Helpmyson

[BobbyLee]

I am extremely frustrated with the courts. I am finally getting a legal divorce after 3 years of seperation. I tried going back briefly a year and a half ago because I felt so bad leaving the children with her. My soon-to-be-ex is dragging it on and on. She tells my children (ages 9 & 14) that I have ruined their lives and betrayed them. She also tells them that they are poor now because of me. I pay a great deal of child support and my children do not want for anything. She has terrible budgeting skills and refuses to work more than a couple of hours in the morning. The judge made a temporary decision that we switch every other week in the summer, but I only get them every other weekend during the school year because we can't along at all. Because my 14 year old daughter told the law guardian I have 'ruined her life' (I wonder where she got that from?) and that she wants to live with her mother, my son has to live there too. They said that they do not want to split up the kids. They also said that they realize that there is no structure or stability in her household, but that the 14 year old chose there. She is a very troubled kid and I hate that I am unable to help her. She refuses to see me at all now. I also hate that she is allowed to influence my son's life like this. Not only do I barely get to see him, but he is living with two very troubled, unhappy females that like to talk about how terrible I am and how terrible life is because of me. Every Sunday evening that my son is with me, he gets upset and tells me that he doesn't want to go back. I tell him that I am doing everything I can, but honestly I do not know what to do. The law guardian told me that I would have to prove her unfit...but the only people that she is ever around (she has no friends, very poor social skills) is her family and they are not going to testify against her. My lawyer tells me I have to wait until he is 12, and will have a say. I am just afraid of all of the damage that will occur until then. Does anyone have any advice?? Oh, also to meet her, you know right away something is not right. She has been advised to seek counseling many times, she has started a few times, but quits. Everyone that meets her or interacts with her always has some weird story to tell me about her behavior or things that she says. But, she provides basic food and shelter, so I don't know if it matters! Also, I do not involve my kids in the details of the divorce or talk badly about her to them. Is there any organization that can help me in NY?

[MYSONSDAD]

You have a lot of PAS going here.

You have a damned good reason to be concerned.

What State are you in?

Here are some things to get you started. There are also several good articles here that relate to PAS. Use the search engine at the top.

           Tips For Getting Started
http://www.deltabravo.net/news/10-19-2000.htm

Custody faq's- read this one also
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/index.html

How To Hire An Attorney
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/hiring.htm

Hiring An Effective Attorney
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/effective.htm

Success Factors In Obtaining Custody
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/tips.htm

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/missed-visit.htm

Suggestions When Falsely Accused
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/falseacc1.htm

Dealing With Threats Of False Allegations
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/blackmail.htm

URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/guide.htm


http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pplan3.htm

Good luck!

[Peanutsdad]

Here are some things to be aware of:


http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-vassiliou.htm

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-gardner06.htm

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-navarre.htm

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-gardner01.htm

THE SPECTRUM OF PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME (PART I)
Parental Alienation Syndrome is a distinctive family response to divorce in which the child becomes aligned with one parent and preoccupied with unjustified and/or exaggerated denigration of the other target parent.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/rand01.htm - size 40kb - 20 Oct 2003
12. Mediation And Parental Alienation Syndrome by Anita Vestal
This article looks at parental alienation syndrome (PAS), which is a complex manifestation of mental and emotional abuse resulting from conflicted parents fighting for custody.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-vestal.htm - size 52kb - 20 Oct 2003
13. Recommendations for Dealing with Parents Who Induce a Parental Alienation Syndrome in Their Children
PAS is commonly seen in highly contested child-custody disputes. The author has described three types: mild, moderate, and severe, each of which requires special approaches by both legal and mental health professionals.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-gardner02.htm - size 54kb - 20 Oct 2003
14. THE SPECTRUM OF PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME (PART II)
Studies of target parents who are falsely accused of abuse report they tend to be less disturbed than their accusing counterparts.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/rand12.htm - size 53kb - 20 Oct 2003
15. THE SPECTRUM OF PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME (PART II)
Parental Alienation Syndrome is a distinctive family response to divorce in which the child becomes aligned with one parent and preoccupied with unjustified and/or exaggerated denigration of the other target parent.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/rand11.htm - size 44kb - 20 Oct 2003
16. Parental Alienation Information Archive
All the information on the SPARC site regarding Parental Alienation has been consolidated on this central reference page.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pasarchive.htm - size 17kb - 20 Oct 2003
17. THE SPECTRUM OF PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME (PART II) (cont.)
In the following case, the accused father was an officer in the military. Testimony on PAS by the defense expert provided the judge and jury with some alternative explanations as to the reasons the children accused their stepfather of abuse.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/rand13.htm - size 31kb - 20 Oct 2003
18. THE SPECTRUM OF PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME (PART I)
Parental Alienation Syndrome is a distinctive family response to divorce in which the child becomes aligned with one parent and preoccupied with unjustified and/or exaggerated denigration of the other target parent.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/rand02.htm - size 44kb - 20 Oct 2003
19. Expanding the Parameters of PAS
The newness of the parental alienation syndrome (PAS) compels its redefinition and refinement as new cases are observed and the phenomenon becomes better understood.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-cartwright.htm - size 32kb - 20 Oct 2003
20. PAS: How to Detect It and What to Do About It
Although parental alienation syndrome (PAS) is a familiar term, there is still a great deal of confusion and unclarity about its nature, dimensions, and, therefore, its detection.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-walsh2.htm - size 24kb - 20 Oct 2003




One of the first things you'll hear around here is "Document, document, document!". Having good records is *crucial*. Get yourself either the Parenting Time Tracker (PTT) at: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/tracker.htm or the OPTIMAL Custody Tracking service at: http://www.parentingtime.net. The PTT is good, but the OPTIMAL service is definitely better.


http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/acronyms.htm

[msme]

Get involved with your children's schools. Develop a relationship with their teachers & their counselors. They see your kids every day. Encourage the children to talk to their school counselor. They can be your greatest allys in court.

Good luck & God bless
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[MYSONSDAD]

Have you ever considered Modifying your visitation over a custody change? Would be less expensive with possibly better results. Many Parenting Plans on this site. You can adjust them to fit your needs.

"Children learn what they live"

[StPaulieGirl]

It's none of anyone's business, but I'm curious as to who filed for divorce and the reason.

Is she a little on the mental side?  Take advantage of everyone's links on PAS, and parenting plans.  Find some counseling (NOT through the county!!!) to help yourself deal with the pain.  There is still a 'you' in this equation.  

I have a suggestion, but I don't know if it would make things worse between you and your daughter.  At 14, you can't force her to go with her, so don't even ask her.  Pick up your son, smile and say hello to your girl and ask her how she's doing....and leave.  Change tactics, and never let them see you cry.  It might make her think.  Right now, she's aligned herself with her mother's views on things.  Reverse psychology might work.  You might want to run this by someone before you try it.

Good luck to you and your family.

[BobbyLee]

I filed for divorce after years of trying to get her some help. I sued for cruel and inhumane treatment. She does have mental health issues.  We went for counseling several yers ago and the therapist recommended that she get some therapy alone. When we started our daughter intherapy, the therapists recommende that she get some help...she did for a few weeks. She has been in and out of therapy and from church to church. As soon as they challenge her or call her on her behavior, she quits. I was fed up with the verbal abuse and sometimes physical attacks. I have been out of the house for three years and have dated some, and she still will say that she knows that I love her and that we were so good togerther. In the next breath she will tell me how terrrible I was. If I try to do anything extra for the kids sake, she says 'you can't do that for me' 'I knew that you still loved me'. If I don't do anything extra I have betrayed the kids.  I realize that my poor choices have created this mess, but it is my children who are suffering because of it.
 I do see a therapist and she is a god send.  She has met my soon-to-be-ex and said that she has a dependent personality and is now using the kids for that purpose. She thinks that she is going to fail miserably and that I will get the kids soon, I am just afraid of what the kids are going through now. I am going to contact the law guardian again.  

[hisliltulip]

I am in no way a shrink, psychologist or even a councilor, but I was a teenage girl.

So, if you're interested, here is my take on the situation with your daughter...

She is angry at the situation.  You left, and she and brother are stuck with Mom.  Her life is "ruined" because you are not there to take the heat from her Mom.  She is the oldest child, so she has to pick up the slack to help Mom.  She is resentful towards you, because she has unwanted responsibility of an adult.

She doesn't want to leave Mom, because she still loves her, even if you don't.  She feels sorry for her Mother.  Yes, she loves you, but you don't NEED her like Mom does.  She is living in a constant guilt trip for still loving you.  Whether she verbalizes those feelings or not.  Every time her Mom bad-mouths you, inside, she feels guilty, because she just can't stop loving you.

Now, please please please, do not take this as me bashing you.  I am NOT doing that in any way.  I am just viewing it from how I felt as a teenager.  No, Mom and Dad didn't split up at that point, but Dad was working 5 hours away, and was only home Friday night until Monday morning.  I became an instant parent.  Taking care of sibs, making dinner, helping them with homework while I worked on mine, taking them to school, picking them up from school, doing the grocery shopping, and listening over and over and over how awful Dad was...

Now, of course, Dad did not know what was going on.  I thought he did, but learned later that Mom was bad-mouthing me to him, so he thought I was never a help!  (Anyway, that is a whole 'nother story!)

Now, I am "pushing 30" and Dad and I have a better relationship than me and my Mom.  It has been that way since I was about 19.

Hang in there, be strong, do NOT give up on your daughter.

Oh, and you might try a trick my Dad did...

Send her roses (to school).  Girls like romance, especially from their Daddy.

God Bless, Keep at it.

[BobbyLee]

Thanks Beth.
  I hear similar things from a lot of people.  There are so many variables involved here.  She did live with me for 6 months (from a psych stay to my house), but she did not like rules-which are not present at her mother's.  She was doing really well, then summer came and she spent more time at her mother's and then refused to come back altogether.  We were terrible parents to her and I have only learned what parenting is all about in the past 3 years.  Her mother hasn't.  We fought constantly in front of the kids and never did things together as a family becuase I really couldn't stand being around their mother.  Since I've been 'out', I have become much more involved and want to do the right things for my children.  I just hope that my daughter can see that.  She has blocked my e-mail and tells her brother that she no longer has a father.  Her mother treats her as her pal and companion.  She used to ask me why I don't talk to her like her mother does. She shared details of our relationship and told her all sorts of thing that one would never tell a kid. I refuse to that. I do not tell her of all the crazy things her mother did over the years. Hopefully someday my daughter will figure things out. I always greet her when I see her.  She refuses to speak with me or to spend time with me.  But, I am here when she is ready.  My son has not bought into the stuff his mother tells him.  He enjoys being with me and wants more time than 4 days a month. The school guidance counselor told me today that she thinks he is depressed because he wants to see me more.  So, this is where I am focusing my efforts right now. The courts have already said that despite my daughter's history and her mother's instability she is 14 and has the right to choose.  

[BobbyLee]

Thank you. I met with the counselor today and she is very concerned with my son. She feels he is very depressed and needs additional counseling. She stated that he has expressed that he wants to see me more often.  Right now it is every other weekend.  His mother told him that he could come with me on special occasions.  She refused to let him spend time with me on my birthday...it fell on a Sunday and he sat at her house all day.  She told me that my birthday is not important anymore. The thing that infuriates me is that I took the kids on a vacation and shortened it by a day to bring them back to their mother's for her birthday (as she requested) and took them shopping first to get her a present.  I also had them get presents for her for mother's day.  Anyway I have volunteered at his school and have talked with the counselor last year as well. She is going to meet with his mother and express the same concerns.  We'll see if this goes anywhere.  Thanks.

[BobbyLee]

As I research this more, I find more information that fits this situation. She fits the criteeria for Borderline Personality Disorder...how do I prove that or use that to help my kids?  Even if she would get some help, my kids would be better off.

[StPaulieGirl]

Your daughter might be suffering from what is affecting your stbx.  These conditions can be handed down genetically, unfortunately.  Work with the counselors and therapists, but  don't let yourself get used because of how much you love them.

Psychiatric evaluation on both mother and daughter....because you DO care.  Call the law guardian ASAP.  Always remember that you have a basic human right to decent treatment, and so do your kids.  

[gipsy]

this is sad . But the bottom line is this site has information in it , search through this site , I kept keeping on and My son see's the truth , I always see him and he is only 5 yo And He knows his mom is doing wrong ,  Read all about parental alienation on this site , There is a usual and basic process that the sicko's do , And I am willing to guess that You didn't see your daughter for a while while Mom poisened her mind , I had a cousin  that went through the same , And I BENT HIS EAR  ,  told him about the parental alienation ,And he filed contempt , In wash state its the parents responsibility to Have the child ready , I am know  that  Mom has told the Girl all this , As with My cousin when I got him to file , And I went to the first pick up of the child [with a video camera to assist him ] It was a big deal and his daughter was crying . And saying she did not want to go , And was in the past refusing to come to my cousins house , So I Bent and bent his ear , And Told Him he should not give up , He went through all the bs about thinking its his daughter that now hated him and he did not want to file contempt , And force his daughter to come over , And She would hate him more when she got older  etc ,  Well He followed through , As I said I showed up with the video camera , The daughter was at the " Sick sister of the mother's house ' And they  tryed to put up a fuss And Two witnesses were on our side , and I told cousin to get the child and come on !! His daughter was refuseing and crying , He put his arm around Her And sort of forced her away . then the sick sister flipped us off and I put the video camera on her ,And good behavior started , SOOOO . With the contempt fileing and the video camera they realised we were serious , And Now for the part you really need to hear , My cousin did very well and took his daughter camping and they had fun , I told Him long ago and I am telling you . You need to spend time with your daughter with out mom BS and see what she say's , , Then decide , For now Your daughter is brain washed , Don't let this happen to your son , And now for the part that You really need , And I learned this too / It's a ditto story , I went through the same crap . And I took My poor little Son away when he was screaming for his mom , I later found  she was telling him I was going to hurt him , The CONCLUSION  ' By both of our persistance and Continued contact and focusing on Having fun with the Kids , Heres My results , My son Is 5 YO , An tells me His mom tortures him By talking bad about me ,
   My cousins  daughter Is now refusing to live with Mom . And Mom Let the daughter go to My cousins , This is supposed to sort out, and  My cousins X Thinks that the daughter is gong to live with grandma , And thinks My cousin Is going to assist in convincing the daughter Of this , And My cousin went along with this , NOW What do you think he is doing ? He is contacting atty's to figure his options ,/ I  Strongly direct you to" not" give up and force a couple of visits with your daughter , ' The reason . Is Because , My son has told me again and again , that he realises I am not bad [As his mom say's I am ] And  I went to a counselor and the counselor told me He was an expert about children etc , And that he refuses to believe that some one can make a child dislike Me ,  In combination with the info on this site about Parental alienation, I believe this site is correct ,  The alienating parent achieves this By doing what the Mother has done to your daughter , And By haveing a period when you don't see the daughter  While she poisens the mind then the child begins to refuse visits , And It becomes a relief when the court orders visits , And Now the child has a reason to go see dad , Or mom gets into trouble , In conclusion , I believe, My self and My cousin, have won ,By Not ever giving up , fileing contempt and keeping as much contact as possible , And My son and his daughter are now seeing the truth for themselves . My thoughts are force the visits by the court , My atty Told my cousin , its a the parents responsibilty to Direct the children and foster a relationship , And My cousin filed contempt , And Is winning the battle in a big way , He had the same as your the daughter was refusing visits based on crap the mother was saying , And look at him now , this has backfired on the sick mother , I believe  we just need to be the sane parent And the kids will see , By the way why was there a Law Guardian , There must have been some problem ,  Guardian ad Litems aren't always the sharpest .And If you let her win and give up on your daughter then thats what the sicko wants , I repeat don't let this happen . Force the visits so the daughter can see a happy place at your house this could turn around like it is for my cousin right now 1!!!, As for the mother of My son , He tells Me she is easing upo a bit on the BS , I believe the reason Is , She see's that I will hold her to the letter of the law And I won't give up . And she is starteing to quit a bit aof the BS , I believe My son will soon be wanting out of His mothers house if I maintain a good rlationship with Him and don't give the mother a period of My absence in wich she could poisen His Mind , Read this site about Parental alienation