Play on Words

[firstlove]

Custody Orders have wording that is often used by the BM to manipulate orders to her liking.. ex: From two weeks after school dismisses for the summer vacation until 1 week before school begins in the fall, the minor children shall reside with MH.  next follows  BM may have 2 weeks of consecutive vvisitation with the minor child during the summer months.  Our understanding is that the word shall means..  the court orders that this is to take place and the meaning of "may" is this is not court ordered and does not have to take place without being held in contempt of the order.

the court order is very vague and does not define visitation. can someone define visitation? do it always have to be an overnight stay or could it simply be a few hours each day?

[tigger]

I took it to mean that the BM has the right to take two consecutive weeks during the summer and that it's overnight.

[bloom6372]

That's some odd wording. I would think that it could go either way. BM gets the first 2 weeks of summer, and it's consecutive. Or, it could mean that BM gets 2 consecutive weeks during your DH's parenting time IF she chooses (of course, that would be around your schedule if there's no set time).  Is there a FOC that you can contact to clarify?

Maybe if you post the whole paragraph on the visitation, we could better help?

As for visitation, it varies based on what is written. If there are times, then obviously that would be when it would occur. If not, it would depend on the exact wording. For instance, in my DH's CO, for summer, it says "The Friday before Father's Day until August 11 each and every year". That would obviously be overnights, because he gets that entire period.

[ocean]

Usually wording but many people go back and get exacts dates and times when parents do not agree. I read it as:
Mother gets weeks 1 and 2
Father gets weeks 3- 1 week before school starts BUT mom can request/get 2 full weeks within any part of the summer.
Mother gets last week.

Shall means - court ordered
May- means also court ordered but up to mom to take time

You could argue that mom is getting her two weeks at the beginning of the summer. If she does not agree then mom would have to bring it back to court to get more clearer wording.

[firstlove]

The CO is so vague throughout which allows for play on wording especially when BM gets mad and wants to use it to her advantage to deny visitation. Below is the enitre order:

It would be in the best interest of the minor children that the parties share joint legal custody of their minor children and that their physical custody be arranged as follows:
a. From a week before public school begin in the Defendant's school district of residence (BM lived in another state at the time,but returned back to the same city within the year after CO were written) until two weeks after school is released for the summer, the minor children shall reside with the Defendant.

b. From two weels after the release of school for summer vacation until the week before school begins in the fall, the minor children shall reside with the plantiff.

c. The Defendant may have two weeks of consecutive vistation with the minor children during the summer months.

d. The Plantiff shall have the minor children for visitation during the minor children's spring and fall breaks. The Plantiff shall also have the minor children during the Christmas School Break, subject to the Defendant's right to visit with the children the weekend before Christmas and one day of the Christmas holiday on Christmas or Christmas Eve if she is celebrating this holiday in a convinent vcinity to the Plantiff's residence.

e. Tha parties may have additional visitation with the minor children during their non-custodial periods as the parties may arrange.


At the time this was written BM lived in IOWA and MH remained in Florida.  Bm returned to same city in Florida where MH lives about 8 months after this order was written, because BM had not establish residency in Iowa before the motion was filed the ordered were written in Florida.   Now that MH is enforcing the use of CO, BM uses the wording to alienate the children for seeing MH as well as reducing the amount of time he has for visitation. Bm also will also request to do activities or enroll children in programs and want MH to take them to practice or events during his vistation time.  When this doesnt happen BM becomes iriate and often time the kids will complain that it not fair they can't do the things she has told them they can do during MH visitation time.

Just wanting to follow the CO, but not loose time with children over a play on words. 

[ocean]

What is the current issue with ex? What does she want/say?

On the activities- Been on both sides of the fence on this one. Part of being a parent is being the taxi driver and going to their activities- no matter whose weekend/time it is. If there is a big family event on a practice/game, then they miss it, but if you are sitting home then they should be going to their activities most times. NOW, you can make a deal with the kids and ask them what they want to join, and one thing at a time. The upside is that you can go to their activity or games when it is NOT your time and see them and let them know you care. Just let the kids know, that you are willing to do one thing each but after that, it will need to be on mom's time since you only get to see them a certain amount of time and no matter what, family comes first.

If you are close now, you can file a modification to visitation papers (free at family court house) and file yourself. The reason " mother moved back into area and father would like more specific parenting time now that the children are XX miles and not out of state". Then you can come up with a more exact times/dates schedule for close parenting. The court will type of the papers, send them back to you, you have her served, and go to court. If you want, you can attach a plan he would like to have with kids (very specific) and add a little more so you have room to negotiate in court.

If you are close, it should be closer to:
every other weekend, fri from school or 2pm until Sunday 7pm
one day during the week for dinner (dismissal from school -7pm)
summer you can put dates dad gets July 5 9am- Aug 15 6pm...(whatever..)
holiday schedule put in place with dates/times (look on this site for good ones)
Birthdays (dad, kids)
Father's day...sat night 7pm- sunday 7pm

Post what you want, and we can tweek it..

[firstlove]

Visitation is a time that should allow the non custodial parent free time without input or demands from the other party.. Because of the vagueness of the current CO (currently waiting for hearing for modifications with detail and specific arrangements) BM uses it at time when the BF wants to spend time with the kids often times  using it like the a dangling carrot in front of the donkey.  If the he wants to visit with kids BM will agree and then several hours later the kids all of sudden have some place to be.. or if they stay the night then the phone call comes early the next morning wanting to know what time are they coming back they got a birthday to go to.  Often the excuses are so lame that its not worth making that attempt to see them outside the court ordered visitation..  when BM visitation comes about then there are always prearranged events to go to and most often it is only for the eldest child nothing ever for the younger ones.   Then the return often times yield backlash from BM based on eldest daughter reports with half truths.

The modification with have detailed times and dates not to mention a few of the suggestion you made as well.\

thanks!

[Kitty C.]

'Visitation is a time that should allow the non custodial parent free time without input or demands from the other party.. '

Parenting time is time spent doing things with the CHILDREN...that includes any extra-curricular activities they want to be involved in.  I agree with ocean in that it should be one activity at a time, whether it be sports, Scouts, or some other activity that enriches the child's life.  Just because the parents are separated, it doesn't absolve the NCP from the responsibility of supporting those efforts.  Let's put it this way......if you and BM were still together and one big, happy family, would you take a child to his/her ball practice, game, or Scout event?  Of course you would....divorce or separation doesn't change that.

If you support the child in his/her efforts as mentioned above, that also includes making it possible for them to participate. 

Birthday or any other kind of parties are a different story....if it's family, that's one thing.  If it's friends (whether the BM's or the children's), no way.  Family first.

[firstlove]

BF time with the kids is often spent enjoying activities with the children.  Versus have to be committed to one child's events while the other have to tag along,sitting idle. Majority of the events/practice that have to be attended are for the one particular child and BF finds out most often on the day of his visitation which has him altering his plans or the child missing out.  This leads to how important it is to this one child..  Family First is important but is should include all the children.