custody issue for scared dad/his family

[mbatde]

I am hoping that somebody might be able to advise me on my situation. It is a long story and I am hoping to make it brief as possible.

I am a step parent, and my husbands daughter thankfully came to live with us recently upon the request of her maternal grandmother. Yet she was abruptly "taken back" this past Saturday.Outline of pertinent facts

1. Child was born in mass, paternity acknowledged on several occasions, father on birth certificate.
2. Mother took child from state without fathers permission (to NY)
3. Father retrieved mother and child, brought them back to Mass
4. Mother again took the child back to NY without any warning.
5. Mother started child support proceedings based on “knowledge of where father was, but not disclosing accurate birth certificate.
6. Mother dropped child support suit in attempt to keep father out of childs life
7. Maternal grandmother pursed legal custody of child. (in Chautauqua county) Father not notified based on mother not supplying accurate birth certificate. Mother willingly gave up custody, custody was granted to maternal grandmother. Maternal grandmother also had custody of the mothers other child (with another father) for some time.
8. Child resided in Chautauqua county for a short time, and grandparents moved child to Erie county where she lived for at least 5 yrs. Child was raised by grandparents without much contact with the mother
9. Father continued looking for child, grandparents continued to tell child they didn’t know where her father was. Mother had contact information, but would not give it to grandparents.
10. Mother regained custody of her other child and sent this other child to live with her own father (In Mass) permanently due to an inability to raise/care for her.
11. Maternal grandmother contacted Father after nearly 8 years to have him in childs life. Child met father, and family. Talk immediately began between both parties to move child to the fathers home in Mass, by way of notarized letter in which grandmother transferred all rights. Grandparents stated clear inability to care for child. Grandparents stated that they had no contact with the childs mother. Father and fathers family stated definite ability to care for child in more appropriate way. Numerous visits and constant contact between child and father and fathers family occurred during this time.
12. Child was allowed to make decision as to where she lived, and the notarized letter transferring custody, was signed by all.
13. Child moved to Mass with fathers family, accepted everyone in her large family, was accepted by all. Made n many positive relationships, and made many positive improvements. Childs school work improved, as well as her health. Child was extremely happy.
14. Maternal grandmother attempted to take child from the home after 5 months. Reasons unknown. Child didn’t want to leave, grandmother allowed her to stay at that time and promised to leave her there permanently. Police refused to take child by force, based on notarized letter. Police witnessed grandmother giving the child the choice, and also witnessed the grandmother promising the child that she would be allowed to stay permanently without such interference.
15. Childs mother got involved with the promise to fathers family and to child that she would “help” the child stay where she was (with the father). Visit was planned to confirm childs wishes, and to plan what legal action would be taken by all parties to formally arrange the custody agreement in court.
16. Visit did not occur, as mother and grandmother showed up demanding that the child be released to them. Child had to be forced to leave by father. Child was in Massachusetts from July 28, 2003 until January 17 2003.



Again, sorry for the long post. I want to add: we are trying to find an attorney, but cannot afford the 5 to 10 thousand they want for retainer. Yes, looking into legal aid, but we need to go to court in NY and their legal aid wont help us unless we have no income. Mass legal aid will only help i domestic abuse/emergency cases.

Does anyone have any ideas? We are looking for some advice on jurisdiction issues, as NONE of the courts want to hear this case. (Ma or EITHER county in NY) ANY and all thoughtful advice would help.

As with all custody issues, I feel like everything is falling apart.

Due to some harsh response I recieved in another forum, for being the step mother I want to add that YES I am the step mother, and YES my husband is the one who has to take control of this, but I have always accepted all of his kids as they were mine, and I am involved in this 100%, with him. I love her, and have as much "stake" in this matter as he does.

We did not expect this battle, AT ALL, and its crummy what this kid is going thru.

[kiddosmom]

-----------Due to some harsh response I recieved in another forum, for being the step mother I want to add that YES I am the step mother, and YES my husband is the one who has to take control of this, but I have always accepted all of his kids as they were mine, and I am involved in this 100%, with him. I love her, and have as much "stake" in this matter as he does.-------

Welcome to Sparc :)  from one Stepmom (sm) to another!

As for your case, you will have to get an att.
everyone on here will tell you DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT!
One good thing in your favor is your letter the grandparents signed.

Get letters for school, church, anyone who can prove you have had the child for an extended length of time.

Here are some links for getting started:
http://www.deltabravo.net/news/10-19-2000.htm

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/articles.htm

Good luck, hope someone else has more info....

[VeronicaGia]

>11. Maternal grandmother contacted Father after nearly 8 years
>to have him in childs life. Child met father, and family. Talk
>immediately began between both parties to move child to the
>fathers home in Mass, by way of notarized letter in which
>grandmother transferred all rights. Grandparents stated clear
>inability to care for child. Grandparents stated that they had
>no contact with the childs mother. Father and fathers family
>stated definite ability to care for child in more appropriate
>way. Numerous visits and constant contact between child and
>father and fathers family occurred during this time.
>12. Child was allowed to make decision as to where she lived,
>and the notarized letter transferring custody, was signed by
>all.

****This was the mistake.  Father should have filed for legal custody immediately.  No notarized letter can override a court order!  The grandmother had every legal right to take the child.  Now, likely, mom is filing for custody, grandma will give up custody to mom, child will be permanently messed up!

>16. Visit did not occur, as mother and grandmother showed up
>demanding that the child be released to them. Child had to be
>forced to leave by father. Child was in Massachusetts from
>July 28, 2003 until January 17 2003.
>
**Just short of the 6 month residency requirement.  Sounds like grandma pulled a fast one at the expense of this child.  
>
>Again, sorry for the long post. I want to add: we are trying
>to find an attorney, but cannot afford the 5 to 10 thousand
>they want for retainer. Yes, looking into legal aid, but we
>need to go to court in NY and their legal aid wont help us
>unless we have no income. Mass legal aid will only help i
>domestic abuse/emergency cases.
>
>Does anyone have any ideas? We are looking for some advice on
>jurisdiction issues, as NONE of the courts want to hear this
>case. (Ma or EITHER county in NY) ANY and all thoughtful
>advice would help.
>
**Personally I think dad should go file for custody in the county in which he lives, stating that child has resided with him for six months.  He should find out about an emergency ex-parte order.  Honestly, you need an attorney!!!

>As with all custody issues, I feel like everything is falling
>apart.
>
>Due to some harsh response I recieved in another forum, for
>being the step mother I want to add that YES I am the step
>mother, and YES my husband is the one who has to take control
>of this, but I have always accepted all of his kids as they
>were mine, and I am involved in this 100%, with him. I love
>her, and have as much "stake" in this matter as he does.
>
>We did not expect this battle, AT ALL, and its crummy what
>this kid is going thru.

**We don't do that on SPARC except under extreme circumstances where the step parent is truly interfering or something.  All are welcome here.

**You need to at least consult with a few lawyers.  You cannot wait long at all.  If you do, the judge will not return the child.  What a mess.  Hopefully someone else has some ideas.
>

[mbatde]

Thanks for your thoughts and replies.  We had filed in the court where we are, months ago, for the adoption, (which was taking place due to the grandmothers saying that the "mother" did not exist in the childs life)

We tried to file for custody here, also, after the first time they tried to take her. Mass wont take jurisdiction of a case regardless of how long residency is.

We are currently filing in the NY county in which the child lived for over 5 yrs (prior to her coming to Mass) but they told us the judge "might" take the case.

I am sure SOMEONE has to have jurisdiction!

In hindsight, we never should have settled for the notarized letter, because it was a mutual agreement.  BIG mistake, I know.

We are hopeful that all of our evidence suggests a "signifigant change in circumstance"

Anyone know if it was legal to not serve my husband notice all those years ago?  I know it might be petty, but that is why he isnt a party to "the case" because they provided false/inaccurate B.C.

I know I am babbling.......

[mbatde]

Anyone with any good references to third party (non-biological parent) custody stuff?  Everything "out there' seems to be in regards to divorce, and "normal custody issues" (If there is even such a thing.

Do any of these kids turn out okay?

[smtotwo]

I'm another stepmom who is also 100% involved with DH's custody stuff.
Mostly because he is totally computer illiterate and I do all the research.
Do what  kiddosmom said   READ EVERYTHING HERE!!  and don't worry about the stepmom stuff, theres ALOT of us here.

Prayers and Hugs your way.

Good Luck and keep coming back, we're always here to help.

[determined]

What county in MA are you working in?  You may wish to pursue MA jurisdiction anyways.  I may be able to find you some precedents in the caselaw.  You may have just run afoul of a lousy Judge (god knows we have a lot of them here in MA).

[gipsy]

there is a process . Here In wah state they appoint a Guardian ad litem . Its a document at the court , You may want to check this out in your state , Or the state of jurisdiction . The Guardian ad Litem Is appoint to investigate on behalf of the minor child , For the following reason's
    1 , It is damaging to children to testify in court , Becuase all are there and the child is , In a position to make a choice between parents , The GAL reports to the court
  2 the judge does not have time to go out and investigate , And get all the facts , So they appoiont a GAL To report back to the judge , the GAl will listen to the story ,
   3 Guardian ad Litems are appointed based on the fact that the atty's argue for the paying parent , And the GAL's Have been implemented to eliminate the sole interests of slick atty;s , And to represent the childs best interest ,
     GAL's are not always the sharpest nor is there much of a training rquirement for them , But In general they work , And the Judges generally listen to them , Its in the judges best interest So they don't like give the kids to a ax murederer etc , The GAL can recomend drug testing evaluations and etc , So My strong advice is go find out at Your court .
   There are ways to do this ,
    1 Call the court and ask . Pen and paper in hand , Is there a time when atty's help pro se litigants at the court ?
   2 Call BAr association and ask for atty's that help pro se
   3 Search this site for state specific papers , they are on here I just cant recall where but spens some time looking
  4 Type in pro se repesentation in the search bar, Get state specific info
 5 Type in superior court [Your court ] And look through the site diligantly
  6 Call child support and ask if they have a handout Booklet for low cost legal aid . Call every number , Pen and paper in hand .You would be surprised all the info that is catered to support recipients ,
   Type     northwest justice project       in the search bar for an example Of wash state self help sites
   Don't give up ! Even If you can't find all these sites and fail at every thing go to the court early in the morning and talk to a judge ,
   I know a guy that did that And the judgegave him his kids .
   Go file a parenting plan with you as the custodial parent . Mom has to show or you can file a default order later and get custody , Scroll over and click or double click '  parenting plan  '  this site will take you there
   
   Next If you can get the child Back If  there has been no custody decree , And You can prove there has been mother abandonment ti the GAl then the GAl will report this to the Judge , The child will tell the GAl where she Has been living etc , I think you have a great chance of keeping the child , Just from appointing a GAl

[mbatde]

we are in Middlesex County.  Any specifics appreciated, but we had tried to file for custody, on an emergency basis after the first time the grandparents tried to take her, and (keeping in mind that the adoption was already filed in the same court)  the assistant register would not even speak to us.  She told me that they wouldnt take jurisdiction until the out of state order had been reduced and THEN the child had been here in Ma for 6 months.

I got some advice from a former sitting judge at the Erie County fam court in NY.  She told me to hire an atty in Ma, because we "may not even have to make a trip to NY"  I wondered if that meant something.

Wouldnt that be nice.

I just got confirmation from the assigned counsel program at the courts in NY, and we DO qualify for a court appointed attorney, BUT
We need to file the petition first, so right now I am trying to find someone tohelp us figure out what to file and fill it out, etc.  

Good news, as the step mom, I can file as a petitioner also....Thats good news to me.  My husband is relieved, becasue he is TERRIFIED of being in a court room alone!

But, thanks in advance if you can find out any specifics in regards to ma having jurisdiction.

[VeronicaGia]

>
>Anyone know if it was legal to not serve my husband notice all
>those years ago?  I know it might be petty, but that is why he
>isnt a party to "the case" because they provided
>false/inaccurate B.C.
>
>I know I am babbling.......

**If you can prove it, but you'd need to get a look at the case file.  Some states consider it proof of service as long as someone dropped it in the mail....and it may have been too long ago now to bring it up, but who knows?  

**You would have to get the controlling state to give up jurisdiction before a different state will take the custody order.  

**I hope someone else has something else to add, I hope this works out for the child...

[determined]

1.  Because all of these things take an inordinate amount of
     time, I would go ahead with things in NY, but I wouldn't
     concede on MA in the meantime.

2.  Middlesex County has district courts in Ayer, Concord,
     Framingham, Lowell, Malden, Marlborough, Natick, Newton,
     Waltham and Woburn (believe me, I got dragged into most
     of them by an ex who was forum shopping for a better
     answer).  

     If you were stymied in one of these, go down to Cambridge.
     It is the Superior Court, at least half of the Judges in District
     Court go through Cambridge at some point, and the worst
     excesses of the Middlesex Court have at least started in the
     Districts where it is easier to pull shenanigans without anybody
     else noticing.

3.  Cambridge Court has a "lawyer of the day" that you can sign
     up to see.  He is sitting just outside of the registrar's office on
     the second or third floor (I think it is the second floor, but in
     any case it is well marked).  You might try asking him if you
     are in there anyways.

4.  Most all lawyers around here will give you a free consultation.  
     They are looking to drum up business and you needn't express
     to them any concerns about affordability until after they have
     given you a knowledgeable response to the issue of jurisdiction.
     I'm not qualified to pontificate on the subject, but a "former
     sitting judge" certainly sounds qualified to me.

5.  As a Father who feels "beat round the head" by the system, I
     really have sympathy with your husband in that he is not at all
     excited at the prospect of going into court.  But if the two of
     you are persistent and have "right" on your side, sometimes
     you can prevail.  Unfortunately it took me over seven years
     (but I did not persist at first, only after I finally realized that
     the alternatives in my case were worse than the pain of dealing
     with a broken court system)

[wendl]

well tonight I don't have any great advice (sorry not feeling well)
HOWEVER--I am a stepmom too and WELCOME to Sparc.

I can say document everything tape phone calls if allowed in your state.

Many here can give you great advice, when you feel you are at your witts ends, come vent she won't blow you over.

Good luck:-)

[determined]

Be careful.  MA is a two party state (both parties MUST consnet to taping of recording).

[mbatde]

hi, all.

We have some news, and it mights be good.  We hired a lawyer to just assist us with filling out paper work, assessing what we need to do to "prove" our right, and assist us with the schools (they still refuse to give us records, and refuse to give us her personal items. they also refuse to go thru the *B.S.* Mass process of notifying the CP and giving them the option to provide proff of restraining order\, etc.)
Well, he is Lic in MA and NY.

He initially told us we had little chance, being that the order was from so long ago, and my husband never "disputed it" Once he read the 45 page fax i sent him, he seems to think that we have grounds to have it seem in Middlesex county !!!! In MA!

So, we will go in there on our own Monday and file for custody and emergency temp order,  and see what happens.  Worst case, they will give us an order refusing jurisdiction, and that will prove to Erie that they HAVE to hear it.  Ya'll know best case would mean we get her back till there is a final judgement.

And, if this doesnt work the lawyer will still help us with the rest of it on the MA end, and we can get the assigned counsel in ny.  I am pretty positive that we have to go to NY anyways, but this MIGHT work, and then the other court CANT refuse jurisdiction.

Does it "LOOK BAD" to have a court appointed lawyer? Could that come back on us as not being able to provide for the child?

Thanks for everyones advice.  Reading all of the thoughts and advice on this site entirely, gave me a real leg up as far as knowing what info would be helpoful to the lawyer, and what was not.  THANKS!

One more ?.  If we get a temp order  of custody, what do we do?  Go to NY and get her?  Some Police wont get involved.  My husb has full legal custody of his oldest son, who the mother just convinced to "stay" with her.  He is 16.  The same police that took lecia, or forced us to let her go, will NOT go get his son.  No sense in that!
Just curious.  i dont want to drive 1500 miles to find out the police wont enforce the order.

thanks, AMY

[determined]

I never heard the suggestion that it "looks bad" to have a court appointed lawyer.  

[mbatde]

I guess what i SHOULD have said was: Does it look bad to have a Court Appointed lawyer based on having a low income?

We arent poor, and our bills are paid.  We just cant afford the retainers.  The lawyer we are hiring in ma said that it might make an obvious statement that we cant AFFORD this other child.