Perpetual Letters from the Florida Department of Revenue to pay child support.

[72264kids]

State of jurisdiction is Florida, I reside in Virginia.

I am the payor in a child support case. During the year 2002, a final judgement of dissolution was entered which adjudged such.

It was adjudged that I pay $4000 in retroactive arrears, and during the next 3 years I fell into another $4000 of arrears bringing the arrearage total to approximately $8000. (This was due to job layoffs and not filing for a modification in the intermission).

I was initially ordered to pay "x" amount per month in child support and "y" amount to pay in arrears. Both amounts were added together and the total was put on the bottom line of my income deduction order.

I have been paying child support consecutively as per the terms of said income deduction order since June of 2005 (and before this with some interruptions due to job layoffs etc). However, my present wife has been sending checks to the department of revenue (again as per the terms of the income deduction order) since she is the one who has been generating income since June of 2005 and therefore not eligible for an income deduction.  

Around March of 2005, letters started coming from the Florida Department of Revenue (basically asking me to pay the amount in full in 3 days). (The letters were not purge orders).

I have called the Department of Revenue several times to try and figure out what the intention of the letter was. The responses varied as follows:

1) "This is just a general collection effort, just ignore." -DOR customer Service Rep

2) "You do in fact owe the arrears, pay them all now." -DOR customer Service Manager

3) "We are aware that you are presently paying, just keep on paying as per the terms of your income deduction order." DOR customer Service Rep

4) We are aware that you are presently paying, but the letters are coming from the (local) county level. The automated enforcement system has just been updated, however ignoring letters of these types is bad advice in general. We will have to call the county on your behalf and find out their intentions. Under some circumstances they may ask you to sign a contract indicating that you will continue to pay. Under some circumstances, they may try to deduct more money from your paycheck, but this is rare. We are not permitted to give you the local office phone number".... (I am still waiting to get a call back from the "Local" office. - DOR Head

5) "The automated enforcement system has just been updated. The letters which you are receiving are automated. Whisper - I would just ignore that if I was you." - Another DOR Head

6) The State of Florida Department of Revenue, may try to enforce through Virginia, and will have to obey Virginia guidelines. Said enforcement could be done without a court order. I will check with the State and find out what they are trying to do." (lead to phone call as illustrated above on number #4.) OCSE - Federal

Additionally, I have sent the Department of Revenue faxes with delivery confirmation asking what their intentions are, and to advise that I have been paying as per the terms of the Income Deduction Order for the past year. However, the letters are always ignored, no one calls me back as promised, and the letters become more adverse each time.

My questions are as follows:

1) Why would I want to sign an agreement with the DOR if they wanted that? I already have an income deduction order. Why would I want to legally bind myself any further? I could lose my ability to pay again, and then what, faster enforcement?

2) If the DOR asked me to sign an agreement, and I refused, could they put me under additional duress as a consequence of such?

3) How should I proceed since these letters keep coming in and no one calls me back?

Thank you for your time.

[socrateaser]

>My questions are as follows:
>
>1) Why would I want to sign an agreement with the DOR if they
>wanted that? I already have an income deduction order. Why
>would I want to legally bind myself any further? I could lose
>my ability to pay again, and then what, faster enforcement?

You wouldn't and you don't have to sign one.

>
>2) If the DOR asked me to sign an agreement, and I refused,
>could they put me under additional duress as a consequence of
>such?

If you're doing what you are court ordered to do, then that's all you have to do.

>
>3) How should I proceed since these letters keep coming in and
>no one calls me back?

Keep all the letters. Send certified mail to DOR summarizing the situation and stating that your position is that you are paying according to the current orders, and that unless and until they provide you with a definitive statement of law showing that you have some other or additional obligation, that you will no longer respond to any of their letters.

I could come up with a couple of legal actions that you could take against them, but the actions would cost you money and probably not get you any money from DOR, so best thing to do is just tell them you're ignoring them and then hang on to their correspondence.

[72264kids]

Thank you very much again for your advice. You have helped me and I will continue to help others, believe me I don't turn my back on others, and offer to help anyone in my shoes (although alot of people in my shoes don't want help).

Funny how you mention legal actions.

This started when I threatened to sue the DOR in my local Virginia District Court for FCRA violations.

They have been populating my credit report with a "chargeoff" each and every month on the child support arrears (which I have presently been paying on as posted.)

Some coincedence.

[72264kids]

I also posted this question in the child support forum.

"KAT" also came back with a pretty good response.

http://www.deltabravo.net/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=163&topic_id=3882&mesg_id=3882&page=

Why not do as follows?

Send to the judge for signature (or even if the judge needs to send it to the DOR for approval) then hand the CP a Restrictive Endorsment check indicating that the CP cannot cash until the judge signs it?

That way there is no "compromise" on debt mentioned in the agreement, and the "in the best interest of the child" phrase could be added.

What do you think?

Thanks

[socrateaser]

>I also posted this question in the child support forum.
>
>"KAT" also came back with a pretty good response.
>
>http://www.deltabravo.net/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=163&topic_id=3882&mesg_id=3882&page=
>
>Why not do as follows?
>
>Send to the judge for signature (or even if the judge needs to
>send it to the DOR for approval) then hand the CP a
>Restrictive Endorsment check indicating that the CP cannot
>cash until the judge signs it?
>
>That way there is no "compromise" on debt mentioned in the
>agreement, and the "in the best interest of the child" phrase
>could be added.
>
>What do you think?

Bank will negotiate the check even with the restrictive endorsement and you'll be screwed.

[72264kids]

What if I choose to ignore them and the DOR decides to take adverse actions against me?

What should I do then?

Cheers

[socrateaser]

>What if I choose to ignore them and the DOR decides to take
>adverse actions against me?
>
>What should I do then?

It's really simple. If you have written documents from DOR telling you a confused story, but the last correspondence says you don't owe and just to keep paying per the terms of your existing order, then that document should permit you some legal recourse for negligent misrepresentation if you are later held to some greater liability.

However, if you want to deal with it now, then you will need to file a motion for a clarification order with the court, and have the court order DOR to get its story straight.

[72264kids]

....but DOR states that they will not give me anything in writing, and they haven't either.....

DOR representative stated "Do you think that DOR really wants to shoot itself in the foot"?

BTW I just got a hold of someone there, and a notice has been sent out to suspend my license.

They just said that they are trying to fix "the glitch in the system".

I am going to ask them again to send me something in writing indicating that I am paying as agreed, but I won't hold my breath.

So maybe I should still send the "I am going to ignore you letter"?

[socrateaser]

>So maybe I should still send the "I am going to ignore you
>letter"?

You should be recording your phone conversations with DOR and telling them that you were doing it. Once you've told them at the time of the recording, even if they say they don't consent, if they continue the conversation then they impliedly consent anyway.

Also, you can send them a letter stating your understanding of the circumstances and that you were told to ignore their letters regarding the particular issues, and that if your understanding is incorrect that they should contact you immediately.

Then it will be on their shoulders to show that they did contact you.

Make sure that letter goes certified mail and put the cert # on the letter (get a USPS blank receipt and use the #). That way they can't later say they never received it or received something other than what you sent them.

[72264kids]

This is ace advice, since I don't have a recorder, I will just go with plan "B".

Consider this thread "sorted".