Lost today, now what?

[DecentDad]

Soc,

Judge started out by saying that he hasn't fully reviewed our case, but it's clear this has all be going on for a long time.  He looked at the prior OSC (denied), and commented that this one seems identical.

He said, if dad's right, mom has serious issues that are not good for the child.

He said, if mom's right, the child is in crisis.

He immediately granted my request for a child psychologist, to help child.

At that point, biomom's attorney volunteered that child threatened suicide last night, if ever forced back to father's home.

Biomom's words about the 'suicide attempt' were that six year old daughter said, "I don't want to be on this earth".

I pointed out to judge that the class went to a space museum on a field trip yesterday.

Biomom said child was despondent when saying it.

Judge's whole tone then changed, despite much back and forth between biomom's attorney and I about the symptoms only be present in biomom's home (to which OC says because child can't express them in my home).

Judge said he wanted to err on the side of caution about the overnights, and hence stripped all overnights from my home.

He ordered child to attend at least 3 therapy sessions in next 30 days.  He agreed with me that alternating parents bringing child to sessions is a good idea.

He appointed minor's counsel.

He scheduled an update hearing a month out.

I asked him specifically to clarify for me if he is disregarding two prior judges rulings about the situation, if he is disregarding a 730 evaluator's report, and is basing this all on the hearsay biomom claims child said last night.

He said, "Essentially, yes".

I contemplated for a split second objecting that his ruling was an abuse of discretion, given lack of any valid evidence, but I decided not to (I'm not sure if it applies to temp orders).

He concluded with that if he is convinced in 30 days that biomom's hysteria is to blame for all this, he'd expect me to ask for more custodial time, and he can expect that mom will pay the price with loss of time.

The court didn't find that I had done anything wrong at all as a parent.  He made no comments of concern AT ALL about any of my actions.


1.  I'm at a loss that biomom's hearsay comment about child was given any weight, particularly with her long-standing demonizing of me.  Is it even an issue to address at this time?

2.  I'm at a loss that this newbie judge (3 years on the bench, was an insurance litigator before that) completely ignored the previous findings about these same issues.  Any issue to address at this time?

3.  As child has reported to me, I believe biomom pressures child to say bad things about my home.  How do I convey this to the minor's counsel?  Is it appropriate to request a meeting with minor's counsel to address my concerns?

4. Given that my time with child is now restricted, I'm concerned that biomom has even greater opportunity to program child.  Have you ever experienced that a child psychologist would have any valuable insights into alienation tactics after meeting with a kindergartener (who has been poisoned for years) for 3 sessions?

5.    Should I file an OSC for the date of the follow-up, seeking relief from today's ruling?

6.  What now?!  It feels like 4 years of very slow progress against this unstable woman, all flushed down the drain because a new judge apparently wants to examine all the issues anew.

DD

[socrateaser]

>1.  I'm at a loss that biomom's hearsay comment about child
>was given any weight, particularly with her long-standing
>demonizing of me.  Is it even an issue to address at this
>time?

No, you're not at a loss. Do you think that the judge would want blood on his/her hands? If the mom has just lied to the court, then perhaps the therapist can get the child to state that she never said anything like what has been alleged, or the therapist will state that the kid is happy as a clam. If so, then you will have grounds for a complete reversal of custody.

My advice is that you be wonderful with the kid when you have her and don't make any issue about the lack of overnights. But, I would also record every single second when you're with the child and if she asks you when she can come to daddy's house to sleep again, THEN YOU GET BACK INTO COURT WITH THAT RECORDING ASAP, and move for a change of custody.

>
>2.  I'm at a loss that this newbie judge (3 years on the
>bench, was an insurance litigator before that) completely
>ignored the previous findings about these same issues.  Any
>issue to address at this time?

See above. I realize this is very emotional, and it certainly looks as though the mother is the monster from hell, but you have to play the cards you're dealt, and at the moment, cooperating with the court and trying to get the evidence you need is the way to go.

Now, had you the video tape that we discussed previously, you could have shown the child as happy and content and that would likely have destroyed the mother's claims. But, you didn't, and so you're stuck with the apparent lies affecting the judge.

Perhaps opposing counsel instructed mother how to respond if the judge wasn't moving in her direction. Huge ethical violation if true, but impossible to prove, so don't dwell on it.

>3.  As child has reported to me, I believe biomom pressures
>child to say bad things about my home.  How do I convey this
>to the minor's counsel?  Is it appropriate to request a
>meeting with minor's counsel to address my concerns?

The GAL will be contacting you. If you get all bent out of shape, it will affect the GAL's view of you, so calm down.

>
>4. Given that my time with child is now restricted, I'm
>concerned that biomom has even greater opportunity to program
>child.  Have you ever experienced that a child psychologist
>would have any valuable insights into alienation tactics after
>meeting with a kindergartener (who has been poisoned for
>years) for 3 sessions?

You need to get a recorder and you need to keep it running whenever you're with your kid. Look, alienation is a real possiblity, but not if you are simply loving the kid whenever you're with her. You need to clear your mind of any vindictiveness and just concentrate on being happy with the time you have -- make the most of it and the child will not be programmed against you.

>5.    Should I file an OSC for the date of the follow-up,
>seeking relief from today's ruling?

Don't go rushing back to court. Wait for the 30 day hearing. You may end up with all sorts of useful evidence that you don't know about yet.

>6.  What now?!  It feels like 4 years of very slow progress
>against this nutjob, all flushed down the drain because a new
>judge apparently wants to examine all the issues anew.

You didn't lose today. If I were the judge I would be hoping that the mother is committing custodial suicide (for lack of a better metaphor). If things work out and the judge finds the mother's allegations meritless, she will be in the soup.

Frankly, if it's really mom who's mentally disturbed, then she may end up with no custody at all and that may send her right over the edge into an institution. In 30 days, you may actually have grounds to force mom into undergoing a psychiatric eval in order to retain any custody.

[Dadxl5]

DecentDad,

So much of what you wrote describes what I went through and still experience.

Soc is right about "calm down."  At least around your ex and especially around your daughter.  It's been six years since my first court appearance.  The only thing I've found that matters at all is that my son knows without question that he can get emotional support from dad.  

I'm working on having to take my ex back to court.  Her attorney was pretty nasty too.  But I have to weigh all that against what will be worse for my son.  Continued bad parenting by his custodial mother or the terror of another court conflict.  

It's a long-term effort.  Take Soc's advice the best you can.  Record as much as you can.  Be the light in your child's life, no matter what and keep going.

Have you ever heard of BPDCentral?  If your ex seems over the edge, you may find some support and insight there too.  

You didn't really lose today.  I know how much it hurts to have to accept less time with your child.  But if you keep going, you will end up with more time again.  I think that when you're dealing with a difficult ex, it's inevitable. Make your time with your child her best, happiest time.  Protect her from the adult stuff and you'll see her bloom right in front of you.

Good luck

Ill

[socrateaser]

Per the board rules, please do not refer to the other parent as a "nutjob," "wackjob," or by any other intentionally derogotary term.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[Dadxl5]

Understood.

Do you know the Statute of Limitations on Forgery in California?  Going to have to start classes if this keeps up.

Thanks

[DecentDad]

Sorry, I slipped.  I edited it.

I spoke with my daughter tonight by phone.  I recorded it (along with announcing date/time at beginning).  It was a 15 minute silly fun conversation (as typical when I can get through to her).

She had her "sharing day" today in school, and she described on the phone how she shared her memory of our summer camping trip (i.e., a positive memory).

From there, she got to talking about bears (because we saw some camping), and she asked in fun, "What if you were camping, and you were on a cozy bed, and you woke up and your bed was a grizzly bear?!"

I said, well, it'd be cozy until the bear woke up.  She said, "Yeah, because then you'd be dead."

I said that I didn't want to die because I still had a lot of stuff I wanted to do with my life.  She said, "Me too".

I asked, "You're not ready to die?"

She said, "No, I'm only six.  I'm a little kid.  I'm not even old yet."

Then she said that she DID want to die before momma and me and her stepmom, so that way she wouldn't ever have to be sad if we died.  And that we can be sad, but she'll be happy in heaven.

Then she described that she doesn't want to die until she's 200, or maybe "ten hundred" when she's very very old.  She did an old lady voice, asking momma and daddy for help because she's so old.

THEN... she started talking about Checkers. (she took Checkers - board the game - to her mother's at 7pm last night, to try to beat her mother.

On the phone today, she told me that she BEAT her mom in Checkers last night, but she could only play one game because it was bedtime.  She described in detail how she got four crowns, etc, that momma jumped her too, but she won.  Her details indicate it happened.

She wanted to know how big wife's tummy is (she asks daily).  Excitedly talked with stepmom about baby stuff (she's excited).

And the rest of the 15 minutes was just normal, fun, silly stuff... a healthy six year old.


--------------

POINTS

The child spend 15 minutes chatting happily with me, still trying to talk with me as I was trying to hang up because I could hear it was her dinner time in the background.  She's comfortable and not scared of me.

The child was playing Checkers the same time she was supposedly suicidal, according to this dialogue and according to testimony in court today.

The child described adamantly that she doesn't want to die until she's old.  She's not hesitant to chat about death, weaving in and out of imagination, which is hardly indicative of a child so distraught she wants to die.

Without any influence from me, the child shared a positive memory of a camping trip (sleeping with me and stepmom in a tent, far away from home) with her class.  This was on the same day a court ruled no overnights with dad.

This is a phone call transcript that could NOT have been coached beforehand with child (i.e., it was my first time talking with her since learning about the suicide threat).

-------------

Remember, I asked the court on the record to clarify for me if he was disregarding prior findings of judge's and an evaluator and is making today's ruling based only on what the mother claimed the child said about suicide last night.  Judge said, "Essentially, yes."

I feel this transcript would obliterate the credibility of the mother's hearsay testimony (perhaps coupled with child's school attendance record for today, showing normal attendance).

1.  I'm now extremely concerned that biomom has fabricated a suicide threat that has led to this circus that is going to sweep up child in a whirlwind of probing and examination.  Is a certified transcript of this conversation good enough grounds to go Ex Parte to reinstate the status quo, or seek even more custodial time given that mother is willfully misleading the court in order to destroy the paternal bond (i.e., per her long pattern)... and the irreparable harm is that new evidence suggests the hearsay was unreliable (for the court's prior ruling) and with every passing week, important routine and predictability in this child's life are being destroyed.

2.  How else would you suggest I use this transcript?  Give to therapist?  Give to minor's counsel?

[socrateaser]

>1.  I'm now extremely concerned that biomom has fabricated a
>suicide threat that has led to this circus that is going to
>sweep up child in a whirlwind of probing and examination.  Is
>a certified transcript of this conversation good enough
>grounds to go Ex Parte to reinstate the status quo, or seek
>even more custodial time given that mother is willfully
>misleading the court in order to destroy the paternal bond
>(i.e., per her long pattern)... and the irreparable harm is
>that new evidence suggests the hearsay was unreliable (for the
>court's prior ruling) and with every passing week, important
>routine and predictability in this child's life are being
>destroyed.

I understand your concern, but you're not going to get the judge to reverse course instantly again, so just keep collecting evidence and don't panic. I think you're overreacting to the likelihood that the child will be brainwashed to believe that you are an evil monster during the next 30 days.

What you want is for the child to start asking you on the fone, when she can come sleep at your house. I don't think that a conversation about dying is what you want to put in front of the judge -- it's too weird a conversation for a six year old and it could make you seem a little obsessive about trying to prove your case.

>
>2.  How else would you suggest I use this transcript?  Give to
>therapist?  Give to minor's counsel?

At the moment, I think you should just hold it back in favor of potentially better material. I'm just responding to what you've posted -- it feels uncomfortable to me, so I think it will feel the same to the court officers. I wouldn't use this evidence.

[DecentDad]

Aside from the temporary setback today... I'm mostly concerned that this 30 days is going to turn into the status quo, failing evidence that DISPROVES the false allegation that the court has already used as a basis for its decision.

I know it ain't realistic to expect a child psychologist to hand over any conclusions about a child after only 3 sessions, and biomom's attorney will likely request a continuance in 30 days (i.e., because that would be to her client's advantage).

I know a newly appointed child's counsel has a conflict of interest in minimizing litigation with quick resolution, due to financial incentive to prolong it (i.e., possible advocate for a continuance).

AND... biomom has tried for a move-away twice before (but has abandoned it due to suggestion from court that she may be unhappy with the custodial schedule).  This is a wonderful opportunity for her to segue into another one, now with very little risk.

If you're suggesting that I'm overreacting to all that... and that it's a far stretch to think that this judge isn't going to simply let the new orders become status quo for a while...

1.  Soc, I sincerely welcome you to critique the logic of these concerns I outlined... because if you can point me to my faulty assumptions, it'd really help me.

2.  Also, I'm not sure what exactly is going on right now, the more I think about it.  Therapy for child has been ordered, with at least 3 sessions to occur in next 30 days.  Minor's counsel has been appointed, who may wish to talk with therapist, and we're ordered to cooperate with minor's counsel.  So what exactly is on the table in 30 days, at which time we're back before the judge!?  Is this like a mini-evaluation?

3.  What happens if/when OC and I can't agree on a psychologist?

4.  Could an aggressive attorney be of any benefit to me at this point?

[socrateaser]

>1.  Soc, I sincerely welcome you to critique the logic of
>these concerns I outlined... because if you can point me to my
>faulty assumptions, it'd really help me.

You're making thirty days into the end of the world. You still get to see the child, just not overnight, so you should be able to obtain a lot of evidence of the child's behavior.

Remember, the mom is saying that the child doesn't want to live. You want to obtain audio-visual, and other evidence, proving that not only does the child want to live but that she wants to spend the night in your home. If you get some, then I'd go back to court. Especially if the evidence is just a straightforward statement like, "Daddy, when can I come sleep at your house?"

It would be a whole different bag of worms if you were being completely cut off from the child. And, as I've already mentioned, you may obtain some evidence that will provide a rationale to get back to court before 30 days -- I just don't think that a conversation about death with a six-year old is the evidence that you want to produce for the judge, because it may make you appear to be morbid.

But, maybe the evidence you have already is not really that way at all. I certainly would consider having an objective view from an attorney who's had some time with this judge.

>
>2.  Also, I'm not sure what exactly is going on right now, the
>more I think about it.  Therapy for child has been ordered,
>with at least 3 sessions to occur in next 30 days.  Minor's
>counsel has been appointed, who may wish to talk with
>therapist, and we're ordered to cooperate with minor's
>counsel.  So what exactly is on the table in 30 days, at which
>time we're back before the judge!?  Is this like a
>mini-evaluation?

The judge wants to know if the child is any distress or not. I would contact opposing counsel and suggest that the GAL pick a therapist, so as to avoid any bias or waste time. You want to make certain that you get someone immediately, because that could cause the therapy to extend out beyond the 30 day period and that would give your opponent a rationale for a continuance.

>
>3.  What happens if/when OC and I can't agree on a
>psychologist?

See above.

>
>4.  Could an aggressive attorney be of any benefit to me at
>this point?

I am not going to suggest that you go it alone if you think you need an attorney. You've been doing pretty well so far, but if you're wondering about whether you can handle it, then maybe that's the signal to yourself that you can't.

[DecentDad]

Yeah, yeah, I know I'm delving into emotional reaction on a legal guidance board.  I'm trying to manage both concurrently (hence wondering if I'm able to handle the legal aspect right now and questioning if an attorney could do anything different over next 30 days).

Two more questions...

1.  Court appointed GAL that OC proposed.  You'd still leave it up to the GAL to make decision on psychologist?

2.  If I get evidence indicating child misses the overnights in my home or is definitively not suicidal, what's the legal vehicle I use to bring it to the court?  Ex Parte?  Normal OSC is 21 calendar days out, so that seems moot given that we're already on calendar for June 6.