Driving w/o a license- this is priceless

[Mamacass]

So we found out at court a few weeks ago that BM doesn't have her license.  Not sure when she lost it, but we know that she's been driving anyways.  At court we were also awarded custody, and BM's first court scheduled visistation isn't until Christmas.  She asked if she could pick up SS from school the other day and take him out to eat.  
Since the last few times we have seen BM (court and at SS soccer game) she had a family member or friend drive her, we assumed that would be the case on Tuesday.  We won't make that mistake again, because when she dropped SS off, she was driving!  and SS said she was the one who picked him up from school as well!  
what on earth is she thinking?  Doesn't she know that if she gets pulled over, the police are going to take her son?  I'm not sure who they would call first, us or Child Protective Services.  Probably both.  
Oh and get this.  When my SS told me that his mom drove to pick him up, the words slipped out before I could help myself "but Mommy doesn't have a license."  No big deal, because this isn't news to him, but still I don't like to discuss adult matters with him.  Anyways, he replies"well she had her sister's license."  What?!  Is that what she told him?
We're trying to be cool.  We understand visitation doesn't give her much time with SS.  But come on!  
When she asked for last Tuesday, she also asked if he could come spend some time with her this weekend.  She wants him to come with her after his soccer game this weekend.  My husband plans on carding her.  It feels really ridiculous, but she has to know that we are not ok with her driving with SS w/o a license.  Now anytime she wants to have him we have to make sure she has a driver first.  We're gonna sound like the parents of high schoolers "Who's your designated driver"?  If you don't have someone call us and we'll pick SS up."
I swear, if I couldn't laugh about the dumb stuff she does, I'd go nuts.  

[Sunshine1]

This is an area that I am an expert in.  BM went a whole 2 years without a license and it accompanied a LONG list of excuses to the kids, the police said it was ok, she got it back, she can drive at night only, you name it we heard it.

You need to start doing the following:

Never let SS go with her if she is driving....EVER!  If she is in an accident, and she has no license, that means she ALSO has no insurance and you are COMPLETELY responsible for SS financially if he requires any medical attention.  She will get off and out of it entirely.

EVERYTIME you see her driving, call her in.  If she has no license, she has no insurance and that is illegal.  You should have called her in when she dropped him off.

They will ticket her every single time and most of the time they will tow your car and they will take you into custody until you get a ride home.  Each ticket is at least 100.00 each and every time and you need to make a court appearance.  After so many and the wrong judge they take your license.

You are endagering SS everytime you know about it and let her do it, and if the wrong person finds out like a teacher or a counselor they will need to report it and then that puts you in question as to do you have his personal safety in mind and are you a competent parent.  You will then be investigated.  Not so fun.  You do not sound like highschool parents.  

This is very real, and there is a reason she lost it in the first place.  She is not allowed to drive.  Would you allow him to get in the car with a kid from school that has no license?  I am guessing that is a big fat NO.  :)
You can card her all you want but it won't make a difference, she still has her plastic.  It is legal for you to call in the the police department to run a check on her.  Call them and tell them her name and birthdate and address if you have it and ask them if she is a valid driver.  Driving records are up to the minute current on everyone.

Believe me BM has pulled every single excuse with the police department, saying she just took care of it on Friday and it is Friday night for pick up and she gets a big fat chuckle everytime because the moment you remedy your license (except for revocation) it is instantly restored. BTDT 4X's!

So put your foot down, you should treat this like a drunk driver.  No way, no how should you let SS go with her if she is driving and you can't verify if she is valid.

Good Luck. ;)

[Mamacass]

We don't plan on letting her take him if she can't show us a valid license.  And in the future, we plan on asking her who will be driving if she is going to pick him up from school.  But when he is with her, there's no way for us to keep her from getting into a car with him.  All we can do is make it known what our stance is.  and I guess if she keeps pushing the issue, we could cut her down to court ordered visitation only.
But by calling the police everytime we see her driving, I think we'll do more harm than good.  It seems like we'd just be stirring up trouble, when at this point we want to try to keep the peace as much as possible.  I would hope she would get the point when we ask to see her license, or ask who her driver will be.  
Thanks for the info about running a check on her through the police.  I may actually try that tomorrow morning before the soccer game.  

[Sunshine1]

If you just ask her to see her license, that doesn't mean a hill a beans.  You get to keep your plastic.

Put it this way, would you call in a drunk driver?  If you don't have a license you don't have insurance.  The cops don't tell her who called her in.   You would think after getting pulled over a few times they would stop driving, but they don't.  She thinks she is above the law.

By not calling her in when you know she is driving is just plain reckless, and she puts everyone else at risk.

She don't have a driver, he doesn't go with her.  Why would you care if your stirring the pot??  You didn't break the law you are enforcing it.

Police take this extremely seriously.  If she was stopped say randomly just for a tail light or whatever, she would be arrested and/or taken into custody, her car towed to the impound lot, and she would have to wait for a ride.  They can't let her continue driving home because IT IS ILLEGAL TO DRIVE WITHOUT A LICENSE OR INSURANCE ON YOUR CAR!!

The police ran a check on our BM at an exchange and instructed us to wait until she could arrange transportation because they would not let her van leave with her driving it, and if she couldn't arrange it we were to go back home.  They were ready to write a report on the incident in case she came after us for contempt.  Plain and simple they didn't give a rats butt it was her visitation time, she was a misdemeanor waiting to happen to them.

Its not something you can let slide when you feel like it.

[williaer]

Ok- I was reading the response to the original post and thought, I need to step back and look at this. It is clear that no matter how much this woman may be an idiot- she just wants to see her kid. Quite frankly if she gets pulled over- she will be in trouble with the law...you are the custodial parents of her child- not the law. If she wrecks and he is hurt- then she is liable for any medical bills, he was in her custody and she would be responsible for the damages to the other car and anyone injured by her actions- the same as you would if you wrecked with him in the car.
I never saw why she had it taken away- there are a million reasons people lose their license. You can lose it if you accidentaly let your insurance lapse and you get caught- that doesn't make you an unsafe driver...idiot and liability maybe, but not necessarily an un-safe driver. Certainly I understand if she had DUI's or reckless driving- but did you take issue when she did have her license?
I'd almost say this sounds like a control thing and "something you have on her"- don't get me wrong- I do see your point- but to call the cops on her every time and make each visit a dramatic/traumatic incident for SS seems like going overboard to me. We all want to see sucky bio's suffer- but is it worth it in the end if your SS has to sit in a police precinct or be taken to childrens services until you get there to pick him up?? Or even to take away the little time he gets with his mother. I am a SM and believe me, I would love it if my SK's were content with me and thier dad, but they aren't and never will be- all kids want the love and attention of thier bio parents and impeding that will only serve to make your life harder and leave you answering a lot of tough questions in the years to come.

[lucky]

And were told that if we KNEW she was driving with the kids in the car, WE could be investigated by child protection ALONG with her for endangerment/neglect, etc.  Even if we couldn't stop her because we didn't know WHEN she was doing it.  And it didn't matter WHY she didn't have the license, just that she didn't have it.

Our only recourse was to turn her in because she had absolutely NO intention of trying to get her license back (it was around $1,000+ to do so, plus insurance costs) and would have continued to drive without it.

In our case, that worked for us because she'd already been busted enough times in the past for no insurance that she spent a few weeks in jail.  Our kids were old enough to understand that she broke the law too many times and the judge didn't like it.  Of course, we NEVER let on that WE were the ones to turn her in and we made sure to do it on OUR time so that the kids weren't with her when she got pulled over.

Just my 2 cents.

[em]Lucky

Lead your life so you wouldn't be ashamed to sell the family parrot to the town gossip.
- Will Rogers[em]

[Sunshine1]

2 people, WITH EXPERIENCE  in this matter have given you advice.  This isn't a control thing.  Williaer is quite wrong and that she will be liabel for his medical bills.  YOU will be SOLELY responsible for his medical bills in case of an accident.  You are the Custodial Parents.  She has no insurance coverage when your license is suspended.

Obviously you posted to get some advice...please listen and take it.  It doesn't matter WHY her license was suspended or revoked.  She ain't got one, she is not allowed to drive and Lucky is seriously right, you will be investigated for endagerment, that is how we found out in the first damn place that her licesnse was suspended.  Her LANDLORD called it in and thought we knew about it.

Been investigated, been to court, talked to insurance on both ends, spoke to an attorney, spoke to a judge, many police officiers on different shifts on exchange nights, and every statement I have made is completely true.

Take it or leave it, but in my experience, it is not worth going through all of the above.  Just call her in and be done with it and don't endanger your SS.

[dipper]

File to have this put in the court order - NO unlicensed drivers shall transport child at any time.  You do not need an attorney for this - its cut and dried.  

Two years ago, bm had this put because dh was unlicensed due to lack of insurance.  now, this was hypocritical because she had drove the children around for 12 years without a driver's license - her's was due to bad driving.  She got her license back and then used it against dh that he did not have one.

Not having insurance did not make dh a bad driver.  He is an excellent driver....and got his license back shortly after this was put in order.

If you are concerned about her seeing ss, you can always offer to drop him off at her home at a time convenient to you and pick him up.  Just put it in terms of concern for him - that if she is pulled, he will be taken.

I do think you would be held responsible for knowingly letting him ride with an unlicensed driver.  Also, you would be responsible for bills because she doesnt have insurance and probably would not have money to cover the immense bills if something should happen.....

[williaer]

I'm really not trying to start a debate but the simple fact that you have experience doesn't amke you an expert. I wasn't saying YOU were wrong- I was saying- step back and take this one issue at a time and remember that in the interest of fostering an on-going civil relationship with the biological parent of this child- there are alternatives to going in gang busters with the cops every single time.

WE don't know the whole story and as another poster pointed out- there are plenty of situations when people don't follow the law to the "T" and it is worked out.

Life isn't always about anger and revenge- things can be worked out civilly and for the record, how do you know that the BM hasn't been court ordered to cover his health insurance? The original post-er never said she want'---isn't that what would pay for his injuries if he were to recieve them in this hypothetical car accident? I understand what you are saying about car insurance- and if she carried liability it would cover the other driver...but if they have health insurance it will cover the child and the insurance company will sue BM to recover their money...

Again- just because you have had an experience doesn't make you the expert..so ease up.

[Mamacass]

So I tried calling the local police department, and they told me that they can't release that information (as to whether she has a valid license).  They said to try the DMV.  I have emailed them to see if they can release that info, and I'm waiting to hear back.  Anyone have any other ideas?  By the way, she drove her self to court this morning, so its a possibility that she has had her license reinstated.  I can't believe she would risk driving to court without a license.