New here, multiple questions of course

[Father of three]

Per the directions on the home page, here I am posting.  Rather than post the assortment of questions in the various sections, I'll start here.  I don't think it's possible to be brief and answer likely questions at the same time.  Thanks in advance, for your patience and assistance.

The basics:  St. Louis County, Missouri.  Pro Se - What I'd like: File for temporary visitation, file to have paternity established, file parenting plan seeking primary physical custody.  I've attempted to find someone experienced in Family Law in St. Louis County to guide me in a Pro Se capacity, free or very cheaply or barter (I'm highly skilled in residential repair and remodeling....anyone?), and have had no luck thus far.  I will submit gibbberish if I have to, in an attempt to be a father to this child.  I would much prefer to know what to file, what order, what needs to be filed first, together, last;  the minimal information I should provide beyond what RSMO states to get started.

I have already prepared a draft Petition for Temporary Order of Visitation. I'm assuming I should go ahead and file whatever the request would be to have paternity established, and from what I've read submit a proposed parenting plan with that.

More Details:  I simply can't afford legal help now, or soon.  Period.  I don't seem to qualify for low cost/free help.  I had a child with my live-together girlfriend.  Hopsitals here apparently no longer add the fathers information, if unmarried, to the information provided to the Vital Statistics Bureau for the Birth Certificate.  I never imagined she'd refuse me our son, and completing the affidavit was simply a procrastination.  We seperated, she went to her mother's.  I continued seeing the child for two months, and then was denied visitation (approximately two more months).  I continued politely hammering away that this was unacceptable.  FINALLY, she purpotedely hired an attorney (according to her mother, the ex-girlfriend has not communicated with me), and I would again be allowed to see our son,  at their residence, while the ex- was work, in the prescence of her stepfather and mother.  After the conclusion of the third visit, I was unable to deter a discussion with her mother ( I tried to refuse discussion five times prior to running my trap, and even then I was very controlled) that ended in mother requesting I leave.  I have not heard from the CP or any representative of hers since.  I attempted to have paternity established with a State agency.  They alleged to have recieved a notification from the CP's attorney that she would not voluntarily establish paternity through them, and it would be handled through the courts.  Can't say I blame that move.  Anyway, having been nearly another two months since I was informed she had retained an attorney,  having made many attempts to elicit voluntary cooperation, and not coming close to reaching anything satisfactory, I think it's time to go to court.  Past due according to some people I talk with.

I am divorced. My wife and I handled the divorce with no attorney.  I see the two children from that marraige on a regular basis.  I am a great father.  I am not a threat, dangerous, or otherwise of unsound mind (according to myself, at least).  I have repeatedly requested information from the CP of the new child, and have received no explanation why she is restricting our son from me.  In this situation, for a long list of reasons, I truly beleive it is in the best of this child that I be the primary custodian.

[MixedBag]

Welcome!

There are articles on this site about doing stuff pro se that will help.

However, it's hard to give help on the other hand becasue none of us are attorneys and don't know the family court procedures in your particular state.

I'd also suggest contact the clerk of the family court and CSE department because they might already have forms for you to use to establish paternity which will be the first step.

Then file a motion for the parenting time or custody to be set.

and yes, do this sooner vs. later.

[Father of three]

I've found a great deal of useful information here, and am vigorously note-taking as I sort through what's here.  This is the most useful site I've found yet.  

Already applied with CSE here, CP refused cooperation, CSE is closing the case a dozen times faster than it was opened.  Can you believe the courts here haven't been very helpful?  If I ask what form they need submitted to begin a specific action, I'm informed that would be 'legal advice' and they can't give legal advice.  If I didn't think I'd be thrown out the building/arrested, I'd demand to speak to judge and attempt to explain how I'm looking for INFORMATION, not advice.   Apparently telling me what they NEED is the same as telling me what to do.  Semantics and rhetoric.  They have a job to do, and facilitating what may be in the possible best interest of a child is not it.  I'm still smiling though.  I have a beautiful new son, and this is temporary.

[Ref]

The people you are dealing with cannot help you in anyway besides giving you specific information. That is the rule and I am sure it is very frustrating that they can't help people when they need it.

One of the big problems I see is that you didn't know that before walking in and that means you have a lot to learn or you are going to make a series of the worst mistakes you could make.

I have attached a link to the rule of the court. http://www.stlouisco.com/circuitcourt/RulesofCourt.html

This will let you know some of the basics of how to do the dance you need to do in the courtroom.  It is not easy but this thing will drag on and on if you don't get the procedures right.

I also don't know what the law is there, but in Florida DH was required to pay 1/2 of his ex's legal fees. It would have been 100% but the judge knocked it down to 1/2 because BM was at fault. If you let it drag on you will just be spending money that would have been better spent on your own lawyer.

http://www.16thcircuit.org/Depts/dept_forms.asp?dept=DOM

It looks like Jackson County is better at information related to Pro Se. It is possible that with a copy and paste that these forms would be legally acceptable. Make sure if you do use another county form, that you read the county that your fighting in's related rule so that you can modify the form as you may need.

Anyway, I am an advocate for getting an attorney by selling your car, tv, paying bills with credit cards, begging family members... anything. You will not believe how many people come here wanting to be Pro se and saying they can't afford an attorney when they haven't even asked more than one if they will take payments. There are so many people here, an I am one of them, that came to this site to try to correct an error made at the begining of their situation because they were not thinking of the long term consequences of failing at the beginning.

Just some personal advice, if things are set in stone right now that you dont like related to the placement of your kids, you will have a next to impossible change at fixing it. By her having a lawyer and you goign Pro Se, you are already in the hole. Get a second mortgage if you have to and invest in this child's future by getting proper representation. It will save you money down the road by establishing a better child support deal and giving you more time with your kids.

My DH went to court for his divorce with a lawyer that might as well have been free. He did nothing and DH was all but Pro Se. He paid too much in CS (we calculated it and he agreed to higher than the state would have required). He was given "reasonable visitation" which translated to whatever his crazy ex thought was good and nothing else. It was his fault because, as can be expected, he was not emotionally well enough to make sound decisions. We have spent tens of thousands of dollars since then correcting the CS amount and visitation schedule. Not to mention, every time we went to court, BM brainwashed SD even more to hate DH and think he was terrible. So here we are poorer and have a spotty at best relationship with SD because he didn't look into getting a good lawyer at the beginning.

Also, are you living in St. Louis County or are they? You will be fighting in the county that they are in.

Best wishes,
Ref

[Father of three]

I am in St. Louis city, different courts, and was told by an attorney I can file here or the county, but was told the county, where I intended to file, was a better court anyway.

The first office I visited, the Legal Resource Center, previously the Pro Se clinic, has apparently had it's available resources severely reduced.  I have already made progress with what I hope will make for a better trip this week.  Hopefully, seperating information from advice won't be as difficult if I can be more specific with my requests, and direct them to the correct people.

I do NOT want to act to on my behalf.  I've considered everything regarding money.  Elaborating on my poor financial situation won't change it.    

I don't need outside encouragement to think time is important.  It only confirms what I beleive.  I can document constructive, positive steps I have taken to this point.  The only sensible recourse I see now is court involvement.  I can only hope and pray, while the courts may prefer I was represented, as do I, they respect the fact I am attempting to do something rather than postpone action, or do nothing.  A point I hope to respectfully make clear, if it seems it isn't recognized.