Do something or ignore it?

[crayiii]

I posted this on the father's issues board but wanted to get your oppinion too.


I went to Washington State last week so I could spend the weekend with my son and pay a visit to the court to find out how hearings, etc. go.

While at the court, my wife called me and wanted to know if I was in town yet. When I told her that I was and that I was at the court house, she became very concerned and asked if she could come down and meet with me to hopefully come to agreement on terms.

She showed up with her boyfriend and her boyfriends mom but she and I went into one of the mediation rooms alone and started working on things. We actually got along very well and laughed and joked and she was pretty much agreeing to everything.

After about an hour her boyfriend just walks in and asks how things were going. I didn't have a problem with that and my wife and I both told him things were very good.

The boyfriend then picks up the calendar that we were working on and asks my wife "how much time are we giving him". I said "I'm not trying to be a jerk here but you need to understand that this is between Jane and I and you need to stay in the background"

The boyfriend then tells me, "this is a group decision not just you two"  He continues by saying that unless he agrees, there is no agreement.

Is there anything I can do to stop this? Is this just how it is?

Over the weekend my son told me that his mom and her boyfriend make fun of me and ask that he join in.  He told me that it hurts his feelings.  I suggested that the next time they do it he just tell them that it hurts his feelings.

Our order states the following:

"Neither parent shall make derogatory comments, disparaging comments, or comments about the other parent which could have the effect of diminishing the love and affection that the children have for the other parent.  Neither parent shall make these kinds of comments in the presence of or in the hearing range of the children, nor shall either parent allow anyone to make such comments in the presence of or within the hearing range of the children."

Is there anything I can do to address this or should I ignore it?

[crayiii]

I posted this on the father's issues board but wanted to get your oppinion too.


I went to Washington State last week so I could spend the weekend with my son and pay a visit to the court to find out how hearings, etc. go.

While at the court, my wife called me and wanted to know if I was in town yet. When I told her that I was and that I was at the court house, she became very concerned and asked if she could come down and meet with me to hopefully come to agreement on terms.

She showed up with her boyfriend and her boyfriends mom but she and I went into one of the mediation rooms alone and started working on things. We actually got along very well and laughed and joked and she was pretty much agreeing to everything.

After about an hour her boyfriend just walks in and asks how things were going. I didn't have a problem with that and my wife and I both told him things were very good.

The boyfriend then picks up the calendar that we were working on and asks my wife "how much time are we giving him". I said "I'm not trying to be a jerk here but you need to understand that this is between Jane and I and you need to stay in the background"

The boyfriend then tells me, "this is a group decision not just you two"  He continues by saying that unless he agrees, there is no agreement.

Is there anything I can do to stop this? Is this just how it is?

Over the weekend my son told me that his mom and her boyfriend make fun of me and ask that he join in.  He told me that it hurts his feelings.  I suggested that the next time they do it he just tell them that it hurts his feelings.

Our order states the following:

"Neither parent shall make derogatory comments, disparaging comments, or comments about the other parent which could have the effect of diminishing the love and affection that the children have for the other parent.  Neither parent shall make these kinds of comments in the presence of or in the hearing range of the children, nor shall either parent allow anyone to make such comments in the presence of or within the hearing range of the children."

Is there anything I can do to address this or should I ignore it?

[socrateaser]

>Is there anything I can do to stop this? Is this just how it
>is?

If the boyfriend wants a say in the procedings, then he can move to be joined as a party. Otherwise, my approach would be to smile and say, "Ok, you and Jane can discuss this all you like and come back with a joint decision, but I'm not discussing anything with Jane while you're present, unless you file a motion to be joined in the action."

This guy would have to be brain dead to ask for joinder, because he would be open to discovery on every issue, without a subpoena. He's obviously a control freak.

You realize, of course, that your ex is likely in this new relationship purely for "da money," and as soon as the boyfriend puts the skids on unlimited resources for his new squeeze, that she will dump him.

I have considerable experience with this scenario. You can accellerate this by causing your ex to expend the maximum amount in legal fees possible in opposing you. Pretty soon, boyfriend will close the checkbook, and all hell will break loose on the other side.

>
>Over the weekend my son told me that his mom and her boyfriend
>make fun of me and ask that he join in.  He told me that it
>hurts his feelings.  I suggested that the next time they do it
>he just tell them that it hurts his feelings.
>
>Our order states the following:
>
>"Neither parent shall make derogatory comments, disparaging
>comments, or comments about the other parent which could have
>the effect of diminishing the love and affection that the
>children have for the other parent.  Neither parent shall make
>these kinds of comments in the presence of or in the hearing
>range of the children, nor shall either parent allow anyone to
>make such comments in the presence of or within the hearing
>range of the children."
>
>Is there anything I can do to address this or should I ignore
>it?

Send a letter to her attorney, and explain precisely what has occurred, and that your son reported it. State that you really don't care if they make fun of you, but that you would appreciate it that your ex not involve your son in the activities.

As a practical matter, it is extremely difficult (impossible) to prove this sort of contempt, until the child is old enough to want to come to court and testify to it on his own (i.e., 13 years+). Unless you get a recording of them doing it to you while in a public place with their knowledge and in your son's presense...pretty tough to accomplish.

[crayiii]

You know, it's interesting that you say that about the money thing.  That was almost the only thing that they talked about.  The boyfriend kept telling me that he has been supporting my son and that I needed to send him money.

My wife was talking to me very frankly when we were alone telling me that her attorney fees were more per month then they make and that the boyfriend told her she had to get another job.  

She begged me to start sending things directly to her instead of her attorney so she wouldn't be charged.

The boyfriend was pushing for fewer but extended visits because he was "tired of the airfare"

What type of stratagies could be used to "accellerate" this?  Or, in your experience what have people done in other cases?

[socrateaser]

>What type of stratagies could be used to "accellerate" this?
>Or, in your experience what have people done in other cases?

Well, you could move to join the boyfriend to the action for the purpose of restraining him from interfering with the negotiations between the parties to the case.

Your motion may fail (probably will), but it will most certainly cost your ex some serious dough to oppose it. Her attorney will have some difficulty trying to figure out exactly what to say in a responsive pleading, because such an action would be so unusual.

You could also move for appointment of a GAL, and/or a custody evaluator, etc.

This guy's "love" will be tested, as I suspect your spouse is rather hot blooded.

[crayiii]

I like the idea.  If he wants to play such a big role in this and goes so far as to say there is no deal unless he says there's a deal then he should be a party to the case.

I did a google search for a motion for joinder but didn't come up with anything that works.  Do you have any suggestions on where to go for help with the motion content?

How about a motion to require marriage counseling?  I wonder how the boyfriend would feel about the prospect of paying half the cost of marriage counseling for us?????  :-)

[socrateaser]

>I like the idea.  If he wants to play such a big role in this
>and goes so far as to say there is no deal unless he says
>there's a deal then he should be a party to the case.
>
>I did a google search for a motion for joinder but didn't come
>up with anything that works.  Do you have any suggestions on
>where to go for help with the motion content?

The following two forms would allow you to try to obtain an order of protection against the boyfriend directly. I think that this is a better place to start, because he will need to defend his behavior on his own.

Basically, you will allege that an emergency exists because the boyfriend is directly interfering with and frustrating the legal process by interrupting negotiations of the parties and claiming that no settlement will occur without his consent, that obtaining a restraining order against your spouse would not have any effect on her new domestic partner's behavior, and that said behavior constitutes an unlawful harrassment under Washington Law.

Then you explain the exact events as they took place, showing how they have frustrated settlement negotiations. Then, go to the courthouse and file the petition, then go to an ex parte hearing and see if you can get the order signed by the judge. If you suceed, you can serve it on the boyfriend, and he will be foreced to come down and defend, or hire an attorney to help him. Or, he can do nothing, and the order will be permanent, which will keep him out of your business.

http://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/?fa=forms.formdisp&filename=uh2_020&category_list=11

http://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/?fa=forms.formdisp&filename=uh3_020&category_list=11

>
>How about a motion to require marriage counseling?  I wonder
>how the boyfriend would feel about the prospect of paying half
>the cost of marriage counseling for us?????  :-)

Certainly an interesting proposition, however, if your spouse has already petitioned the court asking for dissolution of the marriage on grounds of irreconcilable differences, then your motion will be rejected almost instantly.

[crayiii]

When a party who (1) is a resident of this state, or (2) is a member of the armed forces and is stationed in this state, or (3) is married to a party who is a resident of this state or who is a member of the armed forces and is stationed in this state, petitions for a dissolution of marriage, and alleges that the marriage is irretrievably broken and when ninety days have elapsed since the petition was filed and from the date when service of summons was made upon the respondent or the first publication of summons was made, the court shall proceed as follows:

     (1) If the other party joins in the petition or does not deny that the marriage is irretrievably broken, the court shall enter a decree of dissolution.

     (2) If the other party alleges that the petitioner was induced to file the petition by fraud, or coercion, the court shall make a finding as to that allegation and, if it so finds shall dismiss the petition.

     (3) If the other party denies that the marriage is irretrievably broken the court shall consider all relevant factors, including the circumstances that gave rise to the filing of the petition and the prospects for reconciliation and shall:

     (a) Make a finding that the marriage is irretrievably broken and enter a decree of dissolution of the marriage; or

     (b) At the request of either party or on its own motion, transfer the cause to the family court, refer them to another counseling service of their choice, and request a report back from the counseling service within sixty days, or continue the matter for not more than sixty days for hearing. If the cause is returned from the family court or at the adjourned hearing, the court shall:

     (i) Find that the parties have agreed to reconciliation and dismiss the petition; or

     (ii) Find that the parties have not been reconciled, and that either party continues to allege that the marriage is irretrievably broken. When such facts are found, the court shall enter a decree of dissolution of the marriage.

     (4) If the petitioner requests the court to decree legal separation in lieu of dissolution, the court shall enter the decree in that form unless the other party objects and petitions for a decree of dissolution or declaration of invalidity.

[socrateaser]

If you satisfy the requirements of the statute, then you could file a motion under its terms.

[crayiii]

Do I have to go to the court in person or can I file them by mail?

[socrateaser]

>Do I have to go to the court in person or can I file them by
>mail?

Well, if you believe that this requires emergency attention, then you need to go to the court. Otherwise, you can do it by mail, but this order, once signed by the judge and filled in with a hearing date, must be personally served on the boyfriend, i.e., by the sheriff or process server or some other disinterested adult third party.

[crayiii]

Okay, so I can fill in the section that states the order should be entered after a hearing instead of an emergency then I don't have to be there in person.

Once I finish my reason for the request can I post it here (removing identifying info) for your review?

[socrateaser]

>Okay, so I can fill in the section that states the order
>should be entered after a hearing instead of an emergency then
>I don't have to be there in person.
>
>Once I finish my reason for the request can I post it here
>(removing identifying info) for your review?

Email to me [email protected] and post here that you sent it, cause I rarely check that email address.

[crayiii]

Thank you!

[socrateaser]

I don't have time to revise the document today, however I read it and I believe that it is a big mistake for you to discuss anything other than this recent issue with the boyfriend coming into a mediation room and frustrating your negotiations by making unilateral decisions in a matter with which he is only peripherally involved. The court will favor your dispassionate request to resolve the issues through settlement and to eliminate any distractions. The court will be highly annoyed if you use the order as a launching pad for your general irritation re the dissolution.

You want to appear to have nothing in mind other than the swift and equitable resolution of the case and your child's best interests.

So, with that in mind, please get rid of all material not directly related to boyfriend's immediate interference in your negotiations at the courthouse.

[crayiii]

Can I ask Oregon for the protective order instead of Washington?

[socrateaser]

>Can I ask Oregon for the protective order instead of
>Washington?

No. The boyfriend doesn't live in Oregon, and your altercation with him was in Washington. Oregon has no jurisdiction.

[crayiii]

I'm not going to do any of this!  I don't anymore heart burn...

[socrateaser]

.