George, what the hell were you thinking?

[john5739]

Good movie, great quote.  Thanks for helpful response.

 I guess I guard the fragile little bit of hope that I still have that this whole issue of divorce and custody and the messed up court system will somehow resolve itself with some humanity and justice.  I realize it's a fantasy, but it's what I cling to.

I feel sorry for people who are messed up in substance abuse, with mental illness and other problems.  Sometimes I believe the system actually causes these problems to become worse.  I'm not making excuses for the poor choices people make, I just think the courts and children's services are messed up.  I do believe that helping parents even when they have problems can benefit the children.

[kiddosmom]

We all have hope, otherwise none of us would be here :)

I myself am not completely sorry (note i said not completely) for the people who are messed up in substance abuse. BECAUSE I also believe these people need to make better choices, yes those choices are hard to make, but any person can use the excuse that i did it for this reason or that. There is no reason for doing anything, it is a choice, to do or not to do.

---I just think the courts and children's services are messed up---
You are right here, they are messed up, and I frankly would rather put money into making it better and safer for children then paying for their parents poor choices, children do not have choices.

[john5739]

Don't you believe to some extent that if you throw away the parent you throw away a part of the child too?  From my personal experience I know that no matter how much my mom abused me I would have given anything for her to have received help.

My mom did some pretty horrible things.  Many people get mad at me for having anything to do with her now, but no matter how much I've tried to get away from it, she will always be my mother and I am a part of her.  I don't take her abuse anymore, but I'm also not going to punish her for what she can't even realize that she's doing.  She is mentally ill as are a large number of substance abusers, so where will it get me to deny her my presence in her life.

I've decided that I'm a stronger and better person for having to make it through with her as a mother.  Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see anyone go through the hell she created, but no matter what a child's mother will always be a part of them and helping them (if they want it) is always a good thing in my opinion.

[kiddosmom]

i am going to reply to this one, but i need to sit for awhile and decide how to do so :)

[Peanutsdad]

>Don't you believe to some extent that if you throw away the
>parent you throw away a part of the child too?  From my
>personal experience I know that no matter how much my mom
>abused me I would have given anything for her to have received
>help.

Thats one of the reasons children dont have the right to decide for themselves. They are developmentally unable to make an informed decision on these kind of issues.
>
>My mom did some pretty horrible things.  Many people get mad
>at me for having anything to do with her now, but no matter
>how much I've tried to get away from it, she will always be my
>mother and I am a part of her.  I don't take her abuse
>anymore, but I'm also not going to punish her for what she
>can't even realize that she's doing.  She is mentally ill as
>are a large number of substance abusers, so where will it get
>me to deny her my presence in her life.

Where it would get you is healthy. What it would have gotten you growing up, is a chance at a childhood free of abuse. Whats frightening, is the codependance I'm seeing here. How on earth can the abuse be excused if the abuser is sick?? Umm, are'nt most abusers sick?
>
>I've decided that I'm a stronger and better person for having
>to make it through with her as a mother.  Don't get me wrong,
>I don't want to see anyone go through the hell she created,
>but no matter what a child's mother will always be a part of
>them and helping them (if they want it) is always a good thing
>in my opinion.

Ok, I'm a finer human being for having been wounded in combat,, sure dont want any others to use my particular path to enlightenment, nor was your path to being a better person anything to emulate for any child. There is a distinct difference between helping, and enabling.  No one is saying a child should or can stop loving a parent, BUT children deserve to be protected against abusive or addict parents. Children didnt choose to be here, the parents made that choice for them. Children dont deserve to be put thru hell because their parent makes poor choices, they deserve to be happy, well, and free of abuse.

[MKx2]

"There is a distinct difference between helping, and enabling."

******

And in dealing with ANY addict, that distinct difference, if you're emotionally involed with said addict, is a very fine line to walk.  I'm just learning how to keep my balance with it, with DH.  He's an alcoholic. Just this past week I realized that I have finally "gotten there" in terms of not enabling.  I realize that I will lose my way from time to time, but the more I "practice" the better I will get, and the better MY life will be for it.

[StPaulieGirl]

Sweetheart?  Are you listening?  Good!  Columbian Gold was what enterprising dope dealers called exceptionally good Mexican pot.  Strawberry rolling papers were used to form what we called "joints", or marijuana cigarettes.  I don't know what the hell they're calling them these days.  Wait, let me go ask my son.  Cocaine wasn't heard of when I was doing stuff.  Acid?  Hahaha, purple microdot, orange sunshine, blotter?  John, just shut up.

Disclaimer:  I've thrown out more paraphrenalia, than what got Tommy Chong a prison sentence.

[john5739]

Okay I'll shut up.  I'm more than glad that I know nothing about drugs and I'm even more glad that I can't ask my son because he knows as little as I do.

[StPaulieGirl]

Remember this one?

Panama Red,
Panama Red,
It'll steal your woman, then it'll rob your head....

)(

[StPaulieGirl]

Hopefully your son is in diapers.  Trust me, after the nice officers from your local law enforcement agency gets through with them, all kids know the difference between a crack pipe, pot pipe, and a bong.  It's called the "Dare Program".  It does for drug abuse what sex ed does to prevent teen pregnancy.

Any questions, son?