Parenting Time Clarification

[jgaff78]

September 2008, my fiance and his ex went back to court to have the parenting time order modified since the child is older now (just turned and should have more time with her father. This is a long distance situation, from Indiana to Florida, so transportation is a big issue. (Mom was the one who moved away when they separated)

The order does not specify who pays for which trip, only stating that dad must travel to Florida in order to get his daughter for Thanksgiving and he must pay for half of the spring break trip. He and I were under the assumption that the Christmas and summer trips would be split 50/50 with the mom, but she continually has other ideas. She now says that it has always been that she paid for the entire summer and we paid for Christmas, but that has not been the case, especially under the new order. She paid for half of Christmas visitation last year, half of spring break, and claims she paid round trip for their daughter for summer visitation. She may have paid for the daughter's round-trip ticket (I can't remember at the moment), but she did not pay for our expense in transporting her since I have receipts for my flight to pick her up at the beginning of the summer.

When we were discussing transportation for Christmas this year, she suddenly became irate when we discovered that she assumed we were paying for the entire trip. She claims she is now physically unable to fly and that she will not fly up here to pick up their daughter again. She brought up the idea of flying their daughter unaccompanied this summer, but since their daughter was not emotionally ready to do so, it did not happen. Now she is threatening that she will not put her on the plane at the beginning of Christmas break if we have not bought her a return ticket to come home AND she wants her to fly unaccompanied unless we are willing to foot the bill for one of us to fly back with her.

Anyway, we need to figure out how to get this order clarified so that it is clear who pays for which trip. How do we do that? And what should we do about the situation for this Christmas? We really can't afford to pay for the extra ticket and we are not comfortable with her flying alone. What are our options for getting this fixed ASAP?

[MixedBag]

hmmm....I'm wondering why you guys don't feel comfortable with the child travelling alone as an unaccompanied minor when the child has flown on several other occasions and now qualifies?

I ask this because I've had up to 6 kids flying around the country, and never did we have an "incident" -- and we're talking 3 divorces, 3 destinations.....etc.  The kids are either former steps, or grown, and I'm down to one -- who knows Atlanta airport as well as any other adult out there.  I believe in the unaccompanied minor system the airlines have.

Quick solution?  Buy all the tickets necessary to get Christmas behind you and then ask for reimbursement in court when you ask for a clarification.

Don't give up time.....you can't make up Christmas itself....sorta....so you have to pick and choose your priorities and then go with it. 

AND if you guys can't come to an agreement as to how things will go in the future, file for clarification.

[jgaff78]

The reason we don't want her to fly alone is that she just turned 8 and is not emotionally mature enough to handle it. I tried speaking with her about it over the summer and she was very scared. Her mother seemed to understand that and did not push the issue any further. The only reason she is pushing it now is because she wants us to pay for everything and because she doesn't want to get off her butt to fly. She is only thinking of herself, not her daughter.

This mother does not provide an emotionally stable environment for her daughter. She treats her like a baby most of the time and only wants her to act like a "big girl" when it is convenient for her. We have issues at every visitation with getting the little girl to return to acting her age when she is with us. She is generally emotionally unstable, she cries at every little thing and seems to feel that the world is caving in on her. She does not get to go out and experience the world when she is with her mother so she doesn't really have any street smarts and gets lost and confused easily. She still gets a little nervous on flights even when we are sitting beside her to reassure her, so I am not convinced that she will do well sitting by herself. Plus she will be flying during the winter and the flight is likely to be very rough. It is definitely not a good time to try to start her flying unaccompanied (the last two flights I had into Orlando were VERY turbulent). It also makes us uncomfortable that there has not been a lot of time to prepare her for this situation.

This mother is putting all of the responsibility off on us since we would have to be the ones to put her on the plane by herself to fly back to Florida. If the girl is upset or scared, we are the ones that have to deal with it, not her mother. I know other people have said we should make her mother be the one to put her on the plane to fly unaccompanied to us, but there are many problems with that. First, if she gets upset and refuses to get on the plane, we chance losing our limited time with her. Second, in order for her mother to put her on the plane, she would have to have a copy of the birth certificate and she does not have one at this time.

It always works out best for us to pick her up at the start of a visitation and her mother to pick her up at the end. It helps reduce the separation anxiety she feels so there is less clinging to the parent she is saying goodbye to. In the past we had been able to use my fiance's parents to help transport her since they previously lived in Florida, but those exchanges were always very emotionally traumatic. She would be very upset to be leaving her dad and scream and cry and say she didn't want to go home. It was also a bit uncomfortable when her mother was either dropping her off or picking her up from her grandparents (mom talks bad about grandma and grandpa in front of her daughter so she feels caught in the middle when they are together). It's just in her best interest for the exchanges to stay the way they are. We actually don't have an issue with being the ones that fly with her round-trip, but we don't feel like we should be responsible for the entire cost of transportation.

[jgaff78]

Also, how do we file for clarification? We have the paperwork for modification and for contempt, but nothing about clarification. I don't know what papers to file to get things spelled out more clearly.

[MomofTwo]

What is the exact wording regarding transportation and transportation costs? If it does not say Mom has to pay half for Christmas, etc...then she probably doesn't have to pay half.  You need to file for clarification before you file for contempt.  If the orders are ambiguous about all transportation costs, or if it does not say Mom has to pay half for all trips, then contempt is not very likely to happen.

[jgaff78]

That's the problem though, we don't know how to file for clarification because the only paperwork I can find is contempt or modification. I was just wondering if anybody had a resource where I could find paperwork to file for clarification.

Our state parenting time guidelines do mention that we should divide the expense of transportation, but it is not directly spelled out in the court order. That's why we need it clarified.

[Davy]

Pro se' advocates are not expected to possess Harvard law degrees.

You may be able to verbally motion the court at the next hearing but it is best to file a writtten motion.  I was accustomed to entering the court description in the upper left-hand corner and placing "Motion to Clarify" centered on the page.  In the body of the motion, reference the court order by date, page, line number or the whatever the standard referencing points are in your court ...  along with the verbage needing clarification.  Sign and date this document at the bottom along with with identifying yourself as the respondent or petitioner to the original cause of action.

If referencing points are not known, call a court clerk for advice but do what you want that is  rational and necessary (ie attach the order) for clarity to the court.  It is OK if you're asked to clarify your request to clarify.

Hope this helps.  Excessive exactness is not required.

[jgaff78]

That does help, thank you. I think I will go to the courthouse Monday morning and see if the clerk can help me to figure out what to file. We do not have any upcoming court dates unless we do file for a modification.

Since she is threatening not to bring her to the airport at the beginning of the visitation, we are reminding her that she will be in contempt if she does not show at the specified time. Perhaps that will be enough to get her to speak to us in a more reasonable manner so we can sort it out instead of having to go back to court.

[MixedBag]

Pro Se here -- definitely no expert.

the subject line becomes "Motion to Clarify"

the opening line becomes something like "Comes now the Plaintiff and the Respondent with a Motion to Clarify before the court on the following items because they cause constant argument and tension between the two parents as follows:

1.  First item --- QUOTE the order.  The Mother consistently does THIS.  The Father believes this.  Request the court clarify .

2.  Second item....QUOTE the order.  follow the same pattern in explaining WHY this is a problem.


Wherefore the Plaintiff requests the court clarify the current order as follows.

1.  Match the results YOU would like to see to subject contained in item 1.

2.  Match the results YOU would like to see to the subject contained in item 2.

And so on...

You're not gonna see "templates" to follow...

Hope this helps.....it's off the top of my head this morning and fairly close to the pattern I used.

[jgaff78]

Thank you very much. I think I can manage to get that set up now without a template. I think I was just used to having templates where I could write in the information on the lines provided. I never stopped to think that I could just type up a paper on my own.