Tired of fighting, when do you throw in towel....long

[mango]

My step daughter whom we have had 50/50 shared parenting for 9 years, and prior to that my husband was her sole caregiver, as mom had other things to do with her life. When we got married, the bio-mom came back around to gain legal custody, and being the mom, although previously uninvolved she was able to gain 50/50.

During those years she has been working hard on destroying the relationships with my SD and her entire fathers side. Grandparents, cousins, neighbors, half-siblings. Intense PAS. It's been difficulat on us all.

We have been in court numerous times with mom trying to sue for sole (at least 5 rounds of battles) Everything from attempts to move out of state, to claiming we are neglectful, to SD not being happy. (None of which she was successful) This last battle the courts flat out told her they will never-ever give her sole. Through all this we have not counter filed for sole (except when she moved her out of state, which she had to move back or the court was going to give her to dad), we primarily fought to keep 50/50 in place.

But the PAS has gone to the extreme, SD (who is now turning 13) has told daddy she no longer wants to see us. She had a long-list of reasons. Her mom always fills her mind with dreadful things about us, and she apparently believes it all. We are a normal every-day family of 6, (no drugs, no abuse, no criminal records, just average folks) and she is not "the" only child in our home, so yes, it is different then at moms, where she is the only one. But it's no reason to condemn us. But one of her main reasons was that she just wants the "fighting" to stop. But she doesn't realize all the fighting isinitiated by her mom. We do not start the court battles, her mom does. In fact, we never even speak of her mom in our home. But her mom slams us every chance.

Anyways, now that it is HER stating flat-out how miserable she is, and how she doesn't want to see us or her siblings, etc. my hubby is seriously considering letting it go. This custody stuff has emotionally and financially crippled our entire family for 9 years running.

It has been so much work fighting to have her in our life and to keep her happy. We all walk on egg-shells to make sure she is happy in our home, and nothing seems to work. The PAS is too impactful and even with strong counseling it gets worse each year.

I know it seems like a cop-out to let go, but for our sanity, and from what it seems we are "torturing her" by making her continue to see us. If we stop seeing her maybe all the hatred she deals (daily) with will dissipate and she can live a normal life... Or ...maybe we should fight to get sole and save her from the mental abuse.

I wish I knew the "right thing" to do....

The ball sort of is (legally) is in our court right now. The old GAL we had (last battle), and the appointed counselor stated (confidentally) that we should counter file for sole. And that she should be with dad cause mom was mentally abusive. Still very hard to prove, and it would still be a long and hard to get actual courts to switch to sole, as it would be a school change too.  And if she doesn't want to be with us, what is the point. SD stated she wants the fighting to stop, and going for sole would only make her mom more venomous and make the whole situation hotter.

Any thoughts or advice.....

[tf11]

SOrry to hear about what has happened.

Not sure if you've heard of the book "Divorce Poison" by Dr. Warshak, but it deals with how to respond to a vindictive ex's efforts to bad mouth you/brainwash/cause PAS, etc...

The book has been out for sometime, so you can probably find it at your library if you dont want to purchase it.

[4honor]

that was mentally abusive. I was 17 and relatively mature for my age. BUT I could not withstand the onslaught my mother threw at me.

Your child desperately needs to feel like her father can rescue her out of this situation. She pushes him away because she is MADE to chose. Each failure to chose her mother causes her more pain than the pain she is causing by chosing a father she knows is not at fault. That kid is torn by what she is being made to do. It is damaging her ability to trust and is setting her up for all kinds of troubles and character flaws... only the flaws aren't little divets (easily overcome) but great sweeping chasms she will struggle with her entire life for some sub-standard version of normal.

Sure, you have successfully defended against the Nazi's, but you have failed to commence D-day and win this for once and for all. You aren't fighting a border skermish, but a world war - her world.

Knowing about what she is going through and not fighting for her may push her away for a very long time, maybe forever. It is hard to forgive unrealized but realistic expectations.

The one thing that finally healed my relationship with my father (though my mother is long dead) is that I point blank asked him why he did not fight harder for us kids (6 in all), why he left us alone to fend for ourselves against her mental abuse. It all came tumbling out after that -- PAS was not known of then. He never knew what we went through. It was then that I could forgive, and could heal. It has been less than a year since it happened and I am 40 now. This has started a whole process in my siblings as well.

[mango]

We pick her up tomorrow. But still have made no decisions on what we might do. I think hubby needs to sit on it for a month until he can get over the feelings of "rejection" right now. Knee jerk response it to let go...

The couselor suggested we either go for sole, or let SD come up with a new visitation schedule that would make her happy (Which would mean cutting our time down, until we are gone). But make it s temporary plan between her and dad, not legally.

But my thoughts are that her bio-mom will never stop (the fighting) until she has completely severed the ties, and a sudo-agreement with dad will not go over.

Another thought is, bio-mom is in this for "the fight" if we give up, she may give her back to us, after the novelty wears out. (it could happen) When she was small she wanted very little to do with her daughter, until "we" wanted to make it legal with us. Then suddenly she moved back into the state and stepped up to be mom. I think her "property" was threatened. She is an Narcisict Borderline personality disorder. Fits all criteria.

We have been through 5 rounds of court battles, each as ugly and costly as the first. If we go one more...yes, she would be 14-15 by the time the case is heard, and she could litterally take us once more before she is 18.

I wish the court had a limit to how many times you could be forced to go into court by ex.

We do have teh Divorce Poision book, and the counselor has given us tips, but her mom is clever in her ways, as she is also education and knows how to persude verbally. (manipulate).

I know we should fight but I do wonder if continuing the fight would do her more harm, especially if she is so far gone that she really wants nothign to do with us....

[4honor]

Do NOT listen to this child's words.

Listen to her actions more. If she come with you and Cannot show affection, cannot laugh, cannot eventually be herself - her old self, then she may be beyond help right now.

If she says one thing and still acts like her old self after a short time with you, then the venom coming out her mouth is not her own.

Kids can ACT for a long time before it invades their actual thought processes. The child will say and do what it takes for survival, even without believing it. When it gets under her skin and into her shoes (so to speak) then you can beleive she is too far gone. When it is no longer just talking the talk, but walking that walk, then it is time to give up.

[mango]

Well we picked her up on Friday, and she was totally fine. Not a word about the "incident" –Nothing. So we just let it go for now.

She was pleasant, loving and affectionate. Shared details of her school on-goings, and was nice to her siblings, and talked of "future" stuff with us as normal.

As usual, we didn't want to rock the boat, so we never did bring up anything and just enjoyed the time.

I figure we should just wait and see what happens next. Maybe she felt she did what she was instructed (by her mom), and she is off the hook with her mom. Hate to tell her, but her mom will keep at it.

Poor kid.

You can always tell when she is being "worked on"

At what point can you just flat out tell these kids "Your being brianwashed -wake up!!" Is it that harmful for them to know the flat-out truth?

[jilly]

We are currently going through something similar.  It's obvious that the Ex is badmouthing DH.  SD has always been moody but at times it's just maddening.  I am reaching a point where I really dislike SD and don't want her around.

SD is also an only child when at her Mom's house.  When she's with us she has to deal with a 4 year old sister (who worships the ground SD walks on BTW).  It's an adjustment for both of them really when SD is there because they're BOTH only children until they're together.  The youngest seems to adjust much better though. Plus, when SD is gone, DD will talk about how she misses her sister.  It's enough to break your heart sometimes.

SD has been hitting DD.  Not hard enough to cause actual damage, but hitting nonetheless. And, of course, she always says that DD hit her first.  I've told BOTH of them that they are NOT to be hitting each other so it's not like I'm showing favoritism.  However, after one weekend where there was hitting going on, I asked DD's preschool teacher if they had had problems with DD hitting any of the other kids.  Her response: No.  I really don't think DD is hitting SD first.  I think SD is using that to keep from getting in trouble.

For some time there was a *truce* between DH and the Ex.  She was actually acting human!  Well something has happened to change that and we don't know what it is.  The Ex and DH had a heated discussion on the phone the other night regarding SD and the Ex hung up on him. She was to schedule a parent/teacher conference for both of them to attend together.  We got an e-mail from the teacher last nigh saying she's requested separate conferences.  What's that tell ya?

SD is only 9 years old right now, but I can see the day coming when she says she doesn't want to come around anymore.  In spite of everything we've done and do for her, she has said several times that she doesn't feel welcome when she's with us.  How the heck can you overcome/combat that?  We just keep on trying to do the best we can to counteract but it gets old sometimes.  I feel like we're fighting a losing battle.

[mistoffolees]

I would suggest a counseler who's an expert in this area. Not so much for the girl as for you. The counseler can tell you how best to deal with it and what you should and shouldn't do. I would take the 'educated' advice and put it along side the 'experience' advice you'll get here.

The counselor may suggest bringing the girl in, but they may not (since it will open a huge can of worms with the ex).

[mango]

Wow! Sounds lvery simila to our life. Our (3) kids, and SD fight to. But it's the typical sibling stuff. But SD goes home to her bio-mom and naturally tells mom only her side of things. She gets the "Oh I'm so sorry you have to 'put up' with that over there" talk. So SD thinks her life is so horrible at our house. Things we really can't control, no matter how hard we try to please, her mom un-do's any good we do.

She is nearly 13, so I guess there will be little we can do at this point. Her mom has nearly completed her mission on severing all ties, and ridding us.

We did start counseling last year but BM will not take her to appointments, and bad-mouths the therapist too. So any good works the therapist does get's un-done as well. It's amazing how fast the PAS can work too.

But the counseling helps us, at least, makes us realize we are not these horrible people BM (and SD) are making us out to be. Afirms what we have been thinking all along too, that her BM is nuts and has no business having even partial custody. But courts don't switch so easy, and at this age, not sure if it would fly to try.

The therapist said as kids (with PAS) hit the teens, they start to question the "programer" and want to know what is really going on....

Maybe all that bad-Karma BM spews out will come back to haunt her someday...

[Sherry1]

when they hit their teens.