Question about Mediator's Position?

[daisygirl0825]

Hello All,

I have searched the forums looking for an answer and have not found an answer.  My ex husband wanted to do mediation with his attorney as mediatior.  I agreed to talk and have not signed anything.  His attorney asked that I pay for six plane tickets a year and six he will pay for.  This means that the child will be flying twice a month on the months that he is home.  I agree with that because it is easier on the child than driving six hours there and six hours back on those weekends. 

My problem is that he and his attorney want me to pay for 12 tickets a year so that she can have visitation with his wife and mother on the weekends that he is not home.  I do not feel responsible for that, and I could be wrong.  His attorney told me that the courts have determined visitation is for the family and not just for him when he is home.  I agreed that they could see her on those weekends at their expense but that is as far as I wanted to go.  I have not heard anything from him or his attorney since that meeting which was three weeks ago. 

Is it likely that a judge would rule in favor of visitation for his wife and mother at my expense?  I hate to fight for something that would ultimately be ruled in his favor.

Thank You

[ocean]

Be  very careful here. The lawyer is NOT a mediator. The lawyer is working for you EX only. The lawyer is allowed to draw up papers and have you there if you do not have a lawyer to try to smooth things out BUT it is not like going to a regular mediator who listens on both sides. This lawyer can NOT go into court and say he mediated either. He only represents your ex.

Since you are long distance, usually judges will not order the twice a month. Even the plane ride is a lot twice a month. If you all agree, the judge will probably sign it BUT I think your offer is VERY fair and you are splitting the cost. Since father is at work, you are the other parent and will have her. You did offer for her to be able to go but at their expense. The 12 times is a little much in my opinion.  Look up your state and see what long distance plan is usually given (most states have school breaks, split long holidays every other year, and a longer summer break). Also, what happens when his weekend is a holiday? That will come up quite often throughout the year...

Keep checking the courts to make sure they did not put in papers. You should be served with papers but always check when you are in the middle of things. Most have an online service you can sign into to see your account.

[MixedBag]

what ocean said about mediation is right.  THIS is not mediation.

as for the travel and stuff and seeing the them and dad isnt there i think that  can go either way so i think you are not way off base with  your line of thought.  parenting time is for dad and what he decides to do during that time is really up to him.  like i had to take my time and share it with my parents who dont  live near mw.   maybe an incremental approach is good?  like when the child gets to bee older?

[daisygirl0825]

Thank you much for the responses.  In Texas, there is a clause in the standard order, which we have now, that the NCP can choose to see child EOW even if they live over 100 miles away.  Right now he lives approx 400 miles away.  He says the time is his to see her and I need to make things easier by helping to split the costs. 

Thank you for the information about the attorney not being able to be an independent mediator.  Her representation was that she could be the mediator and take care of the paperwork.  In some ways I felt railroaded as this came up during a child support hearing and I was not prepared to talk about visitation changes.  I do feel comfortable that i have not signed anything.  Before signing anything I will have an attorney go over everything.

Thank you Again.

[ocean]

Also, who moved?
Usually the parent that moves pays all or most because they knew the cost of moving so far away from their children and chose to move.

[daisygirl0825]

It was him who moved the 400 miles away.  I did recently move 20 miles further away from the location from where the order was set.  I lived in the country and decided to move into the city.  He did not contest me moving the twenty miles at the time.  Currently I drive 115 miles to meet him for drop off and pick up.  This has been in effect for 7 years.  Child will be 11 next month.  She has flown a couple times at split expense on both sides.  This stopped because he would not allow her to contact me upon arrival as per our original agreement. 

I have read several posts and participated in the forum in the past.  I learned one thing, there should not be a NCP side and a CP side, it should be the child's side.  I used to believe it was about my rights but it is not.  The child needs both parents and the only way he will see her is if she flies and if I pay for half of that.  She needs her dad and as twisted as I think he is, if I can help her have that relationship then I need to. 

I am not as understanding about the Step-Mom needing visitation.  If she wants to have her on the weekends that Dad is not home, then I will meet her 100 miles closer to her home.  I thought that was fair.  If his mother wants to see her, I offered to drive her to her house as we live 40 miles apart.  They want me to pay for the flight and I cannot get my head around that.

Thank You

[Simplydad]

It was him who moved the 400 miles away.  I did recently move 20 miles further away from the location from where the order was set.  I lived in the country and decided to move into the city.  He did not contest me moving the twenty miles at the time.  Currently I drive 115 miles to meet him for drop off and pick up.  This has been in effect for 7 years.  Child will be 11 next month.  She has flown a couple times at split expense on both sides.  This stopped because he would not allow her to contact me upon arrival as per our original agreement. 

The standard order in Texas for parents that live more than one hundred miles apart clearly state that he will has to pick the child up at your place of residence and return the child to your residence.

He can't make you do anything and should be thankful that you help at all to help him with travel costs.  Your helping in that department is good thing.  Your ex is probably asking you to do more than you actually have to. Hopefully a gentle reminder that you are actually doing more than you have to should end it but that depends if the other side wants to be irrational or not.

I have read several posts and participated in the forum in the past.  I learned one thing, there should not be a NCP side and a CP side, it should be the child's side.  I used to believe it was about my rights but it is not.  The child needs both parents and the only way he will see her is if she flies and if I pay for half of that.  She needs her dad and as twisted as I think he is, if I can help her have that relationship then I need to. 

I agree with you on this part.  It really isn't about the parents inability to get along if that is the case. It should be about the child spending as much time with each parent as possible.  If you want to help with expenses on that then I applaud you for that because you are putting the child first.

I am not as understanding about the Step-Mom needing visitation.  If she wants to have her on the weekends that Dad is not home, then I will meet her 100 miles closer to her home.  I thought that was fair.  If his mother wants to see her, I offered to drive her to her house as we live 40 miles apart.  They want me to pay for the flight and I cannot get my head around that.

Thank You

I personally think you are being more than fair.  Asking you to pay for the ticket is over the top and what your ex should have done was ask to switch visitation time for something where he would be there.

[MixedBag]

Simplydad....you said "The standard order in Texas for parents that live more than one hundred miles apart clearly state that he will has to pick the child up at your place of residence and return the child to your residence"- can you provide the link or hardcopy reference to her for her reference?  I'm not dealing with TX's so I wouldn't know.

[Simplydad]

Here is a link to the Texas Family Code section 153 which covers visitation

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/FA/htm/FA.153.htm (http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/FA/htm/FA.153.htm)

Visitation starts at section 153.3101

153.316 has the general terms and this is the part where it mentions picking up and dropping off the child.  These rules apply to both orders of visitation....less than 100 miles and more than 100 miles away.

(1)  the managing conservator shall surrender the child to the possessory conservator at the beginning of each period of the possessory conservator's possession at the residence of the managing conservator;

(2)  if the possessory conservator elects to begin a period of possession at the time the child's school is regularly dismissed, the managing conservator shall surrender the child to the possessory conservator at the beginning of each period of possession at the school in which the child is enrolled;
(3)  the possessory conservator shall be ordered to do one of the following:
(A)  the possessory conservator shall surrender the child to the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession at the residence of the possessory conservator;  or

(B)  the possessory conservator shall return the child to the residence of the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession, except that the order shall provide that the possessory conservator shall surrender the child to the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession at the residence of the possessory conservator

[MixedBag]

Daisy, print, file, and quote.

[Kitty C.]

I'm confused.......maybe it's because of the frequency of the terms 'managing conservator' and 'possessory conservator' being used, but I interpreted it differently.

'(3)  the possessory conservator shall be ordered to do one of the following:
(A)  the possessory conservator shall surrender the child to the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession at the residence of the possessory conservator;  or

(B)  the possessory conservator shall return the child to the residence of the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession, except that the order shall provide that the possessory conservator shall surrender the child to the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession at the residence of the possessory conservator'

In (A), I interpret it to mean that the NCP surrenders the child to the CP at the NCP's home, but in (B) I interpret it to be the opposite, so it likes like to me that it could go either way and the end of each parenting time.  At the beginning of each parenting time, it seems pretty cut-and-dried...in that the child is picked up either at the CP's residence or at the child's school, whichever can be agreed upon by the parents.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong....

[daisygirl0825]

SimplyDad--Thank You for the information.  I feel that gives me just a bit more perspective because he has been making me feel selfish and unwilling to work on him seeing daughter. 

Unfortunately last night began a new turn of events.  Step Mom and daughter got into an agrument on the phone to the point I had to take the phone away because step mom threatened daughter.  I am not sure what all transpired, just found daughter crying on the phone and I took the phone away.  Today lawyer called and said mediation is ended until step mom and daughter make up.  I need to have daughter call her to apologize for saying she did not want to come for next visitation.  Step mom told her she would take matters into her own hands and make it happen if she had to put me in jail.  This came from lawyer.  Not real sure where to go from here?.?.?  I am thinking not mediation.

[ocean]

Are you sure this is a lawyer? Sounds like this is a friend your ex's calling...

Your daughter does NOT need to apologize until you get to the bottom of this. You need to find out exactly what happened. Until then, NO phone calls with step-mother. Phone calls are for dad (and in good relationships whoever else). Step-mother should not be getting in the middle of this with child.

Not sure what the lawyer was talking about. You can not be thrown in jail for what your child said on the phone. If there is no mediation, then he is not going to get any visitation or changes so not in HIS best interest.

What is currently court ordered (from your last set of papers)? Follow that until you get another COURT order. If your state allows, TAPE this lawyer. Or say, in the beginning of the conversation, that you will be taping all phone calls from him (maybe that will keep him more ethical). You do not have to pick up every phone call either. Let him talk to voicemail first and see if he leaves any info on that.

Maybe start child in counseling by you if you think she needs it. Sounds like they are telling her things on the phone to put her in the middle. Stop the phone calls for a while or only allow dad phone calls to come through. For the first couple, tell your daughter if they start talking about adult stuff, to hand you the phone. Really need to know what the phone call was about though...but to have the step-mom get lawyer involved for an kid apology in crazy.

(PS, even if she did not go to visitation next time, you will not be put in jail, just have to explain why she did not go, the worst that would happen is make up time but at her age, she is getting close to where the courts listen to the child about what is going on)

[Simplydad]

I'm confused.......maybe it's because of the frequency of the terms 'managing conservator' and 'possessory conservator' being used, but I interpreted it differently.

'(3)  the possessory conservator shall be ordered to do one of the following:
(A)  the possessory conservator shall surrender the child to the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession at the residence of the possessory conservator;  or

(B)  the possessory conservator shall return the child to the residence of the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession, except that the order shall provide that the possessory conservator shall surrender the child to the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession at the residence of the possessory conservator'

In (A), I interpret it to mean that the NCP surrenders the child to the CP at the NCP's home, but in (B) I interpret it to be the opposite, so it likes like to me that it could go either way and the end of each parenting time.  At the beginning of each parenting time, it seems pretty cut-and-dried...in that the child is picked up either at the CP's residence or at the child's school, whichever can be agreed upon by the parents.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong....

Kitty,

I read and re-read it because after your post I seemed to be confused as well.  This is the statement that I think is key.....

(3)  the possessory conservator shall be ordered to do one of the following:

It is the "do one of the following" that stands out.

I think one of the two items is the only thing listed in the decree.   Visitation is ended at either the NCP or CP's residence.  I will look at some decree's here in texas and see what the language is.

[Simplydad]

SimplyDad--Thank You for the information.  I feel that gives me just a bit more perspective because he has been making me feel selfish and unwilling to work on him seeing daughter.

Doing what is right by your child is not being selfish and I truly understand how you feel.  From the information I am getting it seems you do what you can to facilitate the relationship between your father and daughter.  You can only do so much and what happens at times is the other parent tends to take advantage of the situation.   

Unfortunately last night began a new turn of events.  Step Mom and daughter got into an agrument on the phone to the point I had to take the phone away because step mom threatened daughter.  I am not sure what all transpired, just found daughter crying on the phone and I took the phone away.  Today lawyer called and said mediation is ended until step mom and daughter make up.  I need to have daughter call her to apologize for saying she did not want to come for next visitation.  Step mom told her she would take matters into her own hands and make it happen if she had to put me in jail.  This came from lawyer.  Not real sure where to go from here?.?.?  I am thinking not mediation.

This right here is absolutely ridiculous.   

1. The step mother has zero rights as it pertains to visitation.  You do not have to agree to turn your daughter over to her. No court in the country would force you to do so.

2. Texas does not have mediator license requirements but I highly doubt this person is a mediator or an attorney for that matter.  Is there a pending motion before the court?  That would be the only reason mediation would be required right now. You have a final decree that spells out visitation.  A motion will have to be filed before there is any changes.

3. Call back the attorney and ask for their state bar number.   IF they ask why you need it tell them you want to verify their status as an attorney and you are considering filing a complaint with the Texas State Bar. You may not get any information at all but what you are doing here is putting them on notice. ....after that no more telephone conversations with the attorney.  Tell them from this point on you will only accept communication via email or mail.

If there is no motion before the court there is nothing that can be done. You do not need to agree to anything they ask for.

[Simplydad]

I'm confused.......maybe it's because of the frequency of the terms 'managing conservator' and 'possessory conservator' being used, but I interpreted it differently.

'(3)  the possessory conservator shall be ordered to do one of the following:
(A)  the possessory conservator shall surrender the child to the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession at the residence of the possessory conservator;  or

(B)  the possessory conservator shall return the child to the residence of the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession, except that the order shall provide that the possessory conservator shall surrender the child to the managing conservator at the end of each period of possession at the residence of the possessory conservator'

In (A), I interpret it to mean that the NCP surrenders the child to the CP at the NCP's home, but in (B) I interpret it to be the opposite, so it likes like to me that it could go either way and the end of each parenting time.  At the beginning of each parenting time, it seems pretty cut-and-dried...in that the child is picked up either at the CP's residence or at the child's school, whichever can be agreed upon by the parents.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong....

I checked some random divorces in one of the counties and saw that in each divorce it states where the child is picked up and dropped off.  They clealy list it by name where this occurs and it is the same way in my divorce as well.

What is listed there does seem confusion but it made sense once I started looking at the orders.  One of the options has to be selected.

[daisygirl0825]

Ocean--  Daughter has been in counseling for three years.  She likes being able to get the frustration out and that helps everyone.  I had not allowed contact between daughter and step mom until meeting with Dad.  He asked that this happen, and I agreed as they were pushing visitation but settled on phone calls at the time.  This was the first phone call.  The story is long so I will surmise. 

StepMom promised that a friend could travel with them and spend visitation with daughter and family.  All arrangements were made without contact with me.  In that, she texted daughter that Mom would have no problem driving the friend and daughter.  Friends Mom was not aware of the travel arrangements, she was under the impression that they would be doing all of the travel arrangements.  When I texted Stepmom, asking what the plans were, she called everything off and told me I needed to monitior daughter's texting better.  I emailed her and asked that we work this out because daughter was heartbroken.  She said nothing to work out and would call and explain that she was the one at fault with the situation.  When she called daughter and told her that there was not any chance of friend going daughter pulled ten year old dramatics.  She gave an ultimatum that if friend could not go as promised, then she was not going.  StepMom told her if she did not go she would take matters into her own hands and daughter would find out who was in charge.  Daughter freaked out worse and told her to talk to Mom and StepMom refused.  I took the phone from Daughter and told StepMom call was over and hung up. 

She then sent an email to daughter's account, thru Dad's email, saying she was overreacting and needed to be grown up about this and understand StepMom can make the decisions on his behalf and signed it with his name.  The reason we know it was her, Dad is offshore and does not have electronic communication.

There are no motions before the court.  The person representing them is trying to get them to understand the court will not make me agree to the terms they want.   StepMom says she has rights because child is as much hers as ours.  She emailed that she is willing to go to court to make this happen.  I have the feeling that court is the course of action that needs to be taken.  Current orders will be what we go by.

SimplyDad--  Good advice, I asked for the information and have heard nothing back since.  Lol

[Simplydad]

She then sent an email to daughter's account, thru Dad's email, saying she was overreacting and needed to be grown up about this and understand StepMom can make the decisions on his behalf and signed it with his name.  The reason we know it was her, Dad is offshore and does not have electronic communication.

This is just laughable.  It is as if they will try to do anything to convince you to do what they want. 

Now Dad can have stepmon act on his behalf on anythng he wants. All he has to do is give a power of attorny........BUT.....there is not a single legal document that I know of that will allow dad to grant stepmom permission to act on his behalf as it pertains to the parent/child relationship. Now I do know that a NCP can designate a competent adult to pick a child up and return the child on their behalf.  That is all they can do. They are not authorized to make any decisions that pertain to the child. That right belong to the parents alone.

StepMom says she has rights because child is as much hers as ours.  She emailed that she is willing to go to court to make this happen. 

Tell her good luck with that.  She can't even file a motion before the court.

SimplyDad--  Good advice, I asked for the information and have heard nothing back since.  Lol

Glad I could help. I have learned that if you call someone's bluff the truth will eventually come out.

[MixedBag]

"I have learned that if you call someone's bluff the truth will eventually come out"

How true that is -- so you have to be very careful and be ready to follow through on the "I'm going to court" words when they get said or written.

[ocean]

Exactly...she can not file ANYTHING in court without your ex's signature and HE would have to be there. SHE is not even allowed in court room unless she is testifying. Even if he was around it is really to late to get anything court ordered for this summer...

Block the email for now and give dad a new email to use that you control and print out. She is very young to do email herself anyway.
No contact at all with step mother or her "lawyer". Now I am convinced that this person is not a lawyer. Send a registered letter to dad to call you when he gets back to discuss the next visitation and that this is between you and HIM and will not be discussing this situation with anyone else.

What does it say on paper now about when he is away?

[daisygirl0825]

Currently it does not say anything about when he was away, just that he must be present for visitation.  They had requested the email because they did not want to call only write to her.  That has been the rule since she was four.  There had not been an issue before so this one snuck up on me.  The understanding between us had always been to leave daughter out of the middle, but now that has backfired.   

All I wanted was for us to get along and daughter got hurt.  I did not realize how awful things could turn by allowing communication between stepmom and daughter.

[ocean]

Ok..good so you are covered by the court order too.
When is he coming back? No contact/visits until he comes back.
You can make a certain time he calls, you answer, make sure it is him, then hand her the phone.
Tell he she needs to respect her SM but she can at any time hand the phone back to you if she gets on the phone and starts with her.

Sad that you were really trying to do the right thing with her. Most of us would LOVE you as a bio mother. To try and make a visit with a friend without telling you is nutty...especially when he is not home and she is doing it all.

Family court will not allow her to even fill out papers.

[daisygirl0825]

Just an update on this situation.

Dad came home and left a voicemail for daughter saying she has not choice but to go to visitation.  Daughter called back and asked him to call and talk to her.  That was two days ago and Dad is "too busy" to call, but can email me saying if I do not make her go then I do not support him as a parent, new wife using his name.  Dad will not call me or daughter and I feel stuck.  I am begging him to call and the email says that is disrespectful to make demands of his time.  I am at a complete loss.  Needless to say, daughter is not going this weekend and they are claiming to file contempt.  My attorney said to let them so this can go before a judge at their expense.  Legally I cannot make Dad be involved, but maybe the judge will say something to him to make him understand communication with daughter is important and not a demand.

[daisygirl0825]

Just got an email from Dad's account saying that he will not call daughter and will forego any further visitation.  I am so sad for my daughter.

[Giggles]

Just got an email from Dad's account saying that he will not call daughter and will forego any further visitation.  I am so sad for my daughter.

He's an idiot...keep that e-mail in a file.

Most of us here learned to "Document....Document....Document"!!  SO when or even "if" they file...you have back up information.

How sad for your DD

[ocean]

Yup, keep that email because now he can not file contempt. He just let you know he is not picking up child.
Just tell child that until things calm down, she is going to stay with you but that her dad loves her (take the high road). Sounds like this is from the SM. Are you sure the father knows what the SM is doing?

Do you have a work number you can call him on and just say, got an email that you are no longer taking XX for your parenting time?

SM is mad that her plan did not work and she was probably told she can not force anything. SM probably does not want to pay for a lawyer either and thought she can bully the situation which backfired. Oh well....

Sorry for child though...just tell her maybe when things calm down they will call and work things out...

[daisygirl0825]

Unfortunately I have no way of contacting Dad without going through stepmom.  I have his home number, and her cell number.  His work number is to the main office and they have told me they cannot connect the call offshore without there being a medical emergency.  Daughter was so sure he would call and this really is awful for her.  I have read up on PAS, which I am accused of, and I do not see the correlation.  Can someone enlighten me?  I am worried about hurting daughter unintentionally.

My appreciation to those dealing with PBFH because I feel like that is what I am doing. 

[ocean]

He is blaming PAS on you? That means that you are telling her to not go to her fathers and not encouraging visits. Can you leave a message for him at work to call you that it is important but not an emergency?

If he is home, you can send him a certified letter and check off the box that ONLY he can sign for it and not SM. Just write the facts of the last few weeks and that you are willing to work with him but you will not deal with SM due to her past actions. At least you know he read it and you have proof you are trying to work with him.

[Simplydad]

Unfortunately I have no way of contacting Dad without going through stepmom.  I have his home number, and her cell number.  His work number is to the main office and they have told me they cannot connect the call offshore without there being a medical emergency.  Daughter was so sure he would call and this really is awful for her.  I have read up on PAS, which I am accused of, and I do not see the correlation.  Can someone enlighten me?  I am worried about hurting daughter unintentionally.

My appreciation to those dealing with PBFH because I feel like that is what I am doing.   

The PAS claim is without merit.  Your Ex will need to be very careful with the claims they make.   

PAS is considered a form of child abuse. So if your Ex makes that claim here and tries to get it before a judge be better make sure he has all of his ducks in a row or he could be a lot of trouble.  In Texas (and I am sure many other places) there were a lot of false abuse allegations against one parent or another. I am sure many of us have heard or read some of the horror stories concerning a parent facing false allegations of abuse.

Texas has taken a stance towards parents that make false allegations and could be in quite a bit of trouble if they make any.  There section in the Texas Family Code that specifically covers this in custody issues.  Initially it will start off as a contempt charge but I highly doubt anyone wants to stand before a judge and expect things to go their way after they made a false abuse allegation.

Sec. 153.013.  FALSE REPORT OF CHILD ABUSE.  (a)  If a party to a pending suit affecting the parent-child relationship makes a report alleging child abuse by another party to the suit that the reporting party knows lacks a factual foundation, the court shall deem the report to be a knowingly false report.
(b)  Evidence of a false report of child abuse is admissible in a suit between the involved parties regarding the terms of conservatorship of a child.
(c)  If the court makes a finding under Subsection (a), the court shall impose a civil penalty not to exceed $500.



Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 751, Sec. 28, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.  Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 786, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.

[daisygirl0825]

Thank you for the responses.  I feel much better because I did not understand the PAS accusation.

SimplyDad -- Thank You!!  You are such a wealth of information. 

Ocean -- Letter has been sent and am waiting for a response from Dad.

We have decided to take a wait and see approcah because he has decided not to see her any longer.  Last time he did this it was 9 months of no contact.  The time before that was 15 months of no contact. 

[MixedBag]

certified "restricted delivery" is the way to send something and only a specific person can sign for it.