Update on Custody/Visitation Etc

[TPK]

Good afternoon Soc.

I had a hearing in Orange County NY this morning. This hearing was a formality to get the venue transferred back to Ulster County. Being that I wasn't served for the last OC hearing, we had to go back today and appear to have venue transferred. In short, the last hearing never happened so to speak because of no service.

I submitted myself to NY jurisdiction today. No more NJ/NY questions, I just want to get the ball rolling already.

I did get a slight increase in visitation. We asked for Fri 5pm to Sun 5pm. Of course my opponent objected saying child was too young for overnites. Judge didn't care.

Judge gave me what Ulster County OOP hearing Judge was going to give me. I got Sat 9am to Sun 6pm every other weekend. I still have every Tues & Thurs in NY 4pm to 8pm at her brother's house.

Bad news is I got nailed for CS today. Much more than I thought I'd have to cough up but nothing I can do about it. I have no problem supporting my child but I just feel it's partially spousal support as well.

I will be going with wife next Tuesday to the doctor for a child well check. I'm very pleased with this. I can bring up the vaccinations at this Dr. visit.

Looks like the divorce war will start next month...gee I can't wait.


Just a few questions..

I intend to take some sort of parenting class to put myself in a better position to get custody.

1. If I took a class and wife did not, would this be beneficial to my case?

2. Does financial stability matter in a custody case?

3. Generally, would a court opt to not give custody to a parent outside that states jurisdiction? I'm in NJ, case will be heard in NY.

4. Do you have any past cases that you were involved in where you represented a client (in a custody case) that lived in another state.? If so what was the outcome(s) ??
_________________________________

Re deadbeat bro-in-law. I did send him that letter again, this time it was much more detailed. It seemed to have softened him up a bit as he told me today he's ready to settle on the partnership.

Thank you, and have a nice weekend Soc.

TPK

[socrateaser]

>1. If I took a class and wife did not, would this be
>beneficial to my case?

You want the truth, right? It shows good faith on your part, but it won't mean much to the court as far as the final disposition of custody goes.
>
>2. Does financial stability matter in a custody case?

Only to the extent that it is relevant to prove some other mental instability related to child rearing.

>
>3. Generally, would a court opt to not give custody to a
>parent outside that states jurisdiction? I'm in NJ, case will
>be heard in NY.

The court will lean against NJ custody. But, the major decision is all about determining the child's best interests, so if you prove your the better parent then you'll get custody. Unfortunately, the overwhelmingly big issue is that your wife has established the status quo with her as primary custodian, and unless you prove that she is a danger to that child, no amount of money that you will spend is going to change that status quo.

I'm sure that decentdad will have a little to say on this, since he just went through it. NY and CA have courts with similar mentalities because the population demographics are similar.

>4. Do you have any past cases that you were involved in where
>you represented a client (in a custody case) that lived in
>another state.? If so what was the outcome(s) ??

LOL. Trust me, your best shot is gonna be based on having an attorney who has good experience with the judge who will hear your case. When you know who that judge is, you will want to try to find that attorney. Until that time, I wouldn' spend a lot of time strategizing with the attorneys that you have now, because unless they have experience with the judge in your case, they will be outgunned if your wife retains an attorney who does have that experience.

>Re deadbeat bro-in-law. I did send him that letter again, this
>time it was much more detailed. It seemed to have softened him
>up a bit as he told me today he's ready to settle on the
>partnership.

He talked to a lawyer who told him, to settle, because he's gonna get his ass handed to him if he goes to court. Good job.

[TPK]

 
>
>>
>>3. Generally, would a court opt to not give custody to a
>>parent outside that states jurisdiction? I'm in NJ, case
>will
>>be heard in NY.
>
>The court will lean against NJ custody. But, the major
>decision is all about determining the child's best interests,
>so if you prove your the better parent then you'll get
>custody. Unfortunately, the overwhelmingly big issue is that
>your wife has established the status quo with her as primary
>custodian, and unless you prove that she is a danger to that
>child, no amount of money that you will spend is going to
>change that status quo.


Are you saying I shouldn't even try to get custody? If I didn't feel like I was the better parent (I know I have to prove that) then I'd let her have custody. If I felt like child was safe and wife wasn't a mental mess I'd leave it as it is.
>
>LOL. Trust me, your best shot is gonna be based on having an
>attorney who has good experience with the judge who will hear
>your case. When you know who that judge is, you will want to
>try to find that attorney. Until that time, I wouldn' spend a
>lot of time strategizing with the attorneys that you have now,
>because unless they have experience with the judge in your
>case, they will be outgunned if your wife retains an attorney
>who does have that experience.

Once we get back to Ulster County we'll be on my attorney's turf. Wife's counsel is from Orange County so she's at a disadvantage. My counsel told me he knew all the judges in Ulster County and even worked for one of them at one time. The law guardian will be the same one from the OOP hearing. That guardian thought I should have custody back then. I'm hoping it's to my advantage to have that guardian back in this case.
>
>
>He talked to a lawyer who told him, to settle, because he's
>gonna get his ass handed to him if he goes to court. Good
>job.

Funny, I had thought the same thing.

TPK

[DecentDad]

Hi,

Soc mentioned I may have a perspective.

I separated from never-married mother of my (then) 1 year old daughter in 2001.  When I told her I was leaving (she was emotionally abusive and a leech); she made a false DV accusation, got me jailed, filed for sole custody, and moved 400 miles away.  She "allowed" me approx 1% custodial time via a 4 hour visit every two weeks (yeah, twice monthly made a 800 mile round trip for 4 hours time with my daughter).

It was only through biomom's two big errors that I was able to get daughter returned to birth city five months after she left:  1) Biomom originally filed for custody in birth city; and 2) at my OSC hearing to establish visitation and daughter's return, her attorney tried to downplay urgency of the OSC by saying it's biomom's intent to return "soon" when she can find a job (which she had been saying for 5 months); and my attorney jumped on it to establish visitation locally-- court gave biomom 2 weeks to move daughter back and gave me approx 20% custodial time.

Over following years, I took the high road and prepared for the eventual custody trial, biomom frequently took the low road.  Neither road matters.

Emphasizing Soc's point about the STATUS QUO:

I am by far the better, more stable parent.  I have a stable income, I live in a single family home where daughter has private bedroom, I'm married to a wonderful woman, I don't do drugs, I have no criminal convictions, and I'm well-educated on parenting issues (via books and a 30 hour parenting course).

Biomom has been chronically unemployed.  She declared bankruptcy last year.  She lives in a 1-bedroom apartment.  She has a new babysitter every few months.  She has a new boyfriend every few months.

Biomom nursed daughter through age 4.  They still sleep together.

In past 4 years, she has made a couple hundred allegations about me (for just about everything except molestation) to therapists, the court, child's care givers, child's doctor, and custody evaluator.  Nothing was ever founded.  No action was ever taken against me.

I gave custody evaluator a phone recording of biomom repeating how good it feels to want to kill me, rather than herself, since she's walked around her whole life wanting to kill herself.

I gave custody evaluator a polygraph report (I passed) about the false DV accusation, that biomom was the attacker, that biomom has told me that she'd shoot me if I got custody, that biomom told me she had been repeatedly raped before meeting me, that she told me she tried to kill herself earlier in her adulthood.

Custody evaluator was a clinical psychologist.  He interviewed me, my wife (married in 2003), and biomom.  He did psych testing on us.

I was trying to convince evaluator that biomom is too unstable to have majority timeshare, and she's too uncooperative for joint custody to work.

He concluded that biomom has some abnormal psych results, described that she tends to blame her problems on others, that she is abnormally paranoid.  He also found her charming, warm (yeah, as I did when I first met her), and devoted to her child.

He found that my wife and I are psychologically stable (i.e., in normal range on everything).  As he must, he said some minor negative things about me too (e.g., in my past, I've been a social activist but ended it upon the pregnancy; I admitted to trying pot in college; I got in fights alot as a kid, etc).

He found that daughter is well-bonded to all three adults who are most in her life.

For that reason, he recommended that it's not in daughter's interest for biomom to move 400 miles away again (as she wanted to do in 2004), and suggested it would be "very harmful" to her.

His recommendation was to slightly modify the status quo to give me approx 35% time immediately, and move to 50/50 in two years.

BOTTOM LINE-- to lose custody, a parent must REALLY REALLY be neglecting/abusing a child.  Simply put, my ex ain't bad enough to lose custody, and no matter how much better I am as a parent isn't strong enough to change status quo.

The lesson I learned is just because someone is an awful person doesn't mean that they're far enough below average as a parent to lose custody.

To get to this point cost me much money, a large chunk of it in debt.  I've been through three attorneys in three years.  The custody evaluation alone cost $14k.  My total attorney fees is about 4 times that.

Of course, I now have the satisfaction of knowing I did everything I could to influence the best outcome for my daughter.  I'm not kicking myself in the butt or regretting that I didn't give it my all.  There's a peace that comes with that.

Listen to Soc's perspective, as hard as it is for a newcomer to family law to believe there ain't no semblance of justice in a family court.

Though the judge is ultimately gonna decide your custody issue (and nobody knows how the judge will be feeling that day), Soc can at least save you much $$ along the way by helping you avoid going down worthless paths, and help you best position yourself.

DD

[socrateaser]

>Are you saying I shouldn't even try to get custody? If I
>didn't feel like I was the better parent (I know I have to
>prove that) then I'd let her have custody. If I felt like
>child was safe and wife wasn't a mental mess I'd leave it as
>it is.

No, I'm saying that you should guard yourself from falling into the trap of believing that you are the right parent and the other person is the wrong parent. The court doesn't rule on right or wrong. The court applies law to facts and issues a ruling. And, that ruling, in the case of child custody matters, is based upon one basic tenant:

What is objectively in the child's best interest?

Will the child be harmed by a substantial change in custodial environment, such that even though the other parent may be superior in the long term, that the short term trauma to the child will overwhelm the value of the long term benefit?

If the judge believes that the answer to the above question is yes, then it won't matter how good a parent you prove yourself to be -- you will lose the custody battle. You were right and your wife was wrong -- but you lost anyway -- because it's not about right or wrong. It's about the judge's view of what's in the child's best interests at the moment the judge makes his/her decision.

If you want to win, then you need to maximize your time with the child. For most men, this means not earning a living, and the court will force you to make a living, so as to pay support, thus you cannot maximize your time with the child.

Once again, this is not right, and it's not fair, but it IS the LAW, and unless you get the NY state legislature to change the law, you as the person who pays the bills, are at a significant disadvantage in a custody battle.

So, what's left on your plate is to try to prove that the mother is seriously mentally ill (paranoid delusions, borderline personalilty, bi-polar, etc.) AND that her illness cause the child a routine, direct and credible present harm.

In cases where this is easy to prove, because the mother is mentally ill, fathers get custody. More to the point, in most cases, the mother is so messed up that she leaves the home without the child(ren) first, and dad suddenly has the upper hand, because he has the kids, the home, and the judge sees evidence that mom is sick, because, after all, NO mom would EVER leave her own children, huh???

Uh huh...riiiiiight!

The only other case that favors a man is when the woman outearns him. If the mother is a real career oriented woman, and the father's just a blue collar dude, then all of a sudden, the tables are turned and dad's got the upper hand because mom's the breadwinner, and dad's doing the shopping and the cooking, etc.
 
From what I've read of your posts, however, you are not this man, and your wife is not that woman, so this hypothetical is irrelevant to your circumstances.

Bottom line. You can put all the money up that you wish, but unless your wife snaps a vacuum tube and can't function as caretaker, you're gonna lose a big custody war, and all you'll have to show for it is a huge attorney bill.

Therefore, my advice is for you to just love your child, and try to make nice with your wife, when you're around her. I'm not suggesting that you try to get her to want you back, just that you should try to remember what it was that drew her to you in the first place and try to recreate it. If you do, then she will be interested in having you around, and that will make her more inclined to settle on giving you more time, because you will not be viewed by her as a threat to her economic survival, or to her self image as a mother.

Hard to do, I know, but a lot cheaper than $600 per hour expert witness testimony from a shrink who is frequently more mentally ill than his/her patients!

[TPK]

Fellas,

I don't need a lecture on the right & wrong issue. I have read enough posts about that and don't have that mindset in regard to family law.


I am trying to gage what I should do about my custody case, and if I have a chance to win. Part of me wants to battle it out just so I can say I tried. I also realize I might be pissin in the wind trying to win this.

My wife seems to have softened a bit of late, maybe she now realizes our child needs a father in her life. I just feel that any results I've gotten have been court ordered rather than her giving in.

Soc, there's no way I'm getting back with her, that's not an option. I won't put myself in position for something like this to happen again. You know the saying "if it happens once shame on you, if it happens twice shame on me". This won't happen twice...period.

Some things I think might sink me for custody:

1. I'm in NJ, NY might not want to give me custody.

2. I work long tireless hours in my business (sometimes 12+ hours a day)

3. I would have to put child in daycare during the day.

Wife's in NY, she's the status quo right now, she doesn't work and is with the child all day.

Maybe if I can sit down with wife and tell her what I want she might give it to me. This whole legal saga has worn me out already, and we haven't even begun any trial.

So, I have some thinking to do about this.

Thanks for the advice guys.


TPK

[socrateaser]

I think you have the picture -- and it ain't real pretty, but I think you will get through it -- you have the right mental attitude.

`A`ohe hua o ka mai`a i ka lâ ho`okahi. (trans. "Patience")