Hi soc question regarding child's wishes

[wallyworld]

Okay facts:

In 2002 mother (in FL) gave child, 5 yo daughter, to me(in IL) for unspecified time.  Child started 1st grade in IL.  Child told me of abuse her mother did to her so I got a lawyer.  Made ex made with allegations and child's maternal grandparents got irate at the fact I was going for custoday (as they were basically with my daugter 70% of the time in FL).

They make a lot of $$.  They paid for my ex's lawyer fees etc...  Well my attorney messed up and filed when my daughter had only lived in IL for 5 not 6 months.  My ex got my daughter back.  

She then witheld visitation for 2 years.  She then asked FL courts to modify my child support.  Florida denied based on jurisdiction of cs order still in IL.

So IL has cs jurisdiction
and FL has custody jurisdiction.

I was ordered significant visitaiton at the request of my ex (crazy I know as she witheld visitation for 2 years) (as I am sure she still really doesn't want my daughter, but is still getting a nice cs check even when my daughter is with me for t he 3 months).

Well my daughter has been with us for the summer now 1.5 months.  She has stated that the abuse still occurs and that her mother has ADHD and can't help herself.

She stated her mother:

1.  Beats her with a belt
2.  Slaps her in the face
3.  Beats her with a hanger
4.  Tells her she is gong to kill herself
5.  Tells her she should give her away

My daughter has stated that she would like to live with me.  She is 8 and will be 9 in Nov.

She even asked her mother if she could stay longer, mom said no you don't live there.  


1.  At what age does a child have to be in  a FL court  to have some say where he/she wants to live?

2.  If by chance ex lets daughter stay for extended period of time is it still 6 months for IL to get jurisdiciton even though the order states FL is the home state.  In other words can IL be made the home state?

3.  Is this a change of circumstance (Ie: the abuse) or the child's wishes

I would not like to make abuse allegations as last time it cost me 2 years with my daughter so if my daughters preference of where she wants to live  constitutes a chage of circumstane I would like to use that.

4. Is it possible to make a "deal" with the ex IE: still pay child support but gain custody?

[socrateaser]

>She stated her mother:
>
>1.  Beats her with a belt
>2.  Slaps her in the face
>3.  Beats her with a hanger
>4.  Tells her she is gong to kill herself
>5.  Tells her she should give her away
>
>My daughter has stated that she would like to live with me.
>She is 8 and will be 9 in Nov.
>
>She even asked her mother if she could stay longer, mom said
>no you don't live there.  

>1.  At what age does a child have to be in  a FL court  to
>have some say where he/she wants to live?

The answer is simply, that when the court finds that the child is mature enough to testify competently about her circumstances, then the court will listen to her testimony.

>2.  If by chance ex lets daughter stay for extended period of
>time is it still 6 months for IL to get jurisdiciton even
>though the order states FL is the home state.  In other words
>can IL be made the home state?

Yes, in 6 months.

>3.  Is this a change of circumstance (Ie: the abuse) or the
>child's wishes

The abuse, absolutely, if you can prove it. The child's wishes, maybe, depends on the judge.

>
>I would not like to make abuse allegations as last time it
>cost me 2 years with my daughter so if my daughters preference
>of where she wants to live  constitutes a chage of circumstane
>I would like to use that.

Well, I don't mean to seem annoyed, but "frankly, I don't give a damn" about your feelings on this issue. If you know that the child is suffering physical abuse at the hands of her mother, then you MUST try to do something NOW, or you are a criminal accomplice to child abuse, because you are encouraging the abuse by knowingly allowing it to occur.

Take the child to a psychologist and have her evaluated to determine if her statements are likely true, or just childhood ranting. Consider having the child submit to a polygraph exam, to ascertain whether or not she is telling the truth (hard to prove because children sometimes believe in fairy tales, and that may fool the examiner).

Then, if you have expert testimony agreeing that the child is being physically abused, file for an emergency custody order in your State (not FL), until the matter can be sorted out. Sometimes a judge will keep the child from the parent suspected of abuse for a time long enough such that the child's testimony will become increasingly more believable to the court. Then, the child will never be returned to the mother.

You can also tell the child that the next time the mother abuses her physically, that the child should pick up the phone and dial 911 so that the police can try to get good evidence of the bruises.

You cannot, however, just sit and wait. This is not some sort of chess game where no one is being injured. So, kindly, MOVE YOUR ASS!

Ok?

>4. Is it possible to make a "deal" with the ex IE: still pay
>child support but gain custody?

Buying custody of the child is the sale of a human being -- also known as slavery. There are laws against this. I think that they are felonies. LOL! Your attorney will not make such an offer on your behalf, but if you could get the other parent to write something to the effect that she would agree to grant you custody in return for some amount of money, then that would be grounds for a change in custody. The trick is that she must make the offer, and you must reject it, because you recognize it as the mother's callous willingness to trade human life in exchange for money.

But, if you appear to be encouraging this behavior, then both you and the mother could find yourselves paying support to a foster parent-guardian. So, be careful.

[wallyworld]

I understand exactly what  you are saying.  My problem is this:  Last time in 2002 we did exactly that.  We tried to get an exparte restraining order based on the allegations.  The judge had my daughter get on the stand 5 ft from her mother.  

Well it didn't matter. He said that FL was the home state.  So back to her mother she went.  The same day.  Then I didn't see her for 2 years because FL courts bascially screwed me.  We filed two contempts (through my lawyer).  Tha t didn't matter either.  

The problem is my daughter doesn't want her mom to get in trouble so.... I don't think she'd tell the judge or anyone including a psycholsist about the abuse.  

So....

1.  Can I call FL depart of child services to and see how it is founded?
2.   what  do i do if I do get an emergcney order and then daughter is sent back to FL again as FL is the homestate?  
3.  What  do I do.  I know the obvious answer is just  go for it.  BUt you see I cannot bank on my daughter telling the truth because of fear for her mother going to jail or fear from physical harm from her mother.
4.  My daughter is terrified or court now.  I brought up to her about speaking to the judge again or a psychologist about what happened and going to court for her to stay here.  When I said that she denied the abuse... So how do I do it with NO physical proof and no testimony from my daughter

[socrateaser]

>1.  Can I call FL depart of child services to and see how it
>is founded?

Waste of time unless there is physical evidence of injury.

>2.   what  do i do if I do get an emergcney order and then
>daughter is sent back to FL again as FL is the homestate?  

Tell the media in advance about the hearing and make certain that the judge knows a reporter is in the courtroom.

>3.  What  do I do.  I know the obvious answer is just  go for
>it.  BUt you see I cannot bank on my daughter telling the
>truth because of fear for her mother going to jail or fear
>from physical harm from her mother.

If the child will not defend herself, then there's little that you can do.

>4.  My daughter is terrified or court now.  I brought up to
>her about speaking to the judge again or a psychologist about
>what happened and going to court for her to stay here.  When I
>said that she denied the abuse... So how do I do it with NO
>physical proof and no testimony from my daughter

You can't do anything. You'll just have to wait until the child is old enough to decide that her interests should prevail over her mom's. Perhaps if you reminded the mom that her daughter will not always be a child, and that the statute of limitations on child abuse is very long indeed, that the mother might moderate her behavior.

Other than that, it appears that you're gonna have to try to wait out the six month time limit. But even then, the local court doesn't absolutely have to accept jurisdiction, so it's really all about what the child wants, unless the mother abuses the child so extensively that there is no way to deny it to CPS.