Upcoming Mediation/Custody Hearing..Looking for Advice

[chickenbubbasmom]

Looking for advice, and a friendly ear..I have posted several times in the past about my situation. Long story involving LOTS of Parental Alienation.

     2 years ago DH got custody of his oldest of 2 boys, after the boy was struck by mom's live-in. He is now 16 1/2. It has been a very long two years. He came to us at almost 15 and still in the 8th grade. We were able to get him to pass the 8th grade, just barely. He has struggled in high school, falling far behind even with extra support from teachers, school counselor, a personal counselor we signed him up with shortly after he moved in, as well as our help and support. According to DH he has always posed a behavior problem in school and done poorly academically. He has also had on and off problems with drug and alcohol. He admitted to us he began smoking marijuana in 7th grade, and was caught with it in 8th grade before coming to live with us. He has been labeled as having ADD, Oppositional Defiance Disorder, Sensory Integration Issues, and other things. Mostly by his mother, as an excuse for his bad behavior and acting out. I don't believe a doctor has ever directly diagnosed him with any of these things. He has also been acting out sexually with different girls since he moved with us. Most recently, he was caught shoplifting, and let go after I went to pick him up.

     Mom is seeking to regain custody, either for herself or for her mother. She filed a few months back after an incident in which my SS was harassing a girl over the phone and DH took his phone. SS charged at DH and DH broke the phone. SS ran away to moms house, and both BM and DH filed ex parte. Her for custody, and DH for his son to be returned. Judge ordered SS to return home until the hearing in Jan/Feb. BM called the boy at school and told him to run away, which he did. We reported him as a runaway and got him back 2 days later after he magically appeared at the grandmothers house. Police had to drag him kicking and screaming. After a few days, BM's brainwashing wore off and things went back to normal. However, SS has been playing all sides to get what he wants. He lies to us and to his mom about each other. BM, who is crazy in her own right is making up fantastic stories about us regarding child abuse, drug dealing and the like. Also my younger SS was acting out terribly towards us since this started, I'm assuming because the alienation is in full effect. At one point he wanted to go to a party and we had plans so he tried to run away (like his brother had done and got rewarded by mom). When DH stopped him from leaving, he called his mom who told him to call 911 and say he was being abused. My husband was handcuffed and put in the back of the police car before they figured out what was really going on. In the last few weeks things had settled down some with BM and she has been civil for the most part.

     So, after the shoplifting incident 12/27, SS was very defiant and lied about everything. He called his mom and made up a story that was the opposite of what DH later told her. He basically downplayed it to where he did nothing wrong and we were all liars. DH, frustrated told mom to come get him for her time a few days early, and told him he couldn't live here if he was going to keep lying and doing bad things. He asked mom to back him up and punish him for stealing. Unfortunately, BM used this as another opportunity to get control. She did not punish him, but started telling him lies about how DH was going to send him away, and how he can have everything he wants if he lives with her. Now SS is refusing to come home unless he isn't in trouble anymore and we let him do what he wants. So, at this point we are very frustrated and just wondering what you guys would do in this situation?? Mediation is at the end of Jan. and court is 2/2 I believe. Should we force him home and fight for him to stay here? I feel like we are wasting our time because he just doesnt seem to care. I know he will not do better with mom or grandma. They are both very controlling women who treat him way younger than his years. They have always made excuses and never forced him to own up to his mistakes. That is a big part of the problem we have been dealing with. I am also worried what will happen when'if she has all the power again. Before he lived here we never saw them on DH's parenting time, she would just disappear. We got nowhere with police or the court about that. She has already started doing it again with the younger one, overscheduling activities during DH's time.

Sorry for such a long post/rant.. any thoughts?

[MixedBag]

Is he in any counselling?


Does he have a real doctor's diagnosis now?

[chickenbubbasmom]

 Hello Mixed Bag~

We put him in counseling shortly after he came to live with us. He has been with that counselor for almost two years. I think the counselor feels much like we do, he can't get through to him.

As far as diagnosis, at the most recent meeting with the school BM stated he has ADD (first we've heard of it). His therapist thought it might be good to just go with it to get him specialized help at school, since he is struggling so much. So he has never been officially diagnosed by a doctor that I know of, but he does have these different labels on his school records. We also took him to a phsyciatrist who prescribed him med to help him focus, but he refuses to take it.


He failed 7 high school classes in a year and a half. His school history is he was pulled out of school after kindergarten and homeschooled by BM for a year, due to behavior problems at school. He went back to school a year later, but still had many behavior problems. One story I recall, in third grade he chopped off a little girls hair. BM deflected blame to the girl, saying she told him to. He had to repeat 5th grade. 6th grade BM changed schools halfway through because of his behavior. 7th and 8th he had around 20 write-ups for bad behavior, ranging from language to sexual harassment and then he was caught with marijuana. BM pulled him then and put him in independent studies, blaming the school for being a dangerous environment. And that was when he came to us.

[ocean]

The psychiatrist should of diagnosed him with something in order to give him meds. He is refusing to take meds? Look up PINS petition. Person in need of supervision. Maybe you can get him into that program where the courts will give him help and people to follow up with him. Sounds like he has many serious issues going on plus you are dealing with his mother. Does she want him back for child support?

He needs to respect you, your home, family, and house rules. It is up to you as to where to draw the line. With his school history, seems like you can keep custody but do you want it at this point? Maybe you guys should find a therapist that is willing to take over (for you and him). Someone that can help put boundaries in your home and maybe deal with him. Maybe take him back to psychiatrist and say he is refusing meds and out of control. You can put him in a program until 18 after that he is an adult and will have his own right to refuse meds/help.

[chickenbubbasmom]

Ocean~DH says the phsyciatrist did not specifically diagnose him with anything, but the medication was to help him focus because he says he cannot focus or pay attention in school. I did notice a little improvement with his impulse control while he was on it, but then he decided it wasn't doing anything and refused to take it. I think that because it wasn't getting him high, he feels it didn't work.

Whatever happens, we are definitely going to have to ask the court to refer him/us to some kind of program for more help and support. I have never heard of PINS but looking into it now and will tell DH to mention it to the court. The child is very much out of control, and the younger one heading in that direction as well.

I do believe Child Support is a huge motivation. Also, BM and her mother or very controlling and domineering; they cannot handle not having control.

Kind of a long question: When SS came to live with us 2 yrs ago, BM basically agreed to it because her boyfriend struck SS in the head close fisted and she was afraid to lose both boys. She denied it happened, but both children told the then mediator about it. She was admonished by that mediator that she would lose both kids if it happened again. Even though SS still visits his mom, the boyfriend never got anger management. I believe if older SS lived there it would escalate to violence again. Also, younger SS has not been put in court ordered counseling to our knowledge.  Another thing, 3+ years ago, we had an evaluation where a person visited both homes. That evaluator stated in her report that she did agree there was alienation going on on BM's part. At that time BM was ordered to seek 25 sessions of therapy. She never did that either, and the court later disregarded. Should we bring all these things up in mediation, or do you they just get annoyed? They always want to deflect and say it's in the past, but if these things were never done and the same issue remains, I feel it is relevant.

Do any of you know about what if they (BM or SS) are asking for grandma to have custody? Is that even possible if Dad is willing to have him? It seems far fetched to me that they are asking for that..I think that is secondary if they won't let him go back to mom's they are shooting for grandma's house.

[Kitty C.]

Something smells fishy here..........by law, a psychiatrist canNOT prescribe a med (especially if it's a controlled substance) without a diagnosis.  He HAD to code the appt. with a diagnosis in order to submit it to insurance.  And I'm not too sure I would trust this doc if that's what he's telling you.

I can see the writing on the wall with your SS, as I had similar (tho not as severe) issues with DS.  First with schooling.  I'm not sure how the school can provide 'additional help' for a student without getting a formal diagnosis and doing an IEP (individualized education plan).  If he gets a diagnosis that warrants an IEP (sometimes it depends on the diagnosis as to what kind of help they are entitled to), then much more help should be available to him, because the school would be able to get more money from the state to cover it.  Without it, all they can give him is cursory help, which I seriously doubt would work in his situation.

He needs to be seen by a pediatric psychologist, one who specializes in childhood behavior and is properly trained and educated in how to deal with them.  A general psychiatrist will not have this specialized training.  Now, psychologists cannot prescribe meds, but they CAN make a med recommendation, which can be given to the primary care provider to write.  We did this for 10 years with DS and it worked perfectly.  Plus, I had the added benefit of knowing that any changes to his meds were based on recommendations of a specialist, not a family doc who was guessing.

At one point, DS's psychologist recommended residential treatment.  Forewarning:  it is INCREDIBLY expensive unless you can some way miraculously get it covered by insurance or get a student loan for it.  I sent DS to a wilderness therapy treatment program for 2 months in Oregon....at the cost of $25,000 only to find out that it wasn't the kind of treatment he needed.  Shortly after that, he got in trouble with the law, was evaluated in juvenile detention as needing residential treatment (Duh!), and sent to a facility until his 18th birthday (which was only for 6 months, tho he needed a year).  I told his probation officer that if I had known what it would take to get him the help he needed, I would have told him to break the law a whole lot earlier....she didn't bat an eye because she knew I was telling the truth.

This kid is CRYING out for help.  He needs a thorough evaluation with a specialist and any recommendations made MUST be followed through with, or it will just be a waste of everyone's time.  If you need assistance in getting some recommendations done, ask for help, whether that be through the specialist he's seeing, the school (if they can provide it competantly), or the state.  It may also require requests to the court regarding legal custody...if the BM refuses to follow any recommendations, enlist the help of whatever specialist making the recommendation to impress on the court that this child will be in big trouble if the recommendations are not followed and the only hope of that happening is if the father has complete legal custody and possible physical, too.

I mentioned writing on the wall....not to be a 'doomsdayer', but if this child doesn't get some intense help really soon, he may be lost for good.  He's only hit the tip of the iceberg and I would venture to say that there might be other illegal activity going on that you don't know about...he just hasn't been caught yet.  And you don't have much time, either.  I wish you the best, but I see this as a situation where the BM has done a really great job of f***ing up a child.  You have more time with the younger one, but not by much.....but you may have to do the same thing with him, too.

[chickenbubbasmom]

Hi Kitty~

I do have some knowledge of what an IEP is; I was actually able to get one last year for our 4 year old who has a speech delay. Here is what I do know; at the last meeting with the school counselor, BM brought up SS having ADD. The therapist recommended DH go with it and that he would write up paperwork to submit to the school so that SS can get an IEP to get the extra help. Someone is dragging their feet on this one, I believe it is the therapist who I find to be a very likeable guy but a bit flaky and too laid back for what we are dealing with. This is where we were referred by the county and our insurance. Also, the psychiatrist works through the same office as the therapist. I will have to have DH ask the therapist further as to if a specific diagnosis was made, but if so we were never told. It was more like a, "this kid has trouble focusing try this med and see if it helps". I'm very concerned by the therapist saying lets just go with mom's diagnosis. I don't find it to be helpful to the child at all when he has real issues left unaddressed and untreated. I was also very perturbed when we had asked the therapist before last hearing for something in writing stating the duration of SS treatment, basic as possible just to show he was in therapy. The therapist came back and said they are not allowed to do that sort of thing?

I think our best bet at this point is to beseech the court for assistance in finding help for this child. At the ex parte hearing the judge made it very clear that this child does not drive the bus, and he said to DH that the court has new programs in place to help in situations like this. I am very concerned that we will once again be seeing a new mediator that is not familiar with the situation and BM is a masterful liar and manipulator. As of right now SS is refusing to come home Sunday when vacation is over. He is being thoroughly rewarded by BM for turning on DH I'm sure. We will see what happens with that, I don't have much faith in PD they always say their hands are tied they can't physically force the child to return home.

Thank you for the advice Kitty, everyone..I take it to heart knowing you have all
been through it as well. and welcome anything else you have to offer. Thank you!

[Kitty C.]

I'll be honest with you....I do not envy your situation, having been through some of it myself.  All I can tell you is that if your gut instinct is telling you something, go with it and be persistent.