sure my med levels are at the right levels. I recgonise the difficulty with patients that go off meds being very unstable. I have never done that. I will admit that I have thought of it. But after my doctor explained that it is the meds that make me feel stable enough to not need them and that if I stopped taking them that I would not feel stable anymore, I decided not to stop and have not entertained that thought again. I undertand that I need to take them regardless of how well I feel.

Other than that I have not had any backward issues at all.  I want to be a good and healthy Father for all of my children. I also understand that people with BiPD commonly have strained personal relationships with loved ones and people close to them. I don't want that to happen. I love my family and I don't want to hurt them or push them away in anyway. I feel that my illness  should effect others around me the least amount possible.

BTW, I sought treatment for me. I have done it for myself and my family because I knew that I needed to. I was the only one who could do it.  I knew my friends and family could help me but I had to do it for me.

I Understand your reservation about which parent my daughter should live with. I understand that the court might have the same reservation. I thnk it is a valid concern. I agree with what you said about patients who are BiP off meds. I have seen it with the people in my group. It is as if they are 2 different people and neither one knows the other. They don't have the same thoughts and feelings and cannot control their actions and they think thier reactions are appropriate for any given situation when clearly they are not. I have seen people in group become violent.

I want you to know that I have never been violent with either of my wives nor any of my children. I did have an episode when I was 16 in which I allowed myself to become so angry with my mother that I punched and broke a window. That was 17 years ago. I do not allow myself to get angry. I cannot allow that sort of thing to happen again. can I guarantee that it won't? No I can't. Can I promise? No.

The only thing I can do is keep doing the things I need to do to avoid becoming out-of-control again. I know the risk is always there. I didn't like the person that I was then. I don't intend to see him again.

I liked what you said here "Sorry, but far too many mentally ill parents who have killed their kids and been in the news lately have also been under treatment or on medication for their illness. Therefor, being on meds or in treatment does not in my mind make the mental illnesses "just like diabetes" as some would say. I think there is far more risk to children or others when mental illness is present than with other illnesses."

I agree with you. There is a far greater risk. If I had diabetes and my blood sugar became so high that I went into a state of kitosis (sp) I would undoubtedly be too physically sick to hurt myself or anyone.

There are no family members that could take custody of our daughter that both her mother and I would agree on. I happen to think there is more risk in foster care than with me. I was in foster care for a years when I was a teenager. It was the worst environment I could have imagined. Probably worse than anything you could ever imagine.


I don't know all the answers. I truely want what is best for my daughter. I don't think that she is in an environment that is best for her (with her mother). I can also agree that living with My wife and I and our other children might not be what is best. I don't have all the answers, but I do know that somthings needs to change for my daughter. I want to make sure that she is able to grow up healthy and happy. I think that is all any parent wants really. If she can have that with me I would be over-joyed. My greatest fear is that the court will determine that since we both have mental illnesses that the child should remain with her mother beccause the risk would be determine the same. I don't think that is true and I pray that it will not happen.

Thanks for you thoughts. I really do appreciate them and you.

[Peanutsdad]

For taking my post as it was intended......a honest blunt assessment of a touchy subject.