Is ex denying visitation?

[awakenlynn]

We are court ordered to pay for transportation for spring break and thanksgiving/christmas.

Ex is stating that the flight must originate in the airport of her choice and it must be non-stop.  

She argues that the connecting airport is too complicated for the SD and the flight attendant to manuver thru safely(Dallas/Ft. Worth) and she just doesn't trust the airport or the attendant.  

Ex recently moved and the airport she choose is an hour away from her.  If we got the non-stop flight, it means we have to drive an extra 3.5 hours each way, twice a visit with an additional cost of $400 for the entire visit.

We agreed to keep SD on non-stop flights until she was 13, which she did a year ago.  SD has now been flying for 3 and a half years.

We cannot do the extra driving anymore.  We are just not financially able to.  (Ex makes 3X's what we do). My husband has to take a day off of work (and still pay child support), we can't come up with and extra $400 and our car is older and we are afraid that it just won't make it.
(One flight with the ticket, unaccompanied minor fee and extra driving makes up about 3-4 months of child support)

We have a perfectly good airport in our community.  We would like SD to fly into it.

Ex states that she is not denying the visit, that we are because we refuse to put SD on the flights that meet her conditions.  There is nothing in the court order that states she gets to determine the flights, that we are responsible for the costs.

Are we the ones denying the visit, or is she?
Do we fly the SD with the non-stop (ex would have to drive the 3.5 hours each way) or do we go with the stop-over and have SD fly out of the city ex wants?

Any thoughts or advice?

Thanks,
Lynn

[Kitty C.]

Unless it's specifically court-ordered, there's no restrictions on how she flies and into which airports, except by the FAA.  And since she's 13, she's been able to fly with one stopover for 5 years.

Before DS was 8, we had to drive 4 hours each way to get him on a non-stop flight, 1000 miles every time he flew.  Because of his maturity level, his dad and I agreed to extend this for one year.  After that, he had to fly with only one stop.  We still drove the same distance (in the other direction) only because the flights were cheaper.

Your SD is certainly elligible to fly as an unaccompanied minor and unless your ex is able to get it CO'd otherwise, all you legally have to follow are the FAA guidelines in regards to UAM's.  I'd go to as many commercial carriers and print off the UAM info for all of them and give them to the ex.  With very little deviation, they all will be the same.  And if you book a flight with one stop, there's absolutely nothing the ex can do about it.  Oh, she could try to get an emergency hearing, but she would have to justify to the court why your SD must fly non-stop.  Do you think she could come up with that, other than that's what SHE wants?  Probably not.

So be prepared to go to court over the issue, but remember that if it isn't court ordered, you wouldn't be in contempt if you schedule her otherwise.

[notnew]

What does your order say? That is what you must stick to. Nothing else. If it doesn't say it, then arrange as to what is best for you and tell her to either follow the plan or face contempt hearings. If she balks, follow through. She has been pulling the strings and you have to yank back.

[mistoffolees]

Going to court over it is likely to be expensive and leave no one happy. You're looking at twice a year for the next 4 years (until your SD is 18) at most. Is there a compromise that would make you happy? For example, you are well within your rights to do the connecting flight, but what if you offered that you would go ahead and drive to the non-stop airport if the other party pays the extra expense (both for the different in ticket prices and your travel costs)? Maybe you could find something to do in that city so that the trip wasn't entirely just to drop off and pick up at the airport.

Personally, I agree with the concerns about stop-overs. One airline wanted to make our SDs (ages about 16 and 17, IIRC) stay overnght in the airport with no supervision when they canceled a connecting flight. I would personally deal with a considerable amount of inconvenience in order to avoid a stop-over.

I know it is a pain, but so is going to court over an issue that is going away in 4 years (8 more visits).

[Kitty C.]

What airline was it??  When DS was 11-12 (and already a seasoned flyer), he was due to come home after Christmas with his dad.  His flight to Denver was a go, but his flight from Denver to Omaha was cancelled.  I have a lot of family who live in Denver who could have picked him up, but the airline was adamant that that he not even leave Sacramento until Denver was re-opened to outgoing traffic.

I guess we've been lucky, but we never had any problems the whole 10 years that DS flew by himself.  But we always went with United, too.  And he flew enough miles to cover 2 round trip tickets!  Those FF miles sure came in handy!  

[awakenlynn]

We also have our concerns about stop-over flights, but we need to look into all our options. The connecting flight is either 3.5 hours from ex's house or from our house depending on the flight.  So if there was ever a cancellation, it would become an emergency.  As to ex driving the 3.5 hours, it takes her to the airport that would be the one that has the connecting flight.  Since she is concerned about the largeness of the airport, then she would be there to get the SD to the gate instead of the flight attendant.

If ex wanted to pay for the extra costs associated with us driving to Chicago, that would be fine.  But she will refuse as that would not be 'convenient' for her.  We would try and do something so it would not be a lost day, but my husband has to take off a day of work(the less income now to come home), we have to be up about 6am to make the drive, sit in the airport and wait, and we get back about 4pm.  We don't have the money to make the trip much less have the money to do anything extra.  We have to use the money for the drive so there is no money to do ANY activities while SD is here.  So she sits here bored for a week and a half.  She can only watch so much tv and we don't have cable.  

Ex knows what the UAM rules are.  We have sent he the copy.  We use one airline.  That way we know the airline and its rules.  It's easier than keeping track of more than one and all the changes that occur here and there.

But why can't the shoe go on the other foot, why can't ex drive the same 3.5  hours and then she still gets the non-stop.  

I am not being petty, just asking.  

Is she in contempt for not putting SD on the flight(stop-over or non-stop-but not the airport she picked)?  Or are we denying the visit for not doing what she demands?

Thanks,
Lynn

[Kitty C.]

(Slap on the forehead)  Of course!  Thanks, notnew!

Absolutely, if you schedule and pay for the flight, all within the parameters of the CO and guidelines of the FAA, she doesn't have a leg to stand on.  And definitely file for contempt if she refuses.

If you ever have to go to court for contempt on this, or she requests a hearing in regards to it, offer her this compromise:  You would be willing to fly SD non-stop, but ONLY if the ex pays for the needless costs that you will incur, along with the flights.  If she knows she could be hit in the wallet, she just might back down.

[MixedBag]

Is there anything else in the order that says WHO has the final say in making decisions regarding to the child?

As the NCP who pays for and arranges transportation, I filed a motion for clarification on this subject and the judge sided with me.  

However all judges are different.

Not sure it would be "contempt" on the mother's part for not putting the child on the plane.  Seen a BM express soooooo many unfounded concerns that would make you barf, because her main goal was control and not what's in the child's best interest.

Negotiate or mediate to the best of your ability first.

You've been given some really good ideas.

AND lastly, go to soc's section of these boards.  Search on "elements of contempt" because there are three.  Too tired tonight to remember what they are -- but it's the third one that would concern me in your situation.

The order isn't CLEAR enough to find her in contempt because she will whine and say she's worried about the child.....and that will get her out of it.

This comes from a parent who has flown 6 kids around the country to include Hawaii.....for 18 years now.

[mistoffolees]

>
>But why can't the shoe go on the other foot, why can't ex
>drive the same 3.5  hours and then she still gets the
>non-stop.  
>
>I am not being petty, just asking.  

Of course. I must not have read carefully enough and missed that option. The way I would do it is to tell the ex (preferably in writing): "I'm putting her on the connecting flight with the following schedule which is allowed by our divorce decree and FAA rules. However, if you're willing to pay the difference in fare and drive the extra distance (about 3.5 hours each way) to the xxxx airport, I can put her on the direct flight".

There's nothing that says that you should be the one to be inconvenienced. OTOH, there's nothing to stop her from being a PIA. Offer what you think is a reasonable alternative (such as the above paragraph) and see what kind of response you get.

The worst that can happen is that she refuses to drive the extra distance or pay the fare difference, but you would at least be able to demonstrate to the court that you tried to address her concerns.

Of course, she might turn it around and ask you to drive the extra distance. You could refuse or you could say "OK, I'd be willing to do that, but you'd have to pay me $0.48 per mile (or whatever)."

I'm a firm believer in trying to resolve this issues out of court, if possible. The easiest way for you to do that is to offer to meet her demands (direct flight) and tell her what it's going to cost her (extra driving time). That puts the ball in her court, but you've tried to be flexible.

>
>Is she in contempt for not putting SD on the flight(stop-over
>or non-stop-but not the airport she picked)?  Or are we
>denying the visit for not doing what she demands?

I have an opinion, but it's not going to be very helpful. I'd ask Socrateaser.

[awakenlynn]

We use AA.  They have been really good.  

We too should have enough by the time SD turns 18 to get one free ticket.  We wait for that day-one trip we do not have to stress over finding the money and not paying bills.  No worry about the mortgage or losing utilities.

Lynn