Child support protest

[c_alexander]

Someone was mentioning earlier on some of the Yahoo groups about a Child support protest. I'm game for it. Considering I have been out of work and unable ot make my payments technically I have been protesting since November now that I think about it.

Viva La Resistance!

[kitten]

Will pays more than $1600.00/mo. CS and is barely getting by.  BM is remarried, moved the kids to Alaska and Will has to pay half of the plane tickets to see his kids for a week in March.  His half is $1400.00 that her attorney is demanding by March 1st or he won't get his visit.  Don't know what he's going to do.  Guaranteed that if he can't get the money, bm will tell the kids he does not love them or want them anymore and this is proof.  It just never ends.

[cinb85]

or at least lowered since you are out of work?

[c_alexander]

Well, considering I provided evidence to the court that they broke their own child support LAWS when then set up my child support payments back in 1997 and then in 2002 when asked to fix this error they would NOT make the correction retroactive, even when proper evidence of income from 1997 to 2002 was shown. They would rather me be over $15,000 behind in CS then obey the law and fix their mistake.

These people are ONLY interested in the money...any money they collect is a source of financing for them ( In Indiana the governement gets $8.00 in funding from the US government for every $1.00 they collect). Therefore it is in their best interests to collect as much as possible....bigger budget for them means bigger paychecks for them.

I say we ALL just simply STOP paying our child support. The states would be SO screwed if even half of us had the guts. If they want Deadbeats, hell I say lets teach them the meaning of Deadbeat huh?

[wendl]

Kitten, is it in the court order that if he fails to pay this atty then he looses visitation??? If so that is wrong, just wrong, actually a lot in your case is just wrong.

Hugs to you honey.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[dipper]

I feel for you.  My dh was very ill last year - he was paralyzed by the illness for about 10 days - hospitalized for 13.  He had no disability insurance.  He was out of work for six weeks.  During that time, we used my unemployment to pay insurance on he and yss.  We also bought school supplies for him.

We filed for reduction in CS - and of course, you had to wait for two months.................

My dh only got $188 behind as his support is not that high as he pays medical insurance and 75% copays.  He only missed two payments and half of another.  YSS was with us for three weeks during August.  BM didnt pay her rent for September - in court she stated it was because of dh not paying child support.  She was in fact, getting some support in September.  But doesnt this sound as if without that money she cannot afford her bills?  Of course her lawyer was trying to say that all dh wanted was to get out of cs....sounds as if all bm wants is the cs.............

[c_alexander]

Thanks to the state of IN breaking the law and setting my CS WAY too high I  am close to $15,000 behind. That is $3,000 past FELONY level here in IN. Now you tell me, in 5 years there is no way in cost well over $15,000 to raise a 3 year old. NO way!

[Fair_Rulings]

I'm here in Los Angeles California and would like to see a protest.  We are looking for a change in the family law situation here.  Let us know if you can help.
[email protected] Or [email protected]
Give us your information

[dipper]

While raising children is expensive, its amazing how it costs much more if the parent makes more.  I mean...if you made $1000 a month, then it may only take $150 child support to raise your child.  If you make $3000 a month, then somehow it takes $450 child support to raise your child.  The courts honestly dont care if the ncp has the money to live off of.  With dh it wouldnt have did him anygood to get a second job, she proved she would take him to court for more money.  A second job would limit his time with his son...and just boost her income, not his.  

My ex is way behind on support.   Now, he chooses to just see the kids whenever he feels like it and does not even take advantage of the court order.  And I really dont understand it because he and I do not fuss.  I dont even see him - his mother picks them up.  Whenever we do see each other, we get along fine and I have no anger toward him.  I do get upset because I feel he should see the kids more -and if he doesnt want to send money for cs - just buy the kids some clothes.  I would be willing to acknowledge that as cs.....But anyway, I did go to court last year to have the case transferred to the county I live in now.  My ex moved out of state, so its in their hands as far as cs.  When I went to court, I was surprised at how many guys were coming out and going straight to jail.  I heard some of what was said - and they didnt owe 1/5 of what my ex owes.  But, they didnt have jobs at the time, so to jail they went.  That really made me think as I told my dh - I would have a hard time sending my ex to jail as he is my girls dad......

I do believe in both parents being responsible, but I also have come to realize that many times the court is unfair.  

[c_alexander]

Don't get me wrong I KNOW there are fathers out there that no matter what happens just don't want a thing to do with their kids. Personally I think these guys should all be SHOT, but it's sadly not up to me. I FIRMLY believe if we could get the number of parents required to pay support reduced then the government could focus more ont he TRUE deadbeats instead of hassleing us dead broke and beat down dads. I got a call today from a friend of mine who has faced some of the same stuff with his divorce as I have. I have talked to him for a long time about the online community here and getting involved in the family law reform movement, but he was like most...beat down to teh pooint he was afraid to do anything. Something in him snapped today because he called me and talked to me for over an hour about how he wants to get involved and he is tired of being raped by the system. Bottom line is that there are a lot of people out there that have reached their limit as to how much BS they are going to take and are joining the bad wagon.

I saw on Celebrity Justice the other night a short clip about the guys in England who dressed up as superheros and climbed some building in protest. It was the England chapter of Fathers for Justice. It's coming to the point that it is going to take a group like this to DO outrageous stunts like this just to open the eyes of society to this injustice.

With the national divorce rate at 50-60% you would think that if we banded together we could get something done. WE are after alla majority of the population now thanks to no fault divorces.

[gr8Dad]

For many reasons, the least of which that the children will be suffering, because they CP will NOT say, "Well, Daddy is protesting, so you have to understand..."  CP will say, "That bastard trying to starve you...".

Also, the CP's have been saying for YEARS that men are deadbeats, and won't pay support, they will now have the numbers to back it up,a nd the laws will become harsher for it.

[TPK]

I think I'd rather pay my CS than to sit in a jail cell. I'll never be called a "deadbeat", not in this lifetime.

If someone is whining about paying CS, then maybe you should not have had children.

The laws are what they are...unfair, but you gotta SUCK IT UP and pay.

[c_alexander]

YOu know while I live with my parents and barley have enough money to get by, my ex wife and daughter are living in a $500,000 home. My daughter wants for nothing, and my child support is WAY more then she needs to live comfortably off of.

the thing you ALL have to understand about child support is that it does not effect the children as much as they want you to believe, but it DOES effect the states budget, especially if a group of people were BOLD enough to say " We are not going to pay this until we get equal rights with our kids!" Do you all think that ghandi or Martin Luther King Jr. didn't face some time in jail and persecution for what they did. What they did cost them their lives, but they made significant and amazing change. Thats what WE need to do, but until everyone realizes that, we are goign to go on getting screwed bythe system because they can, and we are jsut cattle for the slaughter..... forget that. I'M ONE MAD COW!

[kitten]

MMMMMOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[TPK]

>YOu know while I live with my parents and barley have enough
>money to get by, my ex wife and daughter are living in a
>$500,000 home. My daughter wants for nothing, and my child
>support is WAY more then she needs to live comfortably off of.


You may be paying more CS than what your child needs, but everybody's situation is different.  What if your wife was living in a homeless shelter with your child?. What if your wife or another CP was just barely getting by? The CS laws for each state don't allow for examination of living conditions for EACH child/CP.

CS is not just for food, clothing, toys, medical bills etc. It's for paying bills for the overhead on a house/apartment etc.  Being that your wife lives in a $500K house her overhead might be high, thus you're paying for some of that.

We all know the CS is  not ALL used on the child, that's just the way it is. I've seen some postings in here about a Mom worried about not being able to make the mortgage payment if NCP doesn't pony-up the CS.

I think maybe an idea would be to have state laws that allow for an "accounting" of what the CS is used for. That would probably clutter out the courtrooms across the USA with NCPs filing contempt suits everywhere if the money isn't spent to the nickel on what CS is paid out.
>
>
>the thing you ALL have to understand about child support is
>that it does not effect the children as much as they want you
>to believe, but it DOES effect the states budget, especially
>if a group of people were BOLD enough to say " We are not
>going to pay this until we get equal rights with our kids!" Do
>you all think that ghandi or Martin Luther King Jr. didn't
>face some time in jail and persecution for what they did. What
>they did cost them their lives, but they made significant and
>amazing change. Thats what WE need to do, but until everyone
>realizes that, we are goign to go on getting screwed bythe
>system because they can, and we are jsut cattle for the
>slaughter..... forget that. I'M ONE MAD COW!


I have read your postings about your saga, and I have sympathy for you. I think you need to get yourself to Colorado PRONTO no matter what it takes. Get to Co. and then go from there, right the wrongs you believe have been done against you.

My wife kept our 4 month old away from me for 4 months. She was hiding and I did EVERYTHING I could to find them, spared no expense. My hard work paid off and I dragged her into court and got my parenting time and she got a tongue lashing by the judge.

Make it happen, no matter what it takes.

Best of luck to you.

TPK
>
>

[c_alexander]

I am sorry TPK, but I do not agree with you on this point. They ONLY people who should ever have to pay chiold support are parents that do not want to have anything to do with their kids or are completely worthless. Any parent that is able and willing to be a real parent to their children should be awarded a 50-50 custody if possible and allowed to raise their child. Child support shouldn't be a paycheck, it should be the support you give your child when they are with you.

I am very firmly against this because the only thing we are accomplishing by paying support is making alot of people(like myslef) broke and that state governements and our ex's rich.

If my ex was living in a homeless shelter then she should not have custody of our daughter...period. She would lack the drive nessecary to make a living and provide for a child. In my case my ex wife decided to mooch of of richer men ( from what I have seen this is a more and more popular thing for some evil ex wives to do) rather then earn the money herself. Currently she only works part time while attending school and I foot the bill for it all along with her new man, and her other ex's (3 in total) who she has all gotten wealthier off of.

I think what makes me the sickest is the attitude of people that "thats jsut the way it is".  That is the way it is because you give inand don't fight for your rights.  Mothers who can't make the mortgage payment because of Cs? Gimme a break, if things are that tight then you are living beyond your means and you need to rethink your situation. Also in how many of these cases are the non-custodial parents able and willing to support their child in a 50-50 parenting time scenario?

I mean seriously, why should I pay my ex wife money to raise our daughter when I am here figting to be a part of my daughters life? That is ignorant.  Let me ask you ALL something, if you saw someone on WELFARE who simply did not work to their potential because they could count on that welfare check wouldn't it make you mad? To think that you money is going to someone who "chooses" to in essence be LAZY and not work for the money. Now why are we paying child support when there are a MAJORITY of parents out there willing and able to be a part of their kids lives and willing to fight and bend over backwards to be a parent? I am sorry I do not and will never agree with child support in MOST cases.

I am still going forward with my protest and I urge any and all of you willing to make a sacrifice for change to do the same. I have organized a small group here in Indiana and hope to get enough people to stop paying Child support as to cripple the states into hearing our demands. I am still reasearching it, but hope to offer proof that the governments are making alot of money off of us.

[DecentDad]

Chris,

Protesting child support in an act of civil disobedience should have some purpose.  If your purpose is to drive enough people to do it so that the state must concede on some level, that is your decision.  Whether or not it's successful will be seen in the future.

However, you should STRONGLY consider that your attitude and actions (i.e., or at least your stated intent today) will ELIMINATE any judge from having any sympathy on you with regards to seeing your daughter.

If you take the path of which you speak in these posts, you are kissing her goodbye.

If you want to view yourself as a martyr, again, that's your decision.  But martyrs often live painful, lonely lives.

And if your protesting doesn't quite work out as well as you believe... you'll also kiss goodbye to many of the people who to date have viewed you as a someone innocent victim of circumstance.

Choosing to break the law is an intentional decision.  The impact could be severe.

Have you written letters to your legislators?  Met with them?  Joined a PAC?

If you truly want to effect change, get 10,000 people to put their child support payments into funding a Political Action Committee.  Within just a few months, you'll have enough power (i.e., MONEY)  to begin to meet with legislators and potentially begin to have an impact on law.  You'll be able to contribute to candidates who will subsequently owe you favors.

THAT is the real game that changes law, like it or not.

So... rather than protest by refusing to pay child support, take what you've been ordered to pay and put it into a lobbying group that can help.

If parents can't pay such amount in the first place, then to be honest... this "protest" seems like an excuse just wrapped up in righteousness.

If you were in front of me, I'd slap you across the face and say... Dude, your daughter needs you.  Quit screwing around, quit setting yourself up for a horrible future, and just get to her.

Truly best wishes for you...

DD

[catherine]

parents that only want EOW?  Should they pay CS or not?

[c_alexander]

Do you REALLY think that ANY judge has ANY sympathy for me at the moment? Should it matter at all if my support is current or not? Do they even listen to WHY it is behind to begin with? Do THEY really care? The answer is a resounding NO, and if you beleive different you are living in a fantasy world.

The truth is the system and people in general are corrupt. Their motivations anymore revolve around winnign at any cost. Don't believe me, have ou turned on the TV lately? Can we say REALITY TV. This is our socitey now. People do not care for anyone but themselves..in general. The courts do not distribute justice, if they did more of us would share parenting instead of being forced into becoming strangers to our own flesh and blood. The family courts MAIN focus is $$$$$ plain and simple. By making us pay child support they help bring revenue to the state budget, which in turn means bigger paychecks for them. OPEN YOUR EYES! The system is corrupt!

"If you truly want to effect change, get 10,000 people to put their child support payments into funding a Political Action Committee. Within just a few months, you'll have enough power (i.e., MONEY) to begin to meet with legislators and potentially begin to have an impact on law. You'll be able to contribute to candidates who will subsequently owe you favors."

This seem like a good idea, BUT then that is playing by "their" rules, and unless you can play the game better then they can you're wasting your time. Instead you have to hit them where it hurts..in the wallet. If a protest were successful and the amountof "owed" child support doubled, it would shut down or signifcantly damage the system to the point that politicians would be FORCED to change the laws.

As for the rest of it, first of all it is all an idea right now. I think it would be an idea that would work far better and faster then anything anyone has mentioned. I for one wish to see this chang ASAP, for myself and the countless others in my position. Not jsut parents, but kids . These kids that are caught in the middle of all this. Not to mention the 16,000 to 18,000 people who DIE every year in suicides because of bad family law decisions. PEOPLE THAT IS 5-6 TIMES MORE THEN THE PEOPLE WHO DIED IN 9/11 ATTACKS.  WE freaking went to WAR for that BS!!!

[MYSONSDAD]

Friends,

The Augusta, GA, TV station WRDW is conducting an online survey about
the need for child support reform in Georgia. As of last night, the
results were 90/10 in favor of a change. Please go to their web site at
http://www.wrdw.com and vote in their survey, it's in the bottom right
corner of their main page. Let's get the message out!

Terry Pitts
Augusta FAPT Chapter

This was passed on to me, if we all stand together, we can make changes. Complaining between ourselves, will get us nowhere.


"Children learn what they live"

[TPK]

Chris, don't be bitter towards me just because I don't agree with your views. If I listen to you and not pay my CS, can I count on you to come bail me outta jail??

When I get into arrears above my head, will you help me out??


Do I agree with paying obscene CS amounts...NO!

Why do we pay these amounts??.......because "that's the way it is" like it or not.

You can sit here and scream til the cows come home, or you can get yourself to Colorado and start the process.

You gotta help yourself here, don't rely on strangers for donations for a move out West.

I don't know how you've gotten yourself $15K in arrears, but if you're still not working SOMEWHERE you're not trying that hard now are you?


Like I said earlier, I sympathize with you and your situation, I'm not piling on here.


TPK

[DecentDad]

"Growing up to be a beautiful young lady. My only wish is that I can be there to watch her grow up."


If that statement is true-- taken straight from your website-- you're heading down the wrong path.

If your "only wish" has changed, perhaps update your website that asks for donations to support your move to Colorado; because behind the scenes you're thinking about doing things that will have a severe negative impact on your future custodial time with your child.

Still have plenty of empathy for your situation, but just wondering where your allegiance is at the moment.

[c_alexander]

I am not bitter at anyone...if I come across that way I am sorry. I just don't think that I am getting me point across properly.

I am against CS because it has become a source of revenue for the government. This is a BAD thing because if they can recieve revenue for collecting supprot then it is in their best interests to order support in more and more cases.

In a majority of these cases a shared parenting or 50-50% custody situation would in fact BE BEST for the child. Most states have a it worded in their family law that they are fighting for the best interests of the child....yet they unfairly distribute parenting time and order child support. I challenge ANYONE to argue that this is in the best intersts of the child as the laws state, IF the both parents are willing and able to take care of this child.

How do you get $15k in arrears?
1. the state breaks it own child support laws and includes the entire income of your new business as your income when figuring your CS amount. In Indiana the law specifically states that a businesses expenses must be deducted from the income. This being a NEW business, anyone who knows anything about business knows that a majority of new businesses fail with in the first year or so.
2. the business falls into bankruptcy as a result of the divorce, the loss of your child, and the outrageous child support payments. My CS although small by some standards was my rent, electric and phone bill all put together ech month.
3. After 5 years of struggling to keep yourself alive through the bankruptcy, you manage to save enough money to go back to court and get the amoutns changed only the courts, after hearing evidence that they broke their own CS laws does not make any changes retroactive and instead leaves you $15k behind in CS. (bottom line, changing this retroactive would have taken a lot of money out of the states revenue, therefore it is not in their best interests to change this amount)
4. After gettign the amount changed, the tack on an arrears payment which brings the Cs amount back up to what is was BEFORE...what's the use of fighting? Everytime you enter a courtroom you only get screwed harder.

Thats how I got so far behind. It's not for lack of trying, it is a system that is stacked against you to begin with and I for one don't plan on sitting around and saying "thats the way it is" because "that is NOT the way it HAS to be". I am not bitter at you TPK or anyone for your viewpoint. I am aggrevated at the general attitude that most people have about the situation. So long as it is not their problem they don't care. If you to do to some of the judges what has been done to me and others ( my story is tame in comparison to most I have heard)  things would be different.

As for the donations, I still accept them, but I am selling the ribbosn now to help fund mey move. As for work, unless you live in rural Indiana you wouldn't have an understanding of what the job market here is like. Unemployement is as high as 12% or more as they close down factories and stores. You can get jobs, but are expected to work your butt off for minimum wage. McDonalds here which is usually ALWAYS hiring is not hiring. (For real!). About the only ting I have going right now is a temp agency, and the good ol'e boy factor. A guy I went to school with is the son of the owner of a local plastics plant. I have pulled every string I can to get an interview and I think it may have paid off. I hope to find out soemthing next week. My ribbons and the stuff I have been doing in the mean time have been ways to earn money while I couldn't find work. I have been doing odd jobs for neighbors and anything else I can think of to earn even a few bucks...All of which have gone into my moving fund.

HAHA, you'll all be so happy when I get out there to CO. I won't be such a pain in the rear then..haha.

Seriosuly though my goal is a simple one, I really want to not only get out there to be with my daughter, but I want to prevent something like this from every happeneing again not only to me, but to everyone. It is something that no "good" parent should EVER have to deal with.

[kitten]

>If my ex was living in a homeless shelter then she should not
>have custody of our daughter...period. She would lack the
>drive nessecary to make a living and provide for a child.

Absolutely.

>Currently she only works part time while attending school and
>I foot the bill for it all along with her new man, and her
>other ex's (3 in total) who she has all gotten wealthier off
>of.

Will paid for his ex's education so she could be a teacher.  She worked for 2 years until the 1st child was born.  Now the oldest is in school and the little ones NEED to be in Pre-School.  She has an earnings potential of about $50,000/yr. in this area.  Her argument to be allowed to move the children 3000 miles away from a Father she herself stated has always been a good father was that she could still be a stay at home mom with Will's CS payments and her new husbands income.  The court agreed.  Sickening.  The decision was made for HER best interests NOT the childrens!  It is never in their best interests to remove them from a loving, active parent!!!!!!   Will even offered to continue to pay her this rediculously high amount of support for 3 years until she could get stabilized back in her teaching career if she stayed in the area!  NOPE.  Sorry, you're just the Dad.  

[catherine]

.

[c_alexander]

I can't asnwer your question if you don't know what EOW is. Personally ANY parent that is willing and able to BE a parent to their children should NOT be made to pay support. In any and every case where a shared parenting plan can be entered into it should be. By willing and able I mean that :
1. Parents should live a "reasonable" distance from each other
2. Both parents should be able to put the best interests of the children involved first above and beyond their own needs
3. The parents should not be alcholic, drug users, homeless, child abusers or "worse"

In essence I am saying use your common sense. Kids should not be put into situations that are unsafe or not in their best interests.

As for where my loyalties lie, they lie in my daughters best interests, which I and many others believe were in fact NOT represented by the indiana court system. Judges who have taken oaths to uphold the laws and instead have decided to order child support and reduced parenting time in more and more custody cases to drive up the amount of child support collected by the state so the state can collect more money from the feds for their budget.

If you have specific questions about wat I am talking about, please feel free to contatc me at: [email protected]

[catherine]

a number of parents who are content with their Every Other Weekend (EOW) court ordered time and do not want joint physical custody.  They are more than happy being parents for 4 days a month and that's it.  In those cases, do you feel that they should be paying CS?