I'm at a loss.

[tulip]

This is really hard for me. Last time I posted concerns about my daughters visitation w/her bf, I felt like I got reemed over the coals. She's 8, and he has never had any consistent visitation with her because he has never really tried to. I have not kept her from him. He has a pattern of seeing her a couple days a month when he has a girlfriend in his life, but then they break up and he ditches her too. Then when he gets a new woman he will reappear. This has happened many times over the years. Now he is single, and to my surprise he still asked to see her last weekend. He asked to pick her up Sat afternoon and when he got here, then he asked if she could spend the night and he would drop her at church in the am. I thought it would be okay so I got her some clothes together. She hasn't had very many overnight visits with him, but he just moved into a 2bdrm apt and set up a bdrm for her.

She made it to church on time, but we missed the first half because she was in the hallway bawling. She was upset because they didn't do anything together. She said all they did was watch movies and then he slept until they had to leave in the morning. The more I heard about it the more upset I got. Later she was talking about the movies they watched, and they were completely innapropriate for a child to be watching. They watched four movies!! Eight hours sitting in the front of the TV. She brought her homework, but didn't do it. Then she told me that one of his bf's friends had come over. I know this friend, and I know my ex, and knowing that this friend was there all night makes it very obvious to me that they were sitting there getting high all night. That's why my daughter was so upset about him not paying any attention to her and why he couldn't get up with her in the morning.

Now I know that he is her father and I cannot control what happens at his house. I also know that he has no legal rights to visitation, it's all up to me (except that I can't force him to be around when he's not.) I am really mad and I don't understand why he even came to pick her if he didn't want to do anything with her. If I only saw my kids a couple days a month, I would want to make the most of it. Somebody please tell me what is the right thing to do next time he calls.

[wendl]

Lots of kids cry or act differently when coming home from the other parents house.  It is not that they have to do anything together, but that they are together.

and you are right you cannot control what happens there, my stepkids live with their mother and watch many many movies that in my opinion are not suitable for kids their age, along with video games they play (at times it is hard because my son who is a teenager is NOT allowed to watch and play things that my younger stepkids are allowed to).

All you can do is comfort your child, do not talk down about the other parent.  My ex does the same thing, now my son only goes over about once a year for the holidays.

Be supportive, do not make excuses for your ex, and do not bad mouth him.  

When my son used to get upset, I todl him "Dad has a different way of showing he cares about you, he is not very open when it comes to telling you that he loves you etc, everyone has their own way).

Good luck.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[Ref]

I just spoke to my mom who STILL PAS's me against my dad. She actually was talking about my little sister (now in her mid-twenties) and my dad's relationship. She said that my sister's best memories of her time with my dad were when they organized his CD collection and did little everyday things like that.

My favorite memories weren't flying to England or going to a fancy restaurant but when we would go to Blockbuster and pick out movies and watch them together. My dad would take us to the grocery store and we would pick out toppings and make our own pizzas at home.

This is my 2 cent psycological evaluation. My dad was not comfortable with us as children. He was nervous about doing the wrong thing and had a lot of guilt about the split. Seeing us was hard for him. He did it anyway, even if it was a little awkward. This was his was of being there and taking some of the pressure off.

If I were to hazard a guess about your ex, he probably is going through the same thing. This is why he needs to be in a happy place (have a new woman) to see his child. This is why he spends so many passive hours with your daughter. This is why he had a friend over.

He sounds like he is really trying. By getting a place with her own room, he is really making leaps here. Give him a break. You know it is not your call and you know that your daughter isn't going to turn into a serial killer for watching too many movies.

I have to say, NC's get f'ed. Either they are accused of being "Disney Dads" or they are accused of being overy passive and BORING.

As far as inappropriate movies go, everyone has their own line. DH and I thought love scenes and some cursing is ok when SD was younger.We did not like her watching violence. BM hated SD seeing any love scenes or any cursing, but was OK with SD watching violence. Either way, SD is a pretty normal teen now so I guess these thing really didn't effect her.

Another thing is that you shouldn't guess what happens with his friend. I have a friend who is NC and his best friend was the biggest pot smoker ever. This guy used to light up a joint like most smokers light up cigs. My friend would NEVER have exposed his son to the pot smoker. Even the pot smoker would have NEVER done it infront of my friend's son. Jumping to conclusions like that will only get you fired up with really no justification.

It seems like you really have a need for control. It is understandable, but for your mental health and for your daughter you really need to get over it.

Next time he calls, I think you should tell him if DD has homework and what it is. Look up things to do in the paper and let him know that "while I was reading the paper I saw (the event) was going on. DD would really like that. What do you think?" Don't tell him what to do, but suggestions like that shouldn't be too much of a problem. The only way I can see him getting upset is if you have told him what to do in the past. He might still be on the defensive.

Good Luck
Ref

[dearsirena]

admitting that you were a victim of PAS.  I know many who have been but refuse to admit it because they still want to be the victim of a father/mother who left home, who wronged them, etc.  I know there are cases where this is true but as a friend of mine said a few days ago (thanks C!), those of us who have been through it can smell it miles, even states (LOL) away.  There truly is a PAS vocabulary.......

I am sorry that you had these unfortunate things happen during your childhood but you give me hope for my Skids.  You are remarkable!  I just wanted to say thank you and if you would ever share the things that made you recognize PAS and at what age I would be truly appreciate hearing a different viewpoint.

Sirena

[4honor]

that BF was smoking pot, then urine test your child. She will test positive if she was exposed second hand to it.

Tulip, please realize that your child was probably VERY disappointed that her father is NOT the person she has built up in her mind. It will take some time for her to make her way, so to speak, in her relationship with him. It may never be all that she wants and desires, but it will begin to fill the father shaped hole in her heart. He can only learn to become the father she needs by getting to know who she is. If you pull the access after every attempt on his part, he will stop the attempts, so carefully weigh the matter.

As a CP, you probably have no idea the emotional entropy that an NCP  must overcome to get into the pattern of regular visitation with their child. Further, men as a whole, feel things deeply, but have not only not been properly taught to relay those feelings, they have been taught specifically to hold those feelings in. The love they feel for their children is a hard issue for many and they never find it easy to show thier love  in concrete ways that the children can relate to. It gets easier sometimes after the kids grow up and have children of their own.

As far as not wanting to be with her, he hung out with her... it's a guy thing. He will need to be re-educated about what girls do, as he is not accustomed to what she needs at this stage. Cut him a little slack, he's still learning and is way behind the curve... but trying.

You have a fine line to walk here. If you step in too much and coddle her, if nothing is really going on that is harmful to her, then you have effectively prevented she and her father from working out the relationship -- something that happens sooner or later in every relationship. If you force her back and there is some drug abuse occurring in front of her, then she could be harmed physically and emotionally.

I suggest the urine test for HER to rule out the use of drugs in her presence. (cause even if you got an order for a drug test on him, you could not prove if it was done in her presence.) If it comes back positive for drugs, you take steps to ensure her safety and well being. If it comes back negative, stop the worrying and work on what you know... that here is a growing child who probably still believes in fairy tales where her father is concerned, and instead of the prince, she got the jester.

Tell her she has some responsibility in how her relationship with her Dad goes. Relationship is like planting seeds, You do an awful lot of work before you ever see the fruits of your labors.

Also, every night pray with your child for her father. It will affect her perspective on him, it will KEEP your attitude toward him in Kingdom order, and God will soften her father's heart toward her... and everybody wins.

Oh, and I can see from your post that you have the God given gift of Mercy. You have compassion and can commiserate with people and get involved in their feelings as if they were your own.. in God's Kingdom, this has a place -- in moderation. In the parable of the prodigal son, you would have been tempted to get in the pig pen and cry with the prodigal son -- unfortunately, that would have kept him from returning home and reconciling with the Father.

Just make sure you are not doing that in this case with your daughter.

[tulip]

I appreciate the things you said. Sometimes I don't know if I will ever be able to do this right, and it helps when people like you can gently point me in the right direction without biting my head off. I know what it's like to have parents speaking against each other, and to this day, I don't feel comfortable talking to my mom about my dad, which is sad because she is one of my best friends. I don't ever want my daughter to feel that way about me.

I like your suggestion about praying with her for her dad; my dh has done this with my skids for a long time, and I think it means a lot to them that he cares enough about them to pray for their mom.

I don't really think that BF was smoking pot in front of her, but I think he was doing it while she was there. He would probably go into the other room or outside though. I know that there are a lot of people who drink and get high, but wouldn't do it when they have to care for their kids, but I lived with this one for years, (when he had two kids from a previous relationship) and he is not that responsible. He's very loving and affectionate to her, and spoils her to the boards most of the time, but he also makes her a lot of promises he will not keep.

I'm just worried about my girl. I want to protect her bad influences and heartbreaks, but I know I can't.

[POC]

Tulip,

Obviously, smoking pot is illegal. But, smoking it in front of your child has to be one of the 7 sins of parenting, if there is such a thing. Just as obvious is your intimatte knowledge of the father's habits and the friend's who came over. That leads to the next question, which you may not like, but nevertheless, must be asked - do you smoke pot or do any other drugs too?

Children should not be subjected to parental use of illicit drugs. If the father and/or yourself are doing drugs in front of the child, then the child needs to be protected and the offending parent needs treatment.

Assuming no drugs are being used in front of the child, a more regular pattern of sharing time with one another needs to be established. Short of demanding that your child be safe, you can't really tell him what to do with his time any more than he can with you. I'm not sure why he has "no rights" to see his child, but must assume that you were not  married to him when the child was born. That is an issue, as there seems to be many others too. But, before going any further, the question of parental drug use needs to be addressed.

[tulip]

I would be quite a hypocrite if I were sitting here complaining about my ex's drug use and I was using drugs myself wouldn't I? No, to answer your question. I do not use drugs. I used to, but I gave it up years ago. After becoming a Christian, I decided that I did not want to doing things in my life that I would not my kids doing or would be ashamed to tell them I was doing. After that I would have an occasional beer after the kids went to bed or a glass of wine with dinner until last year when I enrolled in a Christian college and had to sign a conduct clause giving up all alchohol.

I don't know if my ex is smoking pot around my daughter or not, and I know that if I asked him he would tell me no whether he was or not. As far as him needed treatment, I know that he needs treatment. In fact, he has been court ordered to treatment more than once because of his driving record. I think I may take the suggestion of bringing her in for a drug test the next time she visits with him. That's the only way I can know for sure.

The reason he has no rights is as you guessed, we were not married when she was born, so I have sole custody. He has never persued getting any formal visitation schedule or obtaining a court order. He has never needed to. I have never denied him visitation with our daughter. He sometimes calls at the last minute and we already have plans, but then I offer to arrange a different time. He has been walking in and out of her life for years, and that's why the visitation has been inconsistent.

He said that he wanted to take DD out for dinner tonight. I will try talking to him about the movies, but I don't think he will listen. Last night my husband told me that yesterday he heard her talking to our other kids in great detail about the sexual situations in the movies she watched over. She is 8, and shouldn't be thinking about sex, let alone talking about with our 13, 10 and 4 year old.

Thanks for your concern.

[POC]

The circumstances that you describe are much as I suspected. It would have been very odd for you to have known what you said without some type of first hand knowledge. It is also understandable, in fact expected that a parent would amend their ways once they know that they will have a child. After that point, nothing is about you any more.

If the purpose of your post was to vent, feel free to keep doing so. If it was to look for advice, I will give mine. Period, end of report, I would not want my child to be anywhere near drug use. You are well justified to take prudent measures to determine if that has occurred, and if so to cease it from happening in the future. By no means should your 8 year-old child be viewing sexual type movies that are beyond her years. However, that is a gray area, which I will not delve into. But, at some point, it becomes wrong beyond refute.

The best thing for your daughter would be if she could benefit from a meaningful and substantial relationship with both you and her father. That being said, it is not possible for all children to receive such type benefits. Every parent's first obligation is to provide safety to their child. My first hope is that the situation is not the worst that it may appear to be. If it is, then I hope the father can amend his ways to become a meaningful and substantial part of his daughter's life.

Do your best. That is all anyone can ask.

[gipsy]

If you have become a  Christian , Then you surely have read the parts of the Bible that talk about being of sober mind , And to take these issue's to the person you re talking about , And if they don't understand then bring a brother or sister as a witness ,
  Ok Enough of the lesson in theology ;
 Because we all know what the Bible say's basically , And say's not to bear false witness against  your brother etc ,
  So ; Here's the deal  , And I have been through the whole court system etc , And Atty's Judge's . And Guardian Ad Litems , Are all tired of hearing these stories about how bad the other parent is ,
   Unless you have proof then You don't have a case , So I did not see any thing that say's you had any proof ,
   Now another take on Dads and Daughters , I had a step Daughter, And I just couldn't really identify with girls ,
  But I can say , My step daughters Dad did not pay any attention to her , And It IS A BAD DEAL !!! . So Although she may be upset ; If he pay's some attention to her then You are much better to let this be as it is than the result of NO FATHER , . Because the rejection My Step Daughter has sufferd is something you really need to think over before you get all wrapped up in this ,ANd don't think you can replace him with a new guy , I was no replacement for my stepdaughter , problems related to her dad were big part of why I divorced the mother ,
   Whats really wierd here is that you knew this guy well enough to have a kid with him and you don't know if he would smoke pot around a kid ?
  I think you know the answer to this question ! I do not suggest that you exploit your daughter by the piss test , what are you going to tell her it is ! Why don't you just ask her if they were rolling their own ?
     What I see here is so typical you have found Every thing to accuse and Talk  about , And zero proof , This seeems to be designed for the purpose of fault finding , And finally what doesn't make sense is you say Your 8 Year old was talking about sexual situations , Thats VERY WEIRD ,
  Very simalar to Allegations  made about me . Where my son out spoke his age , I would really like to know  With a depth where you theorize that an 8 Year old has the capability to recognise , Sexual situations , And even know what sex is , Or how to put any of that into words ,
 The reason I say this is I have In depth knowledge , Basically was falsley accussed , And talked to a Professional liguistic analist , And found that certain testimony about certain aged childrens ability to reiterate . And put into words situations that are far beyond there years of understanding is Impossible to believe , And even if abuse happened they have a very limited ability to explain it ;
  So I really would like you to explain how a child of this age has enough knowledge to explaing to other kids what a sexual situation is