Welcome to SPARC Forums. Please login or sign up.

Jun 17, 2024, 01:36:05 PM

Login with username, password and session length

what would u do?

Started by mudbunnies, Dec 01, 2003, 08:16:53 AM

Previous topic - Next topic


i am going to type out a scenario below and i'm asking everyone to just post and tell me, what would u do?

remember guys;  i am a fervent supporter of father's rights, hence the search for moral/ethical guidance here...

child, currently aged 8 (2003)

parents divorced (Spring, 1999)

visitation with this child & father;  

1 week, October, 1999
1 day, December, 1999
1 day, Summer 2001
3 phone calls fall 2001
1 weekend, Thanksgiving, 2002
1 weekend, Christmas, 2002
1 weekend, January 2003
1 weekend, February 2003
1 weekend, March, 2003
2 weeks, summer 2003
1 phone call since summer visit

father has 2 other biological children he allowed a stepfather to adot
father has 1 adopted child he phones weekly and visits never

father has always been aware of child's location, telephone number, etc., bio-mom has made numerous requests for father to keep regular visits and contact

bio-mom informed father prior to thanksgiving visit in 2002, if you come back into this child's life and start regular visits for the love of god & this child make sure you stay, child was devastated when dad abandoned child in summer 2001

father wants to know "pop back into child's life", after the 1 phone call child hid in bedroom, mother sat with child and talked, discovered that child is "scared" "concerned" (you choose your best word for 8 yr old feelings) about dad running away again and being alone with dad, understand that at every other "visit" dad has had a different girlfriend, the last one child became very attached to and even though dad broke up with her the child and girlfriend have kept in contact....

what would u do?

1.  allow dad whatever access he likes whenever he likes, even though it is causing child anguish that he drops her and runs away for months at a time?

2.  ask dad to enter into a "get re-acquainted" plan whereby dad should make several phone calls then visit at mom's house or neutral place, then time alone with child?

3.  any other suggestions?

as i said, i believe in father's rights, i have supported my SO through all his battles, however, i also believe that one should be consistent and constant in a child's life, not abandon them whenever the mood suits u..

so, i'm in a moral dilemma here and i was hoping that maybe someone could make a suggestion that might bring alternatives to light whereby this child gets whats best

thanks guys... sorry to make the brains work so early in the am..

Indigo Mom

My response to your post is the same as my response right below to "shamrock".  

This "father" should NOT be allowed to pop in and pop out whenever he feels like it.  Unacceptable.  


I too believe that BOTH parents should have equal parenting time, just as I believe a child/ren has the right to be parented equally by both mom and dad.

In-out-in-out-in-out-in-out-in-out ... doesn't cut it.  Ya know to some extent, we all parent the way we were parented.  If the parenting was lousy, then we probably are not great at it, UNLESS we are made aware of it by whatever means and modify the behavior.  The single most important role model for a child/ren is the same sex parent.  Now whaddya think this BF is setting as an example in "parenting" for this little guy.

IMO, yes, visitation should be continued ONLY if BF will be consistent.  Telephone calls to break the ice initially, then some supervised visitation where the child can feel comfortable and "safe," graduating to longer visitations.  BF needs to take some parenting classes to open up his eyes to the irrepairable damage he is causing and this poor kid needs to KNOW he can count on his Dad.

Neither right nor fair to waltz in when we feel like being a mom or dad and then disappear for weeks/months on end.



I feel so sorry for your child.  This is terrible.  I can't even imagine.

How does the child feel about this.  What if you asked him how he felt about it, without giving him choices.  Just feel him out.  Would he rather see dad 3 times a year vs. none, and also, how about explaining that dad "just doesn't understand how much you need him and that maybe when you get older, he can spend more time with you?"  

I don't know.  I guess, even at 8, kids are pretty smart.  They know what is going on and what they do and don't want.  I know I knew in 1st grade that my bio dad was terrible.  He was abusive and even at age 6-7, I was smart enough to ask my mom to leave.  She did and we have never looked back.  

I don't know if this helps or not, but I thought it might give you another avenue anyway.  Hope it works out, so sorry for you and your little one....:-(


You need to teach your child about unconditional love.

If you teach your child that he should only love and respect his father when dad does what you want, you are teaching the child that love is conditional, that it's ok to hate those who are less than perfect, and that his dad is a dirtbag.

Children raised like this have trouble accepting parental discipline. They see your anger when they misbehave and think you don't love them anymore. Teenagers raised like this are more rebellious, more likely to use drugs and alcohol, and more likely to be involved in teenage pregnancies.

If you teach your child to love and respect his dad, no matter what, to try to understand how painful it is every time dad has to say goodbye, to appreciate what dad does, that maybe the child doesn't see ("Dad works hard every month to support you, even when he can't make it to visit, and you can bet he's thinking about you. Why don't you write him a letter to tell him how much you appreciate him?") This will also have the side benefit of increasing dad's commitment/desire to spend time with his child.

You apparently have no sympathy for your ex. Having never been a noncustodial parent, you don't understand what it's like to be treated as a second class parent. Your message is full of conditions that you have put on dad's visits, or want to put on his visits, as if the child is your possession and you just let him borrow it every now and then.

This man has been told, directly or indirectly, by at least a couple different women that he's useless/unnecessary in the life of his children. The courts tell him his only value is as a wallet. He doesn't have a supportive spouse like your DH has to help him realize how important he is to the child. Your lip service, telling him he's important while at the same time you consciously or unconsciously put barriers between him and the child, just doesn't undo all the damage that has been done. He doesn't feel like he's important in the child's life. Having the child write often, having him call to tell dad right away when he gets 3 A's, hits a home run, or scores a soccer goal, will help dad to realize that he really is important to the child. Invite dad to these events, but be understanding when he doesn't make it (instead of critical and demanding).

If you are consistent and truly supportive, then most likely dad will eventually come around and be a permanent, positive influence in his child's life. There are no guarantees, but at least the child will be more appreciative of his father, and won't feel so rejected. He/she will understand that dad loves him/her, even though he isn't very good at showing it.


first off, i have been a non-custodial before, with my other child.  i know the feelings, frustrations, wallet experience - first hand i know this.

secondly, dad only informs us where he is when he moves in with a new girlfriend, we have a FILING CABINET in child's room where she keeps all her papers and when we know where dad is, we mail him an envelope, child lives 45 minutes from dad's parents, dad has been offered UNRESTRICTED access at any time during the last several years, we have offered to him, call anytime, see anytime type visitation, we offered to work around any job schedule or anything, we did this because of the child, we made every effort to ensure she had a relationship with her father, we have always encouraged her to spend time with him, to love and accept him....

his adopted daughter that he calls regularly (now) was the person who initiated the one day visit in the summer of 2001, she told her dad, you visit with me & my sister or i dont' want to see you, she's 17 now guys, she's not a child, this child's mother was the 2nd ex-wife, she and i have kept the children in contact with each other and this older child was protective of her younger "little sister" especially when she knew dad was not contacting the younger child.

now understand, dad, who has been gone for several months called two days ago, said he was shopping for child and wanted to know her size, okay i thought, he's thinking of her re xmas, then i hear his mother in the background and he relays my answer to his mother, and yes i was offended, didn't even ask to talk to child, and now he's 45 minutes away on a holiday/long weekend and doesn't even ask to see her?????????

i want our child to have a relationship with her father,
i also want our child to be happy and not have excessive fears like this

last night after i put her to bed i heard her crying in her room, i went to talk to her and she said she was crying because she was scared that i would disappear and she would never see me again...

i can only assume where those thoughts came from...

so the question remains, how to protect a father's rights and protect a child when father bounces in and out and won't spend time with child?


> how to protect a father's rights and protect a child when father
> bounces in and out and won't spend time with child?

A father who "bounces in and out and won't spend time with child" is no father. He's an uncaring jerk.

You can encourage the relationship, but you can't force him to be a good dad. It's sad that there are so many fathers fighting like crazy to be a part of their children's lives, and yet there are some like this one who just don't give a damn.

Indigo Mom

I'm gonna try really hard not to screw up what I'm trying to write...lol

When we bring our kids home from the hospital, no one tells us what we're supposed to do.  As parents, we basically "wing it" and hope we don't mess up too terribly bad.

Mistakes happen all the time.  We, as parents, aren't perfect.  We do the best we possibly can with what we know.  I know I screw up left and right.  I have the best intentions, but these little people are from another planet, one I can't remember being on.  (lol)

When parents split up, we have to learn how to coparent.  We have to make our childrens lives as smooth as possible, because now we have 2 homes, 2 different sets of rules, 2 everything.  We try to get our children to be the best possible person they can be in this new situation.  Again, no one tells us what to do, we "wing it".  And that's ok.

When one parent splits by their own choice, the parent left is also "winging it" because again, no one tells us what to do.  Rather than blaming this parent for the other parent leaving, we need to help them through the tough times.  We need to let this remaining parent understand it's not his/her fault, and we need to let the child know this as well.  

No one is responsible for another persons doings or not doings.  The mother in this situation clearly wants a father for her child, but can't make him be one.  Blaming her is wrong.  Telling her she has no "sympathy" is also wrong.  He bailed on his child.  The person we should feel for is the child, not the one who took off.  

I understand there are people who work alot and aren't able to spend much time with their children, but surely, in a year...this guy can manage to spend more than a weekend, eh?

You wrote about conditions.  The only "condition" I saw was CONSISTENCY.  What's wrong with that?  50/50 won't work without both parents being consistent.  Parenting doesn't work without consistency.  Discipline doesn't work without it either.  Nothing seems to work unless everything is consistent.

The "remaining" parent should have the RIGHT to demand consistency from a bailing parent.  Why shouldn't they?  The one who bails has NO CLUE what they're doing to the child, so obviously they're not thinking about coming around more.  The "remaining" parent is the one who sees the destruction, and that is WHY she's DEMANDING that he stay in her life.

Responsibility lies on the head of this father.  NOT the mother.  She ain't the one who took off, he is.  Nothing she does can change him.  She can send pictures and school work til all the stamps in America have been used, and he won't change UNLESS HE WANTS TO...and i think it's obvious he doesn't want to.

Oh, and before I forget...do you really believe in lying to a child?  I know a parent who has adult children extremely pissed off at her because she did everything you just advised this woman...and her kids are RAGING mad because "it was all a bunch of lies".  This woman has adult children really mad at her because she tried so damned hard to let them know their dad loved them in his own way....but they saw through it.  (not til they became adults, mind you) She didn't want them to hurt growing up, and it all backfired on her.

How can we know a parent loves their child when they only take a few moments here and there to show up?  That ain't love, TGB, that's pure selfishisness.  

Indigo Mom

-----You can encourage the relationship, but you can't force him to be a good dad. It's sad that there are so many fathers fighting like crazy to be a part of their children's lives, and yet there are some like this one who just don't give a damn. -----

Damn you!  I took half a million words to say what you wrote in one paragraph.  


but this is an issue of the "Revolving Door Dad" who won't be consistent in this child's life.  

We ALL deal with some form of inconsistencies with an ex ... I'm sure as hard as I tried to keep my son's father involved in son's life, I failed at being consistent in that relationship.  I'm not perfect, but I did what I could.

And ya know what?  I now have a son who is 24, I did all the things you said "He loves you DS, but he shows it in a different way than I do" or "I know its your high school grad, but Dad's business is really important and he has to pour concrete that day" ... DS has tried to have a relationship with his father, to no avail.  He is a RDD (Revolving Door Dad) who is there ONLY when it is convenient for him (Dad) to be there.  Sadly, DS wants NOTHING to do with his father any longer.  To quote him ... "He was never there for me Mom.  Only when it was easy for him.  That isn't what a parent is supposed to be like."

I don't think any NCP, be it mom OR dad, deserves for the CP or child to bend over backwards for this relationship, given the inconsistencies of contact muddy's ex has had over the past years.

I agree with Indy and Brent - the guy doesn't deserve to be showered with letters and phone calls from his kid.  If it were muddy and the dad was writing here, I'd say the same darn thing.  I don't thing he should be bashed in any way to the child, but to have a little guy write a letter and then wait and wait for the reply when you know it won't be there is akin to mental abuse.  



I only have one thing to say in this entire thread,,, TGB your post was worthless. you need to reread the original post.


My stepdaughter goes through the same crap .Except They moved here far fom dad , We'll call stepdaughter V, I CAN SEE  how it makes V feel good in the very few times that her Dad has contacted Her , And how let down she is with no contact , Even an email from Him brightened up her life a bit , I can see how V , Has huge resistance to Me , I believe this is because I am not her bio Dad , Ther are some problems there because I am not her real Dad, When  she lived near her dad ,He would say he would come to see her , Then he would have some BS excuse ,V began saying She didn't want to go with him etc, I think because He let her down so ,so Many times , But No matter how Many times he let her down she feels good if he communicates in any way ,
   So "get it " I see this as  very damageing to her self [ Not a psych at all ] So for lack of better words , Its about the fact that her REAL DAD doesn't even pay attention to her ,And it hurts her , I have seen her brighten up for some considerable time after he even sent her any thing , I feel that it would be good if He even talked to her once a month or three times a year, Its way better than nothing , My wife for the most part doesn't talk bad about him , except I feel in a co-miserating sort of way to agree with V's hurt feelings , From what I see oN this side of the fence ,
   Yes You have a reason to put a certain condition on this , But on the other hand you may have to take what You can get for your child , I would say let Him care for the child for a while , A long weekend ,Make the condition that Dad Keep the child And tell him Your child needs you ,

 I know for sure If V's Dad took her for even a while once a year , That is better than nothing , And Maybe your Bio Dad [Ex] Is totally disorganised etc , My input ; Send him a letter stateing that He needs to have regular contact , And You see that it is bad for child to have him doing what He has been ,And You will cooperate as much as possible to make visits work for him , Heck don't you need a break? . Call Dad and say , "Cowboy up "I need to have a life  come get your child I have things to do , Try to make him feel important , I See how you would want conditions put down , Laid out , Carved in stone , But look what You are dealing with , I know most of us have a reaction to someone , Especialy, our ex trying to force there conditions on us < think about it ,
  You will have a much healthier child With a occasional Dad then NO DAD AT ALL!!!! wich is the worse of evils ,   However I will state :
   I agree with One condition , If he say's he is going to show then there should be a condition , That He shows up , If He doesn't then I see this as very painful for V , But on the other hand Its as painful to never see her dad , I am rambling , But I still see some contact as better than zero contact ,


However, I believe that many of us can remember being a child of divorce, or a split.  

For MANY years I harbored anger and resentment towards my mother,my father, SM, and 1/2 sisters.

My mother because she left us with our father, and then came (with the new boyfriend, who later became, step, then our adoptive father) LITERALLY in the middle of the night, and took us out of our beds from our father.  Moved us to another state, and enrolled us in school under aliases.

My father, because I felt he did not fight enough for my brother and I.  Because at 9 years old, he told me "I am going to let XXXXXX (SF) adopt you, I have a new family now"  *This was after 1/2 sister #1 was born.  

In looking at things from DH's point of view, he has helped me to understand some things.......  BM took SD much like MY own mother had.  Hid SD from DH for YEARS.  *similar again to my own experiences as a child.  I can see how a father would be hurt, and feel as if his position as a "father" would be twarted.  DH has brought me to a point of great understanding about WHY MANY MEN, have difficulties maintaining a relationship with their children after a seperation.  

They many times feel as if they are a failure, and couldn't keep a marriage/relationship together.   Their ONLY role, in the lives of their child(ren) is that of a paycheck/ATM machine.  DH had expressed to me , that it was VERY emotionally difficult to KNOW he had a child, that was just "gone."  He couldn't be a part of her live, through NO fault of his own.  It was easier for him, to have an "OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND" mentality .  Sometimes, their children are allowed and often encouraged to accept another "parent" into their lives, which AGAIN makes the father feel unneeded.  

NOT to sound sexist or anything, but Men are creatures of EGO.  They seem to have a desire to feel needed.  

SOME DAY, hopefully NOT too late, your childs father will come around.  Of course, when my Ex, was MIA for 18 mos, I searched for his phone number (manipulated a friend or two, to give it to me) I called him and said "Hey Loser, did you forget you have 3 kids??"  IMMEDIATELY things changed.  He has done NOTHING but try and be there for the kids.  Of course, I am a CP who supports the relationship the kids have with their Dad, mostly because as a parent, I want my children to have what I DIDN'T!!

This is in NO WAY a "cut" on anyone.  I know it is not a similar situation in the Original Post.  I guess I wanted to shed some light on reasons that Father's have difficulty at times, with maintaining a relationship with their children after a split.


First, in response to all of the previous posts, Unconditional love is what I want the mother to teach the child, not to demand from the father. Yes, the father should give unconditional love, but if he doesn't then it's her responsibility to help the child get through this, and hating the father is not in the child's best interests.

People who understand unconditional love can love and respect an alcoholic parent or a parent in jail, without enabling them or condoning their actions. They can love and respect an absent parent, without agreeing that that absence is right. They recognize that other people make their own choices, and have to live with the consequences of those choices. The key is being able to forgive.

Let me tell you about two experiences that I have had that might explain what I mean.

Years ago, I was cheated out of several hundred dollars by an unethical businessman. I spent a great deal of time tracking this man down, in the process finding others whom he had cheated. I collected evidence and prepared to take this man to court to recoup my losses, but as I did so I realized that the bitterness that had taken over my life during this period was costing me much more than the measly few hundred dollars this man had cheated me of. I was cheating myself and my family of happiness in my righteous anger and search for justice. At this point I realized that I needed to forgive this man, to move on with my life. I never filed that civil case I had prepared, realizing that doing so would only keep me mired in bitterness for the duration of the litigation.

I realized then the importance of forgiving others. Because I was willing to forgive, I was able to move on. That did not mean I had to protect the man from the consequences of his actions, or even to shirk my responsibility to protect others from similar wrongs. I still turned over the results of my investigations to the prosecuting attorney, and I testified at the man's criminal trial when asked by the prosecutor, but I let go of the anger and did not let my happiness depend on the actions of others.

In another incident a few year later, I stopped to help a family alongside of the freeway with car problems. I was on my way to work and knew that stopping would make me late, but I had an impression that I was needed. The problem with their car was something that could be repaired, with the proper tools, parts, and time. I had the tools, but not the parts or the time.

I drove one of the family members to a nearby parts store, but it wasn't open yet. Proceeding to one some distance further down the road, we found that place closed also, but soon to open. I waited with this man until the store opened and he purchased the parts he needed, helping to explain to the store clerk what was needed (this family had recently immigrated to this country, and had extremely limited skills with English).

Now very late for work and with obligations there that I had to meet, I took the man with me to my work, not far from where his car and family were waiting. I met my boss there and explained what was going on.

My boss was stunned when I walked this guy to the back of my car and showed the man my toolbox, then handed him my car keys. He couldn't believe that I did that. "You will never see that car again!" were his exact words. My only response was, "Maybe not, but I'm fairly sure you are wrong."

A couple hours later I had my car back, with all of my tools still in it, and the undying grattitude of someone I didn't even know and couldn't talk to because of a language barrier.

Unconditional love allowed me to put doing the right thing above my fears. It helped me to deal with life through a very difficult divorce, and it helps me to be happy regardless of my circumstances or the actions of those around me.

Almost every alienating parent I know of complains that the other parent doesn't visit the child, but it's only lip service. Few of them do what is necessary to really get the other parent involved. Instead they throw up barriers, make the other parent feel bad by complaining or arguing with every contact, treat the other parent like a second-class citizen, and generally fail to do what is really in the child's best interests.

I'm not saying that you are an alienating parent, but nearly every parent, custodial or noncustodial, participates in some alienating behaviors on occasion. Those who really care about their children learn to recognize these behaviors and to avoid them. They learn to focus on the positive instead of the negative, to help the child learn that all people have some good in them, and to appreciate what they have instead of resent what they don't have.


I decided to edit my post because I will not lower myself to argue with this person.


1. You cannot DEMAND unconditional love from anyone, only give it. By doing so, however, you greatly increase the chances that you will receive it in return.

2. "Children always forgive the parent that have wronged them..." you said it, not me. At least, they forgive the parent that has wronged them until taught by others not to forgive. "Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little achildren, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matt 18:3

3. You said: [em]Please do not try and say that this child needs to learn to get over it and forgive when someone he loves keeps intentionally hurting him.[/em] The child needs to learn to be happy, to stand on his/her own two feet, and not depend on others for happiness. In this "me" generation, far too many people have forgotten this, and consequently divorce and broken families are the norm. If more parents understood this, fewer children would have to live with broken families.

4. You said: [em]The one that needs to be blamed here is the FATHER. The one that is causing the hurt.[/em] You have only heard one side of the argument. Nobody mentioned who broke up the family in the first place, or why. No matter whose fault it is, the child is the one in the middle. I was offering advice on how to help the child deal with a bad situation. Most of you would just make the situation worse by eliminating visitation entirely. I was the only one who offered practical suggestions that would encourage the other parent to become more active in the child's life, and help the child to deal with it if that didn't happen. I don't believe in parentectomy as a solution in most cases.

5. You said: [em]We all know what unconditional love is, we have it for our children.[/em] I would certainly hope so. It's easy to love a child. The trick is, however, to love those who don't deserve it and teach our children the same. When we do this, then we find that it brings us happiness, too. That is true unconditional love.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

[em]Matthew 5: 43-47[/em]
The teachings above were given, not just as a key to earning eternal reward, but as a way to be happy in life. Those who follow these guidelines will gladly tell you how much happier they are than when they did not do so.


Based on what you mentioned, you only did part of what I said, the easy part. You didn't have the child write frequent letters, call when something special happened, or thank dad for all the hard work he did pouring concrete to be able to provide child support you received.

Most custodial parents give lip service to encouraging the other parent to participate in the child's life, but what they really want is for the other parent to just go away and leave them alone. Then they complain when they get what they want.


> Most custodial parents give lip service to encouraging the
> other parent to participate in the child's life, but what they
> really want is for the other parent to just go away and leave
> them alone. Then they complain when they get what they want.

Unfortunately, this is all too true. Most CPs won't lift a finger to really, truly support a relationship with the other parent. They block access, file lawsuits, make life as difficult for the NCP as they possibly can, and then scream bloody murder when the NCP finally gives up.



I didn't ask my kid to do those things.  I fought with him tooth and nail to call his dad every Sunday; I called him myself about every 2 or 3 weeks to let him know what was going on in DS's life; I called and asked his opinion on what classes DS should take each semester, LISTENED and FOLLOWED what ex felt the correct education should be for DS; I encouraged DS to take advantage of the weekends and longer visitation that he did not want to go on; I did remind him to thank his dad for all the things he DID buy for him.  My ex and I are forever involved with each other because we had a child together.  We are on good terms now.  We talk about what's going on in the kids life and what each of us respectively can to to encourage DS on his life's path.

I guess I didn't do enough.  I failed miserably as a CP encouraging a realtionship between father and son.

And all the while I received no CS - ex claimed he didn't have enough money to pay it.  I chose to not pursue that issue, as he DID buy things for DS occasionally.  Oh yeah ... I'm also one of those money-mongering ex wives, ya know the one who signed over the house to the ex husband, because HE neglected to file his income tax returns for his business for several years, and needed to re-fi the house in order to keep from losing it and going to the klinker?  You know that kind, don't you.  Yep, I just put his rear to the wall and gave up my half of the house and furnishings ...yep - he kept it all!  How could I have been so incredibly harsh and cold?

Perhaps I can atone for all of this by all the hard work I've put in to help DS gain custody of his three children; reminding him of their birthdays and special occasions they had coming up; reminding DH that one of the kids had extra expenses and could we give them money to help out; made sure ALL CS checks when he was NCP were on time and in full (bearing in mind he was involuntarily unemployed due to a plant closure and I was the only one working to pay the CS and support us).

I don't deserve any thanks for what I did, as it was the right and moral thing to do.  I don't want thanks and I'm not being a "weinie whiner" - just the facts of what has occurred over the past 10 years.

Sorry I didn't reach your goal-line.



----Most custodial parents give lip service to encouraging the other parent to participate in the child's life, but what they really want is for the other parent to just go away and leave them alone. Then they complain when they get what they want.----

Are you the NCP? Sounds like it, what happened to 'love unconditionally to even those who do not deserve it? I have been on both sides. It is not the responsibility of the CP to make the NCP feel better. It is the responsibility of the parents, NOT just one parent to make sure that their child is rounded emotionally so they can grow to maturity and be all you expect them to be.

Indigo Mom

-----The teachings above were given, not just as a key to earning eternal reward, but as a way to be happy in life. Those who follow these guidelines will gladly tell you how much happier they are than when they did not do so.-----

The "teachings" you wrote are nothing more than translation after translation by man who felt the need to retranslate to better his "agenda".  The true meaning behind what you wrote has been lost...long ago.

Please don't preach.  Your religious beliefs ARE yours.  Doesn't mean others want to hear your version of what was written thousands of years ago posted by you to make your "point" that this mother is wrong.  

These are MY opinions, not of SPARC nor anyone else.  


So there isn't any misunderstanding, my comments were not directed at you. I was making a general observation, and not commenting on your situation. I think that you're a 'stand up' person, based on everything I've seen of you.


Quite an abrasive reponse Indigo.  

I think, the MAIN focus of this whole post has been lost....  The issue should be, and should ALWAYS BE, the CHILD(REN)!!
This is not a Mom is right Dad is crap thing.  

This child is obviously suffering, lets remember that.  He/she probably already feels confused.  I believe the suggestion of counseling was offered.  Has BM considered contacting BD to facilitate short visits, at a neutral location to "reintroduce" father and child??  Maybe even some joint counseling sessions for Dad and child??  How about BOTH parents attend classes on learning to co-parent????

As far as the religion issue....  MANY people find peace, comfort, and guidance from Biblical teachings.  Each passage is interpreted differently IMO, depending at what they are feeling at the moment.  Everyone gets what they need as an individual, at whatever "place " they are in their lives.

Ok, the soapbox is now free....


I appreciate what you wrote.  As I stated in that post, my intent was NOT to receive any accolades, OR flames.  I did the best I could in my situation armed with the knowledge I had at had at the time.  I am far more educated in these issues now, and perhaps I would have dealt with things differently.  Nevertheless, I did what I did, blah blah blah ....

The subject of the original post was concerning a mother who wanted to protect the child from further psychological damage with a father who "appears" to have little interest in a healthy and consistent relationship.  There are far too many damaged young people in this world who have not had parents concerned, or perhaps educated, enough, to understand so many of these issues.

TGB, I made a choice to NOT post all the details of my former marriage, my ex, etc., out of a preference of privacy - the world doesn't need to know what went on, and frankly it is humiliating to me as an individual.  IMO, given the reasons for the breakdown of the marriage, I have gone over, above and beyond what common sense would dictate in my efforts to better the father-son relationship.  And I continue to do so even now with DS as a young adult of 24.  Nothing would give me more happiness or a sense of wholeness than for DS and his father to come to terms with each other, and have a decent and loving relationship.  I believe with all my heart, that we are given 1 mom and 1 dad in this life, and no one has the right to destroy the child-parent relationship, including either parent who may be acting in a destructive and damaging manner with their child.  Your assumption, TGB, that I merely paid lip-service and/or took the easy way with the issue was so far off base, I was stunned!  

Done with the soapbox, and again Brent, I do thank you for your post.  While some may not share my view it is important to me that others know (yep, even you Brent!  ;-) ) my behavior and intentions have always been, and will continue to be, to promote a healthy relationship for DS and BOTH of his parents, for DH and his 3 children, and any others who may cross my path seeking advice.

I may have approached things in the wrong way or for the wrong reasons at any given point, thus the quote by Maya Angelou, that is on each of my posts ...

I will post nothing further to this thread.

Indigo Mom

-----As far as the religion issue.... MANY people find peace, comfort, and guidance from Biblical teachings. Each passage is interpreted differently IMO, depending at what they are feeling at the moment. Everyone gets what they need as an individual, at whatever "place " they are in their lives.-----

Which is exactly why I believe preaching is wrong, UNLESS the person requests it.  Everyone has the right to their own opinions and beliefs, but NOT the right to preach.  Even though I believe different than many, I respect everyones right to believe in THEIR truth.  

-----I think, the MAIN focus of this whole post has been lost.... The issue should be, and should ALWAYS BE, the CHILD(REN)!!
This is not a Mom is right Dad is crap thing. -----

Again, exactly what I said.  TGB believes the mother isn't doing "enough" to get the father to BE a father.  I simply said that no one can change others.  And no, it's not a Mom is right Dad is crap thing....Everyone else wanted to help mud to help her child...until TGB failed to read the original post.  

-----This child is obviously suffering, lets remember that. He/she probably already feels confused. I believe the suggestion of counseling was offered. Has BM considered contacting BD to facilitate short visits, at a neutral location to "reintroduce" father and child?? Maybe even some joint counseling sessions for Dad and child?? How about BOTH parents attend classes on learning to co-parent????-----

I did suggest counseling.  That way, if the father bails again, and after 8 years of doing it, it's more than likely he'll do it again, the child will have a professional helping her.  Also, since he reminds me of my daughters father, I honestly don't believe he or muds ex UNDERSTAND what they're doing to their child.  It's a long shot, but maybe a professional telling them what they're doing will get them to change. The bm has also mentioned hardly ever knowing "where" the father is, so she relies on him contacting her.  And...coparenting classes would be GREAT.  

-----Ok, the soapbox is now free....-----

Color me a moron, but I've never understood this whole soapbox thing.  Everyone seems to use it, I believe I have too...but WTH does it mean?  lol


Hey Indy and please don't preach the VIEWS of an identified cult.

When were you captured ?  Any plans to exit ?

Are you able to explain the lawsuit impacting CAN and the lives of many young people ?  


Indigo Mom

-----Hey Indy and please don't preach the VIEWS of an identified cult.-----

What?  So now I'm a cult?  Cool.  I wonder how many people I can get to belong to my cult.  What would I call it?  I need to come up with a name right quick and start recruiting members.  

Indy = Cult.  I like that.

-----When were you captured ? Any plans to exit ?-----

First of all, telling you when I was "captured" would make me feel icky.  I would feel violated knowing you knew something so personal. You don't get to know!  I have no intentions of exiting, cause if my being captured torks you off, hell, I'll stick around.  

-----Are you able to explain the lawsuit impacting CAN and the lives of many young people ? -----

Are you able to explain why overweight people are suing fast food chains?  Enquiring minds REALLY wanna know.  

Maybe I can add it to my list of kewl things to do in Indys Cult.  

Indigo Mom

You can not blame Scientology because a few people, while Scientologists themselves, beat or killed their children any more than you can blame the Catholic religion for what some Priests have been accused/convicted of doing to little boys, anymore than you can blame God for the bagillions of wars that have erupted in "His" name, anymore than you can blame the Christian religion for all those abortion doctor slayings done by "Christians", anymore than you can blame Allah  for the 9/11 terrorist attacks, anymore than you can blame Jim Jones because more than 900 people voluntarily killed themselves, anymore than you can blame the Jewish religion for the Jewish ritual murders, anymore than you can blame video games for causing a person to brutally assault another, anymore than you can blame gun manufacturers for killing people, anymore than you can blame Mc Donalds for someone getting extremely overweight.

However, you CAN blame the individuals for these acts.  There are extremes in every religion, in every "group" in every cult.  They're everywhere, Davy.  One thing you really need to understand is that each one of us were born with a mind of our own.  Seriously.  We "are" able to think for ourselves, which means we're fully responsible for OUR OWN actions!!!  Stop this whole 'must place blame elsewhere' crap.  

I guess being held responsible for ones own actions isn't your "thing", eh?