forgiveness of back CS arrears without CP approval?

[beeboah]

Hi,

Could I ask the judge to forgive back child support arrears if the CP "doesn't want that"?

Thanks

[cinb85]

to forgive back child support arrears?

[beeboah]

before I disclose my reasoning (which might be reasonable), I would like to know if I need the CP's approval to proceed?

[Ref]

I was just researching retroactive CS for an issue that I am having (I am assuming you are in Florida from your reponse to my post). Judges have no authority to reverse arrears. If you genuinely had no ability to pay there may be a chance to avoid contempt, but the arrears are still yours unless CP agrees otherwise.

I hope that answers your question.

Good Luck
Ref

[cinb85]

would be yes, you would need the CP's approval (but it's just a guess).

I am the CP and I would be furious if my ex asked the judge to forgive his back CS arrears without my approval.  The reason that I asked for your reason is because I'm sure that there ARE a few legitimate reason to ask for this.  If my ex had a REALLY good reason, I might consider it.

If you prefer not to disclose your reason, that's fine.  I just figured that your reason might make a difference to the judge and who knows your reason might be good enough for the CP to agree to it!

[beeboah]

ok, to answer both of you I didn't want to disclose my reasoning because I have done that many a time on legal forums (not here) only to have my reasoning shot down before I could even get the facts....

has really put me on the defensive....

My new answer would tie into what ref said.

I have lost my job a few times and was unable to pay child support.

I didn't know how to ask for a modification and was highly deterred by the Department of Revenue when I asked.

I was also afraid that by the time I achieved the modification I would be making twice as much as the amount on which the initial child support was based...effectively doubling my payment by simply asking for a break.

I also fell into arrears between the time that our physical seperation transpired and when the judge actually issued the divorce (13 months)

I hate to say it, but even my lawyer didn't tell me that I needed to pay support during that time and that it would be back dated if I didn't.

Further to this, the ex lied to the DOR by saying that I never payed her money directly and for the purpose of child support.

(I did but just a few hundred bucks...still a lie on the ex's behalf")

My reasoning to the judge:

1) several job losses
2) I am presently paying
3) Revoked US passport due to arrears (could create visitation interference if I take the wrong airline)
4) Marks on credit report (inhibit my overall financial ability and effectively ability to pay)

[cinb85]

AND have you been paying the full amount.

Sorry, but only one of your reasons seems valid to me.  Please don't take offense, but since I don't know you personally, I have to go with my gut instinct.

My ex would tell the judge all of those same things to get the arrears wiped out, except for the "I am presently paying" because he is not paying and never really has (in 14 years).   The few (and I truly mean few) times that my ex "could" tell the judge that he has been paying, it would only be in the amount of $10/week (his CS payment is $68/week).  He has NEVER paid the full amount!

Sorry, but I don't think that you have a case.  Is the arrears amount huge????  Maybe you could get a part-time job to help pay it off.
I know that it's not easy.  When my daughter was a baby, I worked 3 jobs just to keep up with my bills.  You do what you have to do!

[beeboah]

May I ask you what "instinct" has to do with anything?

That is the problem with getting advice sometimes. It seems that everyone has to judge others with emotions related to their own personal problems.

It is a crime to sign a document and tell a governmental body that you have not received funds directly when you have.

My reasons may not be the "best" in your eyes or perhaps anyone elses, but if permissable I am sure that this would open the judges' eyes wide.

As Ref said, I don't have a case but not due to the validity or invalidity of my reasons.

That is why I usually refrain from talking about my reasoning for proceeding with legal matters.

What your ex would do has absolutely nothing to do with me or my situation.

I have payed for most of the 4 years that this rediculous order has been popped against me. I have payed the full amount during this time period.

Rediculous in that I have to pay someone else to take my child away from me.

I am not going to get a part time job so that my child support will increase when the money hungry ex wants to get her nails done and go out to eat with. (This is what she tells me she does with the money BTW)

Maybe I could "CON" the CP into forgiving my arrears? She had no problem "CONNING" the judge into believing that I was a bad person and getting an Ex Parte Motion against me without my presence.

Yet, no mention was ever made of her chronic life-threatening STD or her domestic violence record to the court.

Question has been answered, I am not going to waste any more time on this thread.

[cinb85]

By "gut instinct", I meant "in my opinion".  I don't know you personally, so my answer was based on your reasons.  The only one that I thought (again, just my opinion) was reasonable was that you are paying!

I know what you mean about working a part-time job.  I didn't like doing it either.  And because they took all THREE incomes into account when deciding what the CS would be, my ex's CS was lowered significantly.  But, I worked three jobs to keep my bills paid and to keep a roof over our heads.  

I KNOW that there are many NCPs out there who are honestly trying to do their best to support their children in every way.  You sound like you are probably one of those NCPs, but I am just trying to be honest with you.  I really don't think that the judge is going to forgive the arrears based on your reasons.  I don't think that it's right that your ex gets her nails done and goes out to eat if she keeps telling you that she needs the child support increased.  I can assure that I am not that kind of CP.  My daughter definitely comes first.  Alot of my clothes are hand-me-downs from my sister and when I HAVE to buy something for myself, it is usually from Walmart or Kmart.  I have had my nails done a total of TWO times in my lifetime and both times were for a family wedding (a family member paid for it).  I know many CPs like your ex and it's not right.  I hope that you can resolve this problem.

Sorry if my advice upset you.  That was not my intention.

[jolawanda]

read all the *rules* of his posts though otherwise, he won't answer you. He is very smart


I don't think you have a chance in any family court of a judge just erasing arrearages. Hell, we had / have a 10K error in the CP's favor and will never get it straightened out and now she has gotten a large amount of money due to our refinancing of our house.

It's all pretty sucky but, it's reality

[cinb85]

Good Ole NJ!!!  They screw up and don't care who it affects!!!!!

Sorry to hear that.  

Hope things are good with you otherwise!!!

[jolawanda]

didn't do the right thing that is for sure! We are getting our crap together to snap another one off the payroll though. Another 23 year *adult Child* (jola pewking) gets snapped off!

;)

[cinb85]

why are you still paying if they are 23 years old???

[beeboah]

its ok, just wondering why you were going after my reasoning if they don't matter anyways....

And anyways I'd be curious to see why you don't think that my reasons are invalid...? (not like it matters)

How is that possible? especially the ex lying about receiving money directly from me to get more money....

Passport issue is REAL, let me tell you, I got trapped overseas due to that garbage. WHILE PAYING CHILD SUPPORT!

[beeboah]

thank you for this advice...I don't think that I have a chance either based on lack of CP "interest"..and that seems to be an impassible requirement..

[cinb85]

They matter to the Judge.

It is just my opinion about your reasons.  I don't feel that the Judge will erase the arrears due to your reasons.  I'm not saying that you reasons aren't true.   It is also my opinion that you can solve some of these problems by getting a part-time job to help pay some of the arrears.  I know that it's not what you would like to do.  I didn't enjoy working 3 jobs when our daughter was a baby.  I would have to drag her around with me from job to job.  It wasn't easy, but it's what I HAD to do to pay the bills because my ex wasn't willing to help out at all.

Seems to me that your ex doesn't sound like she is willing to help out either.  Some things you just can't change.

Good Luck.  I hope that things work out for you!

[beeboah]

The judge CANNOT erase the arrears it seems, so the reasons dont matter at all. Unless the CP changes their mind.

IF the judge could get involved, I don't understand why FRAUD would not an issue. BUT IT SEEMS THAT HE CANNOT.

If I get a part time job, I run a HIGH risk that the ex will tell the system that I am making more money thereby increasing my child support and negating the point of getting the arrears down in the first place.

That would make no sense, and not be conducive to reducing a financial obligation. (Because legally that is what it is)

In fact, my payments could go up for those hard hours worked at McDonalds and further deduct from my time with my present family and child.

Totally disagree

[beeboah]

WOW

[catherine]

If you are dealing with the CSE in FL - they will not even forgive arrears if the CP agrees to it.  CSE in FL says the money is for the CHILDREN and therefore they will collect on the children's behalf, regardless of what the parents want.

[Stirling]

that the more CS CSE collects the more they receive in federal matching funds.  They are not likely to give up that free money by forgiving arrears.

[beeboah]

Thank you for the answers.

[olanna]

Just don't expect that this would happen. If the shoe was on the other foot, I am sure you wouldn't think this was OK.

Why don't you do something a bit different? Why not tell the judge when you child is college aged that you will cover college costs in return for the arrears being wiped out?

[beeboah]

You are sure? Sorry, but you don't know me.

Actually, I would forgive the arrears as I am not greedy like the CP.

In fact, I would not have let things get this far by lying to the court as the CP did.

I think that I will just take the CP to court for lying about the total amount of money received.

In fact, I will advise her that I have substantiation of her lies "her signature with a big 0 next to it".

That should persuade her to forgive the arrears.

As Ref has said, there is no need to tell the judge anything. Nothing can be done without the CP.

So why say anything at all, or even pay the money to file?

[jolawanda]

did not have Mr. Jola's better interest at hand or future.....

And cause NJ says so.....


Makes me PEWK! Just pewk cinB

[olanna]

But I know you posted that you didn't want it to go to court because you would pay more...so you are lying, too. (Yep, with holding info is lying by ommision).  You sound just as greedy to me as you say your ex is.

Another thing, do you really think your logic would hold water in court? Because if it could, this board wouldn't exist.

[MafiaMom]

Things CAN be done without the cp. If you have the proof you claim you do, then asking for a review of the arrears MAY help to clear this up.

HOWEVER, if you did not write "for child support" on those checks you gave her...or you did not have her sign a receipt stating it was FOR child support and the checks were for an amount that DIFFERS from the cs amount, then you are SOL.

If payments are not sent thru the court, they cannot credit your account. And quite frankly, any money given directly to the CP is considered a "gift" unless it is documented that it is cs. My brother used to give his ex advances when she was broke and asked him for some money. He was smart, and he'd have her sign a receipt stating it was for cs. He'd send that to the court, and they'd deduct it from his account.

As far as the amount you were in arrears between the time you filed and the time the order was set...you will NOT get rid of those just because you claim ignorance. It's your responsibility as a father to make sure you are helping your ex support your child/ren. Just because an amount wasn't set yet is no reason to not pay. You should have paid SOMETHING. And if those payments you speak of (where she wrote the big ZERO next to her signature) were for that, and you have proof that you and her BOTH were aware that's what it was for, then an administrative review with the accountant on your case COULD clear things up.

But if you didn't CYA, then no...it won't work unless she agrees.

I think you are way too angry, bitter, and emotional to deal with this issue yourself. You aren't being reasonable. You are like MANY people I see who feel they were wronged and go on a rampage without using their head, but flying on emotion only. You'll get nowhere fast doing that. Take some time to settle down before you even begin to see if this can be fixed.

[beeboah]

I posted that I choose not to go to court because I didn't want to pay the filing fee. That is a choice, not a lie via omission.

How is that a lie?

This is just a subjective matter of BIAS on your own behalf.

You twist words to make them meet that BIAS.

I want my arrears forgiven, and I am now confident that I have figured a way to get them back legally.

I am sure that my "evidence" would hold up in court as opposed to what you conveniently define as "logic".

Nice talking to you!

[beeboah]

The payments of child support were paid directly to the ex and clearly state on the face of the check what they were for the purpose of child support.

I am not too bitter to deal with the issue myself. As a matter of fact, I was able to take a matter concerning visitation to court PRO SE and obtain visitation time with my child.

I am as capable as following law as the next guy.

However, just like anyone else, I think that some of them are unfair.

The ex is going to agree to this. I keep records of everything.

[MafiaMom]

different when it comes to the ease of things going your way. Courts generally won't DENY visitation time, and try to allow the most parenting time possible in many cases. But they are tougher and more strict regarding cs.

It's not deserving of a medal to go pro se and win. People do it every day, and many more times than you have, I'm sure. In fact, some of the people giving you advice lately have done just that...yet you are being angry and discounting the advice you are being given. I've done it myself on COUNTLESS occassions. When I thought I "had it in the bag" and lost, it was a blow to me. It happens. You don't always win, just because you won once, and just because YOU think you SHOULD. It all depends on what side of the bed the judge got up on that morning, or what kind of a hair day she's having.

If you deal with your ex in the manner you deal with these posters, it's no wonder she won't agree. Try using a little honey instead of all that vinegar.

[olanna]

Wonder how often he sees this kid....

[olanna]

You don't need any advice from anyone....and you appear to just want to argue.

Best to you....

Olanna

[beeboah]

The only time I get anything done with the ex is to be assertive.

Based on personal experience.

I am fully aware that issues of CS and Visitation are legally different, but they are not different in reality.

If I don't pay my CS, I can go to jail or my driver's license thereby losing my ability to visit my child. If I don't have enough money to pay CS, I probably don't have a job. I still would not be able to visit my child.

My taking steps to stop the visitation interference initiated by my es is in fact worthy of a medal. I got out of my slump, ignored the intimidation, and decided to do something about it.

I can't say the same for the majority of NCP's who waste too much time listening to others who say that we can't do something about it.

It is something to be proud of.

[beeboah]

Not often enough, but you are damn right.

That is why I am here to do something about it. Even if it is done in increments or by using my God given intelligence to slowly take back my child and my finances.

Some people (even criminals like the CP which has been discussed) are given a child by default. I guess that in the long run, they will be less prepared for what life really dishes out for an NCP.

This experience has made me far stronger, not weaker.

If bitterness drives me to excel, then so be it!!

Many CP's need not be bitter, they are given your child and your money.

[beeboah]

I don't have it all figured out, but if you don't want to argue then maybe you should ask yourself the same question. There again, I got one issue figured out while "arguing" with you. I am going to use the fact that my ex fraudulently signed a document stating that she received $0 from me as leverage for her to forgive those arrears.

If not, then I will go see the judge.

Very simple.

Thank you!

[jilly]

is called extortion.  Judges tend to frown on that sort of thing.

You've been given excellent advice to discuss the issue of forgiving arrears with Socrateaser, who is an attorney and offers legal advice for FREE yet I don't see that you've posted this question to him.

You say you want LEGAL advice. None of us here are attorneys so all you're going to get is an opinion based on personal experience.  You're directed to someone on this board who IS and attorney but you won't use his services.

I would love to hear what he would tell you about your plan to strong arm your ex on the arrears!  LOL

[beeboah]

stalking. What are you stalking me for anyways?

Don't you have a life? I will approach Socrateaser when the time is right for me, not you.

Do you mean an opinion "based" or rather, an opinion "biased".

I am sure that the judge will frown on my course of action, whatever you call it.

As if the ex does not do whatever she wants.....sure keep dreaming.

It is only a "crime" when the NCP proceeds as they need to.

Some CP's (specifically my ex) takes great pride in holding others' feet to the fire.

Well it is my turn to hold her feet to the fire. Then it will be time for my custody battle.

Not going to be deterred by you or anyone else.

Cheers

[Ref]

The people on this board have genuinely tried to help beeboah, especially olanna and cinb85. From following this thread it seems to me that this person has attacked the very people that were trying to offer help. This person doesn't seem to recognize the fact that ALMOST ALL of us have gone through as much pain as she/he has. She/he doesn't realize that some of us have not seen our children in months. Some on this board have been investigated because our ex's have falsely accused us of molesting or beating our children. Some of us are so poor that we get to watch our youngest children go without so that our first born can wear Abercrombie.

People on this board are here because they battle with the need to maintain their own sense of honesty and dignity while not allowing the bitter and angry ex to trample all over them and their kids. We want to be the person that their children will one day look to as a moral compass even though it rips us apart on a daily basis. Beeboah has no place in playing the superiority role here. She/he has no pace in trying to tell a community of people like us that "Some CP's (sic) takes (sic) great pride in holding others' feet to the fire". Forgive me but DUHHHHHHHH!

We have won our court cases too but we have lost them as well. However, many of us follow the rule of being a good parent by being a good example.

We have seen people like beeboah on this board before, people who lash out at the advice that they requested. We have seen people who can not carry a conversation with the rest of us plebeians because they have some unearned superiority complex. We have seen people who insist on "my way or the highway" behaviors. Usually they ARE CPs trying to bully their way through our rights. Sometimes we call them Trolls. The only difference is that she/he is on our side of the fence in custody but, and I will only speak for myself, not on my side of the fence in decency.

I have no problem helping you out, beeboah, because I think it is right to help people when they are in need, even if they are a-holes.

Best wishes to all
Ref

[jilly]

Dude is seriously deranged and apparently needs an eye examine as well since there were no typos in my post.  I pray for the sake of the child this deranged person doesn't get any kind of custody.  That would be the TRUE crime here.

[beeboah]

I was referring to your "bias" as opposed to any "basis".
I was not referring to any misspelling in your post. However if you insist, it would be an "examination" not an "examine" that YOU need to attend if you think that a person arrested for domestic violence should be the custodial parent.

[beeboah]

If you feel that I am an a$$hole, I don't want your help. I have earned my way, and I don't need anyone to pay my fare. (Wish that I could say this for the CP) I made the world aware of my choice to hold the CP's feet to the fire because see it or not (DUHHHH as you put it) there are some posters who blatantly ignore that the CP has committed fraud, violent crimes etc, and instead focus negatively yet quite purposefully on one of my undying choices to get my damn money back (which is one of the building blocks to getting my child back).

I don't need to continue this thread. If it is not worthy, useful, or accurate, then the moderator will delete it.

If you continue to post to this thread, you may consider it a victory on your behalf.

However, the real victory will transpire when I move forward, in a court of law.

You can a$$ume that I will "lose", or even propagate this potential loss by trying to naysay this post. Some of you DO hope that I lose.  However, that just might not be the case. It probably won't be the case.

If the thread remains, then it will be useful for those who do a search and are intent and undettered in using legal procedure for their own and accordingly for their childs' benefit.

If it is deleted, well then my "opinion" that censorship has occurred would be just as worthy as anyone elses.

There are plenty of NCP's who are inspired and I am one of them. It is my turn to take a "whatever it takes attitude", just as it was ok for the ex to snap her fingers and snatch my child with lies.

To all of the people who agree with me and have emailed me privately about this, hats off. Hopefully you will say what is on your mind to the rest of the world and not worry about attempts to put your flames out because I for one certainly am not.

This is my last post on this board, consider that your only victory. Just as my credibility will indicate that I will no longer waste time on this post, trust that I will take the CP to task.

Have a nice time chalking it up. You are not the only ones on the planet, or "your planet" I should say.

I have a motion to file.

[cinb85]

nm

[MafiaMom]

***I am fully aware that issues of CS and Visitation are legally different, but they are not different in reality.***

No...they are NOT different in reality. One is TIME, one is MONEY.

***If I don't have enough money to pay CS, I probably don't have a job. I still would not be able to visit my child.***

Bull...any GOOD parent would do whatever was necessary to see their child. NOTHING could keep me from my son. And if I didn't have a JOB to support him, I'd do whatever I could to GET one, or to find a way to support him without resorting to state aid. I've been there, done that.

Ref is right. We've seen your sort before. And YOU are more worthy of the word "troll" than ANY poster who has attempted to give you solid advice.

[MYSONSDAD]

This person showed up on the Fathers Issues forum. Had many tell him to post to SOC, he never did....

"Children learn what they live"

[cinb85]

but he didn't like what I had to say!  I don't think that he understands how these boards work.  Seems to me like he only wants legal advice, not people's opinions and advice.  

[jolawanda]

boards and bitching at people and complaining that people aren't answering your questions in the manner you demand. Or if they ask a question, you are complaining it's none of their business or has nothing to do with they reply they may give.

Act that way in front a judge and see how quick you get shot down.

So, why haven't you gone over and asked SOC the legal questions you want to have answers to.???? HMMM?????

[jolawanda]

you claim that censorship might take place HERE?
you are a doopeyeaish (sp?)

sure, sure you put that CP to task....you are so shortsided, that it aiint the CP you demand to task....it's the FAMILY COURT..... sure sure you claim you have been successful at prose  representation but, yet you clearly cannot speak in law legaleeze if it saved your life.

I have talked to and been friends w/ CinB for about 10 years now.....her ????? to YOU are logical and warranted.

why don't you post just what NOTICES of motion you have won?


Let's ask this: just how many copies of a notice of motion are *you* required to file when filing such notices? And, how are you to mail them?

Let's just see how YOU really know how to handle yourself in family court?
That is basic family court 101......how many copies?

[MYSONSDAD]

Let's see how he/she will do before the judge. We won't hear from him after that. Bet he won't come back to post the results.

Just like a bad dream, coming back when you least expect it. Said he was thru with us, ya, right....

This person is doing this for entertainment purposes. We all need to turn him off.

http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

"Children learn what they live"

[cinb85]

Hopefully it will continue for many more years!!!!

Thanks Jola!

[MafiaMom]

If you think you will win, hands down. If only you knew the details of my brother's case, you'd know...but I know if I try to post them, you'll naysay them, so what's the point?

Let's just say that your thinking you can get custody easily is an illusion. If my bro couldn't get it when his ex 1). has been arrested for domestic violence on SEVERAL occassions; 2). my nephew was late for school (PM Kindergarten, even) in excess of 50 times in one school year; 3). She's an alcoholic; 4). she's tried to commit suicide 3 times that we have proof of, probable more; 5). My nephew was left alone for long periods of time at an early age; 6). She has tried to keep my nephew from my bro, and even "disappeared" for a period of 6 months; 7). HER OWN FAMILY approached my bro to tell him that home was not a safe place, and he should get his son out of there...they even testified at trial.

I could go on and on...but that would only prove to blow your illusions.

So you do what you will. Keep your illusions. Keep thinking the courts are "logical" or that they work in the "best interest of the child."