Fathers rights When no custody is established and mother wont let me see the child

[imagin2005]

Here's my situation.Its lengthy.My child is now 7.Me and the mother have been split since the child was 1.She kept switching phone numbers and moving in the past few years and i have not been able to find them.Recently i did.She let me see my son but told him i was a friend instead of his father.Apparently she remarried and told our son that his father is her husband.Anyway i went along with her telling him that so i could see him.I have been paying my child support on time the past few years.I dont owe anything.I recently moed from pa to florida and since then she still wont tell him nore put him on the phone.I have called at least 4 times a month and asked her to speak with him.She declines saying that she doesnt want to tell him i am his father because he thinks that her new husband is.Froom out of state its kinda hard to go to her house right now.Anyway ive asked her to send me copies of his report cards..she wont.I dont have his ss # to gain access to medical records.Then recently she sent me medical bills over $1000.00.There was two of them.I asked her what they were for and she told from a sledding accident in 2005.The bills are both from july 4th 2005.So first im wondering why doesnt he have insurance on him?Then im wondering how could a child get into a sledding accident in july in pa.Thats impossible.So i asked her if he has insurance..she said yes.But it turns out she doesnt have any kind of insurance on him and her and her husband are not working.My insurance does not go out of state.So now we are going thru domestci relations to find out what is going on.Well in the process she takes me for more money.In the hearing says loudly that she still hasnt told my son who i am and isnt going to.Then tells me and them she doesnt have insurance on him.They are now taking her for contempt for not carrying insurance because she is 100 percent liable according to our court order.Her and her husband have not been working for awhile.They also have another child of theirs living in the house with them.I have no idea how these ppl live besides the support i pay for my son.Domestic relations appreanly doesnt see a problem.they just keep taking me for more and more money.I still dont know why my son was in the hospital and why she is hidiing it.Her husband has an abusibe background which scares me.And now apparenlty she is taking me for full custody.So all this time nooone has custody.I haev talked to lawyers and they have told me because my son thinks her husband is his father the only thing i would get is SUPERVISED VISITATION and phone contact maybe once a month.Still in the process she wont tell me anything about my son.Ihave no idea how he is or what school he is going to..why he was in the hospital.If he has medical needs.Anything.So basically DR has no problem having me pay for her family and my son while i told them i cant afford it because i just moved into a higher cost of living area.I am married and have a disabled step son living with me now.And i have been supporting my family is all aspect(my son who doesnt even know me and my family at home).but they now raised it to 600 dollars a month..which is 300 more then i was already paying ..i cant afford it and they dont care.So now i will be forced to probbaly move out of state again to afford my rent.I moved to fl because my job relocated me and im making more money..but in the same hand my rent doubled and so did my expenses.Can anyone help on this situation with rights and how i can get my son to know me..and how this is even legal.Thanks:(

[mistoffolees]

You need another attorney. Or go to legal aid. Or anyone except your current attorney. In fact, if what you're saying is true, then you could probably file a complaint against him to the State Bar Association.

Sue for custody on the basis of parental alienation. What she is doing could easily cost her custody. At the very least, the statement that you can't get rights because she told the kid that someone else is the father is nonsense. And the claim that you'll have only supervised visitation is even worse.

There are several issues:
1. If you were not married, you'll probably have to prove paternity. Sue for custody and a patenrity test.

2. Check with your attorney, but I don't htink that you should be paying her any money. If you do, ask your attorney if you can submit it through him rather than directly to protect yourself. If you prove paternity, she can easily claim that you owe her 6 years of child support - and that all the money you gave her was a gift. You could easily end up with 6 years worth of arrears.

3. You probably want to check your attitude. What you described is not evidence of a bias against fathers. It is simply the fact that she acted first and has had custody and you let it go for 6 years without enforcing your rights. If the shoes were on the other foot, the same thing would have happened.


Finally, I'm assuming that there's nothing else you haven't told us. For example, if you have already taken a paternity test and the boy is not your biological son, your situation is much weaker.

[imagin2005]

Well i already know he is mine.WE had parentity done when he was born so they have been taking me for child support.Also no one has custody she never went for it and neither did  i.Ive talked to a bunch of lawyers in pa and they all pretty much told me the same.plus i didnt have the money at that time.Its like 300 dollars to file for cusody in pa then lawyers fees on top of it.Thanks

[Jade]

>Well i already know he is mine.WE had parentity done when he
>was born so they have been taking me for child support.Also no
>one has custody she never went for it and neither did  i.Ive
>talked to a bunch of lawyers in pa and they all pretty much
>told me the same.plus i didnt have the money at that time.Its
>like 300 dollars to file for cusody in pa then lawyers fees on
>top of it.Thanks


Someone does have custody.  And you have been paying child support to her.  

[imagin2005]

noone has legal custody.She has physical custody because a custody has never been established in a court.So should i file for visitation then?or partial custody? a lawyer said my chances of getting joint or partial are really slim being that he doesnt know me because she has him beleiving that her husband is daddy.

[mistoffolees]

>Well i already know he is mine.WE had parentity done when he
>was born so they have been taking me for child support.Also no
>one has custody she never went for it and neither did  i.Ive
>talked to a bunch of lawyers in pa and they all pretty much
>told me the same.plus i didnt have the money at that time.Its
>like 300 dollars to file for cusody in pa then lawyers fees on
>top of it.Thanks


Someone's lying to you. If you've been established as the father, there's no way in the world she can get away with telling the kid that someone else is the father - and then use it as an excuse to keep you away.

You need to get a real lawyer.

THEN you need to file for legal custody on grounds of parental alienation syndrome and anything else your attorney can think of.

[imagin2005]

Thanks for the help..ill be calling new lawyers tomorrow..i have read on parental alienation syndrome and for some reason it isnt very successful in pa..but it is a good thought..i think just alone with them doing psyc evals will help too..because apparently the mother has told me that he is an emotional child..and nce they ask him about his father ..it will bad on her side...this whole sitaution throws me through a loop..i still cannot understand how i have been mislead for so long and how every person i have talked to about this has told me they dont understand how she gets away with it...she walked into domestic relations the other day n our court hearing(i was teleconferencing bc of living out of state)and told me on the phone right in front of the case worker that she still hasnt told him im his father and that she isnt goint o..and is going to take me for full custody...the case worker didnt say anything but based my child support off my income and uped to 300 dollars a month..even with her being responsible for medical and having contempt charges on her right now from the for not providing our son with medical insurance apparenlty for the past 3 years or so...i swear the whole area she lives in  just looks at me like a paycheck..she straight out said to them she isnt working neither is her husband..and she cannot afford stuff for the child..so instead of them pulling our son out of the house being that she isnt providing..they just want me to pay the money to her so she can use it whereever..because obviously it aint going towards his medical...because she has no insurance and sent me those bills?this totally boggles my mind

[janM]

If you were not married, she has custody, physical and legal. You would have to prove her unfit to have that changed, although this degree of alienation one would think could overturn it. Doesn't always work that way.

You need to file for custody though, and settle if need be for at least joint legal custody, and ask for a period of short visits for you and your son to get to know each other. Supervised, if need be, by a third party for a while. You may want to ask that he see a counsellor to deal with the deceit.

And...it doesn't matter if she (and hubby) can't support him. They will just expect you to take up the slack. Sad but true.

[williaer]

>every person i have talked to about this has told me they dont understand how she gets away with it...


ummm, you've let her.


>she walked into domestic relations the other day n our court hearing(i was teleconferencing bc of living out of state)and told me on the phone right in front of the case worker that she still hasnt told him im his father and that she isnt goint o..and is going to take me for full custody...the case worker didnt say anything

child support and visitation are two seperate things- the case manager doesn't represent anything but the interest of the state in getting the most $$$$ they can out of you. They DO NOT care what she does with it- so long as your child is fed and clothed- they DO NOT core if she tells the boy George Bush is his dad...it doens't matter to anyone but you, her, her husband and the kid. A judge can not MAKE her tell him anything- that's physically impossible. What a judge can do is ALLOW you to tell him, bu giving you parenting time that is enforceable by a court order.

 >but based my child support off my income
That's what child support will always be based off of- get used to it. If you've been paying $300 for 7 years and are not responsible for any part of the medical- then count your lucky stars.


>she straight out said to them she isnt working neither is her husband..and she cannot afford stuff for the child

She doesn't HAVE to work- you are the one court ordered to pay money- not her. Obvioulsy the child's basic needs are being met- since he isn't in the custody of children's services...right?


>so instead of them pulling our son out of the house being that she isnt providing..they just want me to pay the money to her so she can use it whereever..

You would be hard pressed to find a court that is going to turn a kids world upside down because a non-custodial parent that the child doesn't know would like for them to....and yes, she can spend it any way she sees fit- sucks, but reality.

>..because obviously it aint going towards his medical

I can't figure out why this one bothers you so much- since you are not legally obligated to pay it. She can send you her electric bill too- you would just ignore it the same way you did the medical, right?

I hope this doesn't come off as too harsh- but being a step-mom myself and living on both ends of this- you have to deal with some things that are your reality right now. You haven't been around the child- she has- she will tell him whatever she wants- you may not like it- but it is her right to say whatever she wants in her household. It may not be "right"- but I know very few NCP's who have the time or money it takes to really get a CP punished with contempt.

Let the court work for you- take what they give you and build on it. You have to crawl before you walk with these things. Too many parents- loving , good parents like it seems you are- get crushed by trying to start out running.

[sherrie ohio]

My advice to you is to write an ask for the following at your next hearing...
A short period of sup.visitation,then every other sunday- or- saturday for a set period of time un-sup.
Then every other weekend.Example:Friday 5:00 p.m. to Sunday 5:00 p.m.
 Also her updateing you  on your child's current school records/grades and health issues now and keep giveing you current info.
There isn't much you can do about her haveing the child call her husband Dad,my husband has dealt with this sense finding out their child was his daughter.For several years this has went on through new husbands and boyfriends,and the court only see's things from her veiw.
Even thou my husband is in the child's life on a weekly basies(weekends) and attends alot of the school funtions.
Their only concern is to make sure she get's her check from my husband so the can pay her less state welfare.(And yes he is paid in full when it comes to support)
I wish you luck in your attempt to get to know your child.I truely feel for what your going through.

[imagin2005]

Thank u to each and every one of u that responded.yeah i know its a tricky sitaution and where i am concerned to the person about the medical..i have tried to get him on my medical.Her and Dr will not give me his ss# to get him on it.I have taken every attempt to help out..they are just seeing dollars signs not a person.Anyway..I can understand that she does not work..but she can also be getting assitance from the government.Im not saying i would help her out.My child support is paid in full..comes out of my check..im not a deadbeat dad.I provide past my means right now..trust me.And once again no one has legal custody.Im in pursuit of that now.It wil cost a lot for a lawyer but i dont care.I just dont understand how my life suffers and i dont even get to see my child.i just got married last year..me and my wife are trying to have kids and start a family.I have been providing for my family at home and for my son in another state...If drs takes all my money to give to her because she isnt trying to provide for him..then i cant even make a new family..in turn ..she has a 2 yr old at home with her new husband..and doesnt even work.I understand that she doesnt have to work.But she can further her family..not support any of them.i have no idea how they are living.Noone in the house works.Drs doesnt ask her how she pays her rent of how the child is taken care of.Im sorry but for sitautions like thee because she is not working..she can be getting government help..thats not taking away from another household in retuen..I dont understand why my life should be put on hold and in return im paying for her..her husband ..her other child and mine.I have no problem paying for my child.i would have no problem bringing him here to live with me.Every woman i know..tells there kids who there father is unless certaiin circumstances.Even if they are not in their life.And yes i should have pursued this a while ago and did try.I was always working ..and couldnt afford a lawyer..and yes they are based off income..u will not get a pro bono  lawyer unless u are not making money or if u are not making decent money.Not only that but i have relocated with a job in a higher cost fo living area...for a job..not for my own reasons..to provide for my family...to pay my support..i always have been workign and paying my support..but they base it off pa child support calcualtor instead of here because she lives there..is there anyway to get my case switched here..so they would base it off my cost of living..And how do u find out how her family is getting supported...they pay 700 dollars a month..my support order is only for 580 a month..how do they come up with rest..if it is not guaranteed..and if neither or working...im seriously concerned because she keeps saying she cannot afford things for him..in pa a 3 bedrooom house goes for usually about 550 a month..she is paying 700 plus utilities..how can i get proof of if she is paying it or how..once again just to recap...i am paying my support and have no problem with it..but she is not a single mother...she is married with another child....that was her chose..and they both sit back not work..and possibly not provide for either child..children and youth wont do anything either..how do i know there isnt illegal activity going on and thats how they get money to pay their bills..i mean come on..how can u raise a family of 4 ...without working but yet u dont even apply for medical or food stamps or any of that...if u have it so u dont need to ..then what can possibly be going on in that house and where is the rest of the income coming from..that im not paying ..where does the utilities come from and the remainder of the rent...or food..or clothing..any of it..u would think drs or children services would be interested at least...and yes some ppl may get offended by this and i would hope not..im not telling ppl to go on welfare and not get support..what im saying it..how does someone live outside of their means..have another child in the process..and im the one paying for all that and in return wont be able to afford a family of my own..how is that fair..and cant even see my son..i have never been arrrrested for anything..never..im not an abusive person..im stating all facts here..

[sherrie ohio]

I cant give you alot of advice but let you know there are other's out there dealing with situations like your own.All I can say is keeping trying,at least then you can say you never gave up.
My husband,one other father and the state welfare are what supports his EX's home.
Neither her or the current man work, well current hubby only worked one month out of the year to collect a tax return.If you can call that working.And they have a nicer home then us.
My husband is  current on his support and has been for years.The only time she want's him around is for the support,any extra's he will buy. And to take their child if she has plan's for the weekend.
He has dealt  with his EX haveing their daughter call the current man Daddy for year's,while he's been called by his frist name or Daddy (.........).She has always made sure he took third seet in their daughters life.
He has faught for years with BM over every little chance to be in the child's life and has gained some ground.We are still dealing with her haveing the child calling current hubby Dad to ,but in secret when her real Dad isn't around.They slip up every once in awhile and call him Dad to her in front of my husband.
The school didn't even know my husband was her father till we went to a school function and she was standing with us when her teacher came walking up.They thought current hubby was her DAD.The cunfusion and surprise was apparent to see on their faces.One even stated she thought the other guy was her father.My husband wasn't on any school forms.
We have dealt with phone blocks,number changes and her even moveing without telling us.And when he would call or fine them she would act all offend,like he was in the rong.
She has kept her away from him when she was little and made the claim in court when my husband whould drag her there that their daughter didn't know him.BEcause she kept them apart.So a shedule was set up to let their daughter have a period of getting to know him before the weekend visit's started,much like the one I posted before.
Sup.viset's for a month,then un.sup. saturday's for a few month's then weekend's.We made the mistake of not getting the doctor/school thing token care of at the time,don't make that mistake.Also asked to be informed of any special event's school,church ect.
And of any serious illness / injury.
I also understand what your talking about the system don't care if you the father have a family or not.We live pay check to pay check,while they are buying new car's etc.
The state only care's about you the father paying so they can give them less welfare.
Just keep fighting for your right's and find out what info you can to help in your attemps to see him.Gather any proof you can no matter how small it seems and wright all contact down between you,her,current hubby and your child.
Best of luck......

[williaer]

A couple of things. First- can you break your posts up into paragraphs, they are very hard to read.

Why are you wanting to put the child on your medical? If you aren't court ordered to do it and you aren't responsible for that cost- why push it?

I doubt there is any way to get it changed if the obligee (ex-gf) and child live in PA. They aren't going to want to lose those federal matching dollars.

your child support obligation will NOT go down if she applies for public assistance, they will simply divert the child support payments back into the "welfare" fund and only give her a little portion of it.

Although I live in a household that pays- so believe me, I understand- $580 for one child really isn't that astronomical. We used to pay $575 for one and $333 for the other each month.

I guess it bothers me a little that you really want her on public assistance- because then, quite frankly, I'm paying for it- just like every other tax payer and I don't want your ex and her husband as my burden either.

It is none of your business or the courts business how they pay their bills, so long as they are paid and they aren't caught doing anything illegal. Once they are caught- then it's everyones business.

I think you've got to step back and take a deep breath. You are wanting too much control over something you can't ever control- another adult. I know it's hard and it sounds like you are doing this for all the right reasons- but you MUST simmer down a bit and go through the due process. There are laws in place that will work for you- if you take it once step at a time. Like other have said- what's important is that you never stop trying.