Lost my job

[c_alexander]

I lost my job today because I wanted to spend my parenting time over the week of Christmas with my daughter. My daughter Jessie is flying in from Colorado to Indiana the weekend before Christmas and I had planned to spend the week with her. Although I started a new job just 3 weeks ago I had notified them of this time during my interview and let them know that I had to have this time in order to accept the position. They offered me the position and in the process "lost" all notes regarding this time off and it being a factor of my taking the job. All of my efforts to fix this situation including offering to work a small amount during that week and take my personal days for the rest were quickly snubbed out. It was today that I discovered the personal responsible for the decisions. A young out of college married woman without children (surprise!).  Buring a discussion with her on this matter I was told that "all of us want to spend the holidays with our family. My parents are in Arizona I would like to see them..." when I pointed out that she had never had to spend thousands of dollars to get a judge to grant you visitation with her parents, and that she had the pleasure of growing up in her parents home for 18 years of her life and that I did not have that luxury with my daughter, and when I pointed out that this was the first time I had been granted parenting time with my daughter in 6 months or that I had not had her for Christmas day in over 3 years. It is truly a very SAD thing to see a company that claims to be family oriented turn their backs on the struggling non custodial parents in their hire. I have no doubts that had I been a single mother there would be 5-6 organizatiosn taht would have sued this company on my behalf had they terminated me for the same reasons.  It is truly a SAD SAD thing

[ocean]

Do you know who you interviewed with? Maybe you can write a letter to a higher up explaining the circumstances and that you are more than willing to stay on with them in exchange for the time off? Sorry to hear that you have to deal with that....It will get better.....and you will see your daughter!

[c_alexander]

I went as high as I could in the company, however no one above this lady would deal with the situation they all passed the buck. I am not so saddened about loosing my job, but rather that there is still closed mindedness and ignorance in the world in regards to the struggles of us non custodial parents. I was told in the end that I was not allowed to use my "no fault" points to call in and spend time with my daughter, however I know of several instances where mothers were allowed to take these days to take their children to the doctors, or if they did not have day care, etc. Thanks to Indiana being a no fault hiring state I can not press the issue because technically the company can terminate my employement at anytime for any reason they choose...so long as they claim it was not discrimination listed in the Equal Opportunity Laws. The real kicker is that I wasted a month at this company and am now even further behind in my quest to save enough cash to move to Colorado to be with my daughter. I would post the address to my website, but the administrator has asked for me not to post it here as it is a website that asks for donations, and I wish to respect that.

[backwardsbike]

I am sorry that you had to go through this and at the holidays too.  Especially after such a long time trying to grt the time with your daughter.

I am a NCP mom and nurse so I know about paying thousands of $$ to see your kids only to have your employer &*^% it up for you.  In health care no employer cares about your personal isues.  It always about the "numbers"...that is the right number of staff to patients.

For what it is worth I don't think you were in the right place to begin with employment-wise.  Enjoy the time with your child and know that when one door closes very often a window opens.  With a calm and open mind you will find that window.

Take care and enjoy the heck out of your visit.  It sure seems like you've earned it.

[MYSONSDAD]

You were looking for a job when you found that one. Might be something much better out there and you wouldn't have found it if that company did not let you go.

Move on, find that better place to be. If they did not let you go now, they would have found an excuse later. Enjoy your time with your daughter, it's Christmas! Many here won't have the opprotunity, count your blessings, one at a time.

Find employment later...time with your daughter is so much more important and remember, "what goes around, comes around" I hope that bitty gets a flat in a 40 below blizzard, with 60 mile an hour winds....

"Children learn what they live"

[joni]

I'm sorry to hear about this.  If the company is that insensitive about this, they can't be a great company to work for.

And for this young lady wanting to be with her parents, one day something will happen to her with regards to her own children and you betcha...she's going to have a flashback to you.  I'm glad you had the mindset to be able to very simply state what you had been going through.  She'll learn the hard way some day.

[c_alexander]

Yeah, I can only wonder what would have happened if I had asked for a raise..haha.

On a serious note I can not believe that a company which claims to be pro family and Christian to boot would fire a guy right before Christmas because he wanted to spend the week with his daughter whom he only gets to see 14% of the year.

Before I was escorted from the building like a common criminal I did manage to nab the e-mail address of the woman responsible for all of this mess. I am not telling anyone to e-mail here, but I will psot the address if anyone feels that they would want to... [email protected]

Anyway, I still plan to try to enjoy the holidays with my little one. Luckily all the Christmas presents are paid for and I have a little bit of a cushion until I can find a new job. Already have some leads, but might wait until after Christmas to pursue them...for obvious reasons..lol

If these kids only knew half of the stuff we have to go through to be a part of their lives...whew.

[bigsigh2004]

I don't feel that posting her e-mail address is very good form and will only solidify her reasoning in you being fired if anyone does e-mail her complaining on your behalf.

Quite honestly, you need to take some responsibility in this. It is not only the company's responsibility to note the time off you requested in your interview. If you did not get anything in writing mutally agreeing to this condition prior to starting, it never was a condition to employment that was binding.

There are people that work at that company with much more seniority who more than likely also, did not get all the time off they requested for the holidays due to workload. Just because of her parenting status you are taking this overly personally when in reality, her parenting status has nothing to do with the decision, but company policy does, and any person who has worked there longer, has "dibs" on time off before you would. It's called low man on the totem pole.

It sucks, but in this economy, there are more potential employees than there are jobs and you have to take the short end of the stick on occasion to keep yourself employed.

Good luck in the future in finding something, and take this as a lesson, if you are making any "conditions of employment" make sure they are IN WRITING and both you, and the company, have signed copies.

 

[c_alexander]

Depends on your point of view. My purpose in posting the e-mail address was not to be vindictive or hateful. More to the point I wanted this woman to fully understand the ramifications of her actions. Firing a non custodial father right before Christmas because he wanted to spend his court ordered visitation time with his child is more than just bad form..it is cruel, unjust and irresponsible. Any company that condones such actions needs to be informed that "we" the customers won't stand for it. ...much like Wal-mart and the T-shirts they were selling with the boy hate slogans on them.

As for getting everything in writing, I wonder what ever happened to the days when a mans word was his bond. "Getting it in writing" is only solidifying the belief that you can "trust no one", and I for one do not wish to live like that. Bottom line is that people in today's society must be held accountable for their actions...whether they are a corporation or a single individual. I did nothing wrong in my request for this time with my daughter. I was honest and forthright in noting this time during the interview and that it was a condition of me accepting the position. Throughout the entire ordeal I was honest and clearly stated my case. It had been pointed out to me that had I been dishonest and lied about the situation that I might very well still have my job. Now had I been dishonest then what kind of role model does that set for a child? Getting everything in writing and not living up to your word. Lying, cheating, stealing...it seems to be the only thing that this generation has learned thanks in no small party to reality TV shows....regardless. In the end what happened to me was wrong, sexist, and dishonest...and that is why I put the e-mail address up here. Not for revenge, but to let people like this know that their actions are not acceptable.

[bigsigh2004]

There are some things that I fully support, as a dad myself, when it comes to "injustice to fathers/men".

Fact of the matter is though, c alexander, is that they DIDN'T fire you because you were a "non custodial father who wanted to spend his court ordered visitation with his child".

They hired you due to your skillset. They fired you due to your inability to be there when they expected you to. It had nothing to do with the time of year or the fact you are an NCP father and she just decided to stick it to you as a CP mom. I'm sure if it were summer break, and not a holiday, and the same issue came up - the same thing would have happened to you. You need to take the personal affront out of it.

(quote)As for getting everything in writing, I wonder what ever happened to the days when a mans word was his bond. "Getting it in writing" is only solidifying the belief that you can "trust no one", and I for one do not wish to live like that(/quote)

Welcome to the 21st century and you better get used to it if you are going to be in corporate America. Do you not read the paper? Enron, Martha Stewart etc...trust in the business world? HA! Employment is a contract just as much as a contract on anything else.

If you wouldn't buy a house without making sure all your "i's" are dotted and "t's" are crossed, shouldn't you do the same about something equally important, your livelyhood?

Cover your a**, at all times. If you don't want to live that way, maybe you should find a way to be self employed - and you can use your word and a handshake on contracts.

[c_alexander]

The corporations that you mentioned got their just desserts in the end as I am sure that they deserved. Once again holding those accountable for their actions. What I was trying to say is that society should focus on the cause of all the lying cheating and stealing, rather then just telling everyone..."oh by the way trust no one". Catch my drift.

"They hired you due to your skill set. They fired you due to your inability to be there when they expected you to." This company has a no fault attendance policy in which personnel get points which they can use at anytime (according to the handbook), but when their points are gone they are terminated. I had only asked if I could use 2 days of my points for the time I needed off and the next thing I know I was terminated because they did not feel that asking to use my points was honest. Doesn't matter that I was 100% honest with them from the beginning at the interview and throughout the process and that THEY were the ones that did not live up to their promises. A coworker of mine the day before I lost my job I discovered called in 2 days in a row because her child had 2 separate doctors appointments. She did not even call in her absences they were no call no shows. She still has a job.  I on the other had "asked" if I could use my points. I did not even tell them I was going to use them and I got fired. Please tell me that is not discrimination?
The really stupid thing is that due to a freak snow storm here they were actually closed for the days that I needed off anyway. If I had said nothing at all I would still have a job...how sad is that? Lesson is that society does not care for honesty or integrity (2 traits that I strive daily to instill in my daughter) because in the end everyone thinks that everyone else is lying anyway. I am sure that some of you think I am lying right now....BUT it all does not matter.
What matters in the end is that regardless I got my time with my daughter for Christmas which has been GREAT by the way, I have been told by the boss of my prior job that I can come back anytime so after the Holidays I will be back to work, and with a small miracle I will be moving from Indiana to Colorado sometime late spring early summer so issues like this one should not come up anymore because I will be getting better parenting time then I have for now.

In the end I just needed to vent and express my emotions. During my talks with the woman that fired me I could NOT get across to her the importance of the limited time I have with my daughter at the moment. To her visitation with a daughter who lives 1,000 miles away and you get to spend a freaking 14% of the year with is the same as spending a holiday with family you see everyday. It surely is not the same as many of you can attest to. It is bothersome to me that far too many people have no idea the great lengths that many of us non custodial parents must go to in order to be parents to our children.

Anyway,  Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all

p.s. perhaps I am an idealist, but I have to ask you what kind of a world do you want to live in one where you have to "Cover your a**, at all times" or one where people were honest and had integrity? Doesn't matter which world we live in now...but which one do we want our children to live in.

[Hawkeye]

I agree, it's a sad commentary when ignorant, Corporate America shows it's stone cold heart as it so often does anymore. Mass layoffs always seem to happen just prior to Christmas, outsourcing of jobs to far corners of the globe and illegal immigrants sneaking over our borders, snatching up some of the only jobs left. What a mess. Guess we should consider ourselves lucky we can still vent about things, eh?

Bigsigh, sometimes it really does boil down to one corporate person to make or break a situation. Let me illustrate further... I worked in retail the past few years for a huge grocery/drug chain. When my PBFH ex-wife interferred with my court ordered 'visitation', I wasn't sure if I could work or not. Other times, she was suddenly hospitalized, so I had full custody at those times. Add to that, the stupid HIPPA laws, that prevented me from obtaining any kind of prognosis from the hospital/doctors without first obtaining a court order.

Contracts... hahaha, what about the contract between fathers and their children to fulfill their responsibility, whether it be time or money or both?

Thank Heaven for the boss I had at the time. He had grown up in the midst of a divorce, so had some first hand experience as to what I was going through, especially at the drop of a hat. Most times, all it took was a phone call to him, with as much advance warning as I had been given to get some time off, or garner some extra hours.

It appears this single gal that alexander wrote about is just clueless and is probably fearful enough for loosing her own job, so she just tows the company line and sticks to "policy". Shame on her and especially her higher ups for being so ignorant.

I think this should be sent to Glen Sacks, as it is precisely what he refers to when he cites the "moral blind spot" so rampant in corporations today.      

[MYSONSDAD]

Wish I had the gift of words, very well said.

Corporations are becoming more aware of the needs of their employees. This woman was insensitive. Someday she will get a feel of real life and she will remember what she did to you.

Hope your having a wonderful Christmas and enjoying every moment with your daughter.
 
>but I have to ask you what kind of a world do you want to live in one where you have to "Cover your a**, at all times" or one where people were honest and had integrity? Doesn't matter which world we live in now...but which one do we want our children to live in.<

Well put....and I agree

"Children learn what they live"

[c_alexander]

Yes, yes, yes...Hawkeye thank you very much you hit the nail on the head. You understand exactly what I was talking about...thank you.

I wanted everyone to know that I had a wonderful Christmas with my daughter even considering the situation. I hope that you all had a happy holiday with your children as well.

On a VERY ironic side note The job I had prior to the job that fired me for asking for Christmas off had told me when I left that they would be more then willing th rehire me should things not work out. I had planned on going back there to work until I could save enough to move ofr find something better...it is a plastics factory job and not really in my field but paid not too bad. Anyway on December 23rd we got hit here in Indiana with a major snow storm and had 19" of snow dropped on us. the weigh of this snow on the roof of the factory was enough to cause the roof the collapse and over $1 million dollars in damage was done to the equipment there. So as far as I know they are shut down at least till the beginning of the year....when it rains it pours.

Even with all that is happening I am not really upset about it, not like I used to get. I figure one way or another this stuff is gonna work itself out. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt too that by no later than June I will be livving in Denver much closer to my daughter. Man I can't wait for that!

Thanks again all for listening, Best wishes! and happy new year!

[c_alexander]

Well thought I would update you all on recent events in my quest to get to colorado to be with my daughter.  Starting from the beginning I lost my job several weeks back, a week before Christmas because I wanted to spend my parenting time with my daughter who flew in from Denver to Indiana to see me. It had been over 6 months since I had parenting time with her  and the first time I had her on Christmas Day in over 3 years so it was a very special occasion. I began a new job in November, but had notified the company of the time I needed off at the interview. They say no problem, until it came time to get the time off then suddenly all records of this agreement were lost and I was terminated because they didn't feel they had to work with me to get this time off. So I figured I would go back to work for the company I used to work for before them and amazingly the week of Christmas the roof caved in on the place and it will be February before they start production again.  So now I am stuck without a job, it took me over 3 months to find the last 2 jobs I had, and I have been unable to save anymore money for my move to Denver because I have had no income. No one is visiting my webpage anymore (my fault for not updating it recently),  and it seems like my efforts on making this thing happen are falling apart. I found out recently that my daughter will be starting year round school this summer which means that I will not get my 7 weeks with her this summer, but that I will have to go back to court AGAIN and make another visitation arrangement.  court will cost money, of which I have none and no hopes of finding any kind of job here in rural Indiana anytime soon, and not enough saved in my moving fund to risk heading out to Colorado where I might have a better chance of finding something and being with my daughter.

I have written every daytime talkshow, news media and done everything I can possibly think of to get some kind of help, but have gotten absolutely no where. No matter how hard I try, or what I do I am beginning to believe that I will NEVER be able to be near my daughter and I just emotionally and physically exhausted. I have fought tooth and nail since my divorce in 1997 to be a part of my daughters life, but evertything and everyone seems to be trying to keep me from her. I know I can't give up, but for once I wish something would go right. I am SO tired of fighting.

[olanna]

Do you have a credit card you could use to finance a move back to CO?  I think that is where I would start...

Best to you...

remember, tomorrow is another day...

[c_alexander]

No credit card, or credit at all for that matter. My credit was destoryed when I caught my wife cheating on me 6 months after I had purchased a video production company (ironically my business was video taping weddings). the company went down the tubes as you can imagine and I filed bankruptcy in 2002. Been trying to repair my credit ever since then. I had thought about trying to get a loan or something from banks, family, friends, whatever..no luck.

[MYSONSDAD]

Why is your daughter going to year round school? Is this by BM choice?

Don't give up, where there is a will, there is a way.

Everyone faces a down turn. And you have an incredibly good reason to keep fighting. If not for yourself, for your daughter. She's counting on you.

Your going to do it and get out there, just give yourself time...

"Children learn what they live"

[c_alexander]

My daughter is going to year round school because of the huge influx of children in the Denver area (people relocating). The school systems have had to turn to year round or "track" schooling in order to keep class sizes down and still be able to provide schooling to all the kids. As with most other things in my daughters life this decision was also without my say. It all stems from my ex being allowecd to move halfway across the freakin country.

I know I can't give up, I don't have a choice in the matter. I am just SO very very tired of fighting and not getting anywhere. I keep getting shafted in courts and by my ex wife, I can't seem to get the money I need saved, it's just one enormous headache after another. One hurdle after another after another.

I do honestly appreciate everyones efforts to help me keep going and trying to cheer me up. I will follow your advice and keep trudging on, but man I certainly do not envy those of you that have had to deal with this kind of mess longer then I have.

[olanna]

I've had two cheating spouses and have credit.  Sorry dude, but your credit is yours...has nothing to do with sex.

Do you still have some of that equipment? If you do, sell it.  There are many agencies all over the US called community action counsels, and they can spot you $500 for the move. You can also contact the red cross and the salvation for assistance if you are broke.

[MYSONSDAD]

Take it one day at a time, one step at a time.

Make a list of reachable goals you can accomplish now. Add goals for the future. Put them on paper if you have to. By reaching goals one at a time will give you hope to move forward.

Patience and persistence is how you will make it. In time. And when you do, you'll be glad you did. Sometimes it takes years, but the rewards are worth it.

"Children learn what they live"