NJ/NY Jurisdiction Continued..

[TPK]

Just a few more questions and I'll give you a break for a few days Soc.

Worst case scenario is she gets temp custody and I get visitation (in NJ).  

1. Is it realistic at all to expect to have my daughter for the Xmas holiday for visitation??

2. Instead of ~every other weekend~ visitation for me, is there anything called "make-up time" that I could be rewarded with?...or ask for??....say every weekend for awhile and then every other??

3. What are the percentages judge will award me counsel fees & costs??


Thank You.

TPK

[socrateaser]

>1. Is it realistic at all to expect to have my daughter for
>the Xmas holiday for visitation??

This is a very young child, and your judge appears to be a real piece of social realism, so I'm not gonna guess as to what's realistic.

>2. Instead of ~every other weekend~ visitation for me, is
>there anything called "make-up time" that I could be rewarded
>with?...or ask for??....say every weekend for awhile and then
>every other??

If you mean make up time for the time you've lost recently, it wouldn't be make up time. The penalty for frustrating your custody rights is to deny the other parent custody. If you don't get that, then you get nada.

>
>3. What are the percentages judge will award me counsel fees &
>costs??

Practically zero.

[TPK]

SOC hearing NJ was this morning. Wife didn't show but sent a lawyer. Lawyer was there to argue jurisdiction.

Judge shows us that wife has filed her own SOC hearing in NY. This filing was done in Supreme Court this time.  Seems that NY wants to do a hearing on jurisdiction to see who gets it.

This was just submitted to the NJ judge late yesterday, and was not presented to me or my NJ attorney. The NY SOC hearing is 12/23 next week!

Seems that wife has also filed for divorce  in NY.

NJ judge said he'd speak to NY judge about jurisdiction and said "I may defer all of this to NY court"

Why are we still arguing jurisdiction?

This is insane, I'm sure NY judge didn't know about this NJ hearing.

NJ judge was telling us that "home state" is defined by where the child resided for the last 6 months. He tells us it wasn't 6 months before we filed. DUH, the child was only 4 months old.

So now it's in limbo again til judges talk.

Question to you.

1. Regarding the UCCJEA, does it state anywhere the procedure or law where child is less than 6 months old??

2. Wife's lawyer stated in court that I had to be served by today with the NY paperwork. As of this minute I have not been served. What is service law in NY if you know??


TPK

[socrateaser]

Let me remind you of my quote of a few days ago:

"Anyway, I still think you're probably shooting yourself in the foot by trying to force jurisdiction back to NJ, based on all of the facts you've posted, but, I could be wrong, and you could get an award of temporary custody and thereby obtain grounds for an order of child support in your favor.

I hope I am. Hmmm, when was the last time I was wrong...oh yeah, I remember...it was...(continued next week, same time same station)."

Sorry, don't mean to rub it in, but your attorney isn't winning, and the judge doesn't want the case, because it's too complex.

Try to understand this: Judges get paid the same money whether they hear difficult cases or sleep in their chambers. Most judges at the State level, after the first year on the bench, have heard just about every possible case that could come before them. So, they just want to come in, do their time, and go home (and get paid).

Now, I can't tell you why your attorney's not winning, but he's not, and that means either he doesn't know the magic words that influence your judge, or he's just one of the 70% lousy lawyers.

The only way that I could know for sure would be to read all of the pleadings, because for the most part, you're still only telling me your side of the story.

>Question to you.
>
>1. Regarding the UCCJEA, does it state anywhere the procedure
>or law where child is less than 6 months old??

Yes, but even if it didn't, until the first judgment on custody is made, either State can relinquish jurisdiction to the other. So, this gives your judge the easy out. He just moves the case from in basket to out basket, and it's not his problem anymore.

When it comes to enforcing your custody rights, even waiting a few days shows the court that you're not all that concerned, because if you were, you would have been filing complaints with the DA 24 hours after the kid and mom were missing action. But, let's not get distracted on this discussion. It's water under the bridge and there's nothing that you can do now

>2. Wife's lawyer stated in court that I had to be served by
>today with the NY paperwork. As of this minute I have not been
>served. What is service law in NY if you know??

Listen, the CHILD is in NY with the mother for months! You are fighting the wrong battle, and it's gonna cost you $$$. Suppose you were to prevail on the jurisdictional issue, then what? You've got the judge from hell hearing your case in NJ, so what do you think he will order. Well, I'm gonna tell you. He's gonna give your WIFE the BULK OF CUSTODY and make you drive to hell and gone to exercise your visitation, so SAVE YOUR MONEY for the next battle, and get yourself a real attorney and do the friggin' case in NY.

Having said that, you are already on ACTUAL notice that there is a case pending, because you heard it during the hearing. If I were the opposing NY attorney, I would certify to the court that you have actual notice, regardless of service, and ask the court to go ahead with the hearing, even though you didn't show. And, if I were the judge, I'd say OK, and you would be screwed, so I strongly suggest that you get those documents and start preparing your case, or, better yet, that you obtain a NY attorney and voluntarily accept NY jurisdiction.

That is, unless you enjoy tilting at windmills, because you're just flushing your dough down the toilet, in my humble opinion.

[TPK]

SOC hearing NJ was this morning. Wife didn't show but sent a lawyer. Lawyer was there to argue jurisdiction.

Judge shows us that wife has filed her own SOC hearing in NY. This filing was done in Supreme Court this time.  Seems that NY wants to do a hearing on jurisdiction to see who gets it.

This was just submitted to the NJ judge late yesterday, and was not presented to me or my NJ attorney. The NY SOC hearing is 12/23 next week!

Seems that wife has also filed for divorce  in NY.

NJ judge said he'd speak to NY judge about jurisdiction and said "I may defer all of this to NY court"

Why are we still arguing jurisdiction?

This is insane, I'm sure NY judge didn't know about this NJ hearing.

NJ judge was telling us that "home state" is defined by where the child resided for the last 6 months. He tells us it wasn't 6 months before we filed. DUH, the child was only 4 months old.

So now it's in limbo again til judges talk.

Question to you.

1. Regarding the UCCJEA, does it state anywhere the procedure or law where child is less than 6 months old??

2. Wife's lawyer stated in court that I had to be served by today with the NY paperwork. As of this minute I have not been served. What is service law in NY if you know??


TPK

[socrateaser]

Let me remind you of my quote of a few days ago:

"Anyway, I still think you're probably shooting yourself in the foot by trying to force jurisdiction back to NJ, based on all of the facts you've posted, but, I could be wrong, and you could get an award of temporary custody and thereby obtain grounds for an order of child support in your favor.

I hope I am. Hmmm, when was the last time I was wrong...oh yeah, I remember...it was...(continued next week, same time same station)."

Sorry, don't mean to rub it in, but your attorney isn't winning, and the judge doesn't want the case, because it's too complex.

Try to understand this: Judges get paid the same money whether they hear difficult cases or sleep in their chambers. Most judges at the State level, after the first year on the bench, have heard just about every possible case that could come before them. So, they just want to come in, do their time, and go home (and get paid).

Now, I can't tell you why your attorney's not winning, but he's not, and that means either he doesn't know the magic words that influence your judge, or he's just one of the 70% lousy lawyers.

The only way that I could know for sure would be to read all of the pleadings, because for the most part, you're still only telling me your side of the story.

>Question to you.
>
>1. Regarding the UCCJEA, does it state anywhere the procedure
>or law where child is less than 6 months old??

Yes, but even if it didn't, until the first judgment on custody is made, either State can relinquish jurisdiction to the other. So, this gives your judge the easy out. He just moves the case from in basket to out basket, and it's not his problem anymore.

When it comes to enforcing your custody rights, even waiting a few days shows the court that you're not all that concerned, because if you were, you would have been filing complaints with the DA 24 hours after the kid and mom were missing action. But, let's not get distracted on this discussion. It's water under the bridge and there's nothing that you can do now

>2. Wife's lawyer stated in court that I had to be served by
>today with the NY paperwork. As of this minute I have not been
>served. What is service law in NY if you know??

Listen, the CHILD is in NY with the mother for months! You are fighting the wrong battle, and it's gonna cost you $$$. Suppose you were to prevail on the jurisdictional issue, then what? You've got the judge from hell hearing your case in NJ, so what do you think he will order. Well, I'm gonna tell you. He's gonna give your WIFE the BULK OF CUSTODY and make you drive to hell and gone to exercise your visitation, so SAVE YOUR MONEY for the next battle, and get yourself a real attorney and do the friggin' case in NY.

Having said that, you are already on ACTUAL notice that there is a case pending, because you heard it during the hearing. If I were the opposing NY attorney, I would certify to the court that you have actual notice, regardless of service, and ask the court to go ahead with the hearing, even though you didn't show. And, if I were the judge, I'd say OK, and you would be screwed, so I strongly suggest that you get those documents and start preparing your case, or, better yet, that you obtain a NY attorney and voluntarily accept NY jurisdiction.

That is, unless you enjoy tilting at windmills, because you're just flushing your dough down the toilet, in my humble opinion.

[TPK]

Soc,

Here's what I have in mind.

NY judge's signed order said I had to be "personally" served with SOC complaint and all the other paperwork by 12/18 (today). I have made sure I won't be found til 12:01am 12/19.

On the basis that service wasn't done properly, the NY 12/23 case will be dismissed. My NJ attorney got the paperwork, but he doesn't practice in NY so service to him is defficient.

I already have a NY attorney lined up for  Monday.

We would have the NY case dismissed based on service and that she filed in another county in which she does not reside. She claims to be temp living with her sister in Orange County, but the OOP & Support hearings were filed in Ulster County. She's venue shopping.

I will "bite the bullet" and file for temp. custody in Ulster County NY right away. This would allow proper venue and I would most likely get the same judge from the OOP hearing and same law guardian who was on my side.

I would get temp. custody as petitioner and at least get to see (have) my daughter.

I'd have to withdraw the NJ proceedings, but I don't have much of a chance or faith with the NJ judge.

Jurisdiction would be in NY now, which I'd have to travel a bit, but if it helps my cause I'll do it.

This all depends on outcome of NJ-NY judge conversation of which we will know the results of on Monday.


Soc,......What do you think??


Todd

[socrateaser]

>NY judge's signed order said I had to be "personally" served
>with SOC complaint and all the other paperwork by 12/18
>(today). I have made sure I won't be found til 12:01am 12/19.

This is VERY interesting! The NY judge doesn't want the case EITHER! If he did, he wouldn't have preemptively foreclosed the possibility of finding that you had already received actual notice of the proceeding at the hearing! That's !@#$ hillarious!

Sorry, I know that this is a truly awful situation, but all I can do is laugh at how awful these judicial officers are. The contra example is that poster "future stepmom AZ," below reports that the judge in her DH's case, when presented with a problem, made his own order without any motion of the parties, that they appear so that the situation could be resolved immediately. The equivalent would have been for your NJ judge to have ordered your wife to bring the kid into court immediately or lose custody.

Other than that side comment, I think you're doing the only thing that you can do -- which is to get out of NJ. Frankly, I think you should get out of NJ even if the NY judge refuses to accept jurisdiction on Monday.

[TPK]

Question regarding the venue shopping.

1. How would you argue that in court?

She lives in Ulster County, filed 2 petitions in that county where she stated her home address was in that county.

We served her in Ulster County both a Dr office and her home.

2. Can she get away with filing in another county using a temp address in that county??

3. If you were my NJ attorney and was presented with the NY paperwork but didn't practice in NJ would YOU consider that service??


I was never personally served, I made sure I came home around 3am 12/19.


4. Can the NJ judge order me to go to NY for a evidentary hearing on jurisdiction?


5. NY judge's order stated NJ judge must have the complaint & paperwork by 12/15. NJ judge told us he got it on 12/16, is this grounds for dismissal in NY?


6. Would I have to withdraw the proceedings in NJ prior to filing for custody in NY?...if so how soon?

7. Can I file anything to put that NJ hearing "on hold"  rather than withdrawing until I've filed in Ulster County.

I'm trying to have something filed in Ulster County before the 12/23 NY hearing. I would have a NY lawyer show at NY hearing to serve her.

8. If NY gets jurisdiction, my goal is to have something filed by 12/23 in Ulster County, do I have enough time for that?

[jolawanda]

that *he* would do everything to get a divorce out of NJ to begin with?
I am tellin ya.....RUN, run fast and hard. We have been dealing w/ NJ for nearly 15 years. I am here to tell you....RUN!

also, some very good advice a lawyer told me once about filing in family court....Look at the whole picture, don't be so darned pigeon holed in your process. If this is the first time you are going to family court, what is the big picture? I realize you want to see your kid, I am hoping it's more of a fight to see your kid then about the money. Ours unfortunately turned into nothing but the money. Way LONG story there.

Anyhow, I have been trying really hard to read thru all your posts and responses from Soc and you really should drop out of NJ life forever and move it over and let NY handle it. That is my opinion. NJ does NOT favor the NCP and you will become a faint memory in your kids life. They could give a rats ASS about YOU and your kid. They are number and money people period! Got it?