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Author Topic: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody  (Read 10037 times)

orgncwby

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Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« on: Feb 08, 2009, 12:48:11 PM »
I have a question,  I have a california order which states Joint legal with Physical Custody to petitioner.  I am the Petitioner. the father.  My daughter has lived with me for the last three years going to her mothers every other weekend.  Last weekend my ex decided to keep my daughter and was able to enroll my daughter in a new school in a different city.  I submited a copy of my divorce judgment to the school and they still alowed my ex to register my daughter.  How can this be?  I have since filed to move my divorce to Oregons jurisdiction.  I will then attempt to file a writ of assistance to get my daughter back into my home.  My ex wife is doing everything possible to alienate me from my child, my child is 12 by the way.  My ex wife has told my daughter I do not want her, that I have lied in court, my ex wife shows my daughter all our court documents.  The other half of this story is that I have our older son 15 and my ex wife has no interest in getting him.  She feels its ok to seperate the siblings.  Any info is greatly appreciated, I am building my case airtight as best I can.  I feel im an excellent father, although I have strict rules which my daughter does not approve, no makeup, no pajamas to school, bath everyday, bed by nine, take care of her own animals.  I just feel hurt all this is happening when I feel I am doing all I can to raise my children proper.  I attempt to promote a relationship with the children and their mother, although their mother does not talk to our son and would only talk to our daughter on her every other weekend visitations.  Thanks


MixedBag

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #1 on: Feb 08, 2009, 07:54:42 PM »
you must live near the state line.
 
Why not go retrieve the daughter from school with your order?
 
Did mom show a newer order to the school?

Davy

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #2 on: Feb 09, 2009, 12:57:13 AM »
orgncwby
 
Since you have a standing Ca. court order granting you physical custody you are the custodal parent and it is your right and obligation to determine where the child lives and attends school.  It would have been a legal necessity to notifiy you of any change and there would have had to been a substantial change of circumstances involving the child to warrant the change.
 
The other parent is in comptempt of the existing order for not returning the child and additionally "Interference with the custody of a child" or parental kidnapping.  These matters are considered to be of a serious nature (even criminal) in every state. 
 
If the child has resided in Ca. then the State statues governing these matters are known as the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act (UCCJA or EA...Enforcement Act).  The Federal statues are known as the Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act (PKPA.). 
 
Moreover, if you reside in Ca. and  submit any legal documents to the Oregon jurisdiction that can be enough for the Oregon courts to take jurisdiction over all matters (custody, support,etc) concerning the child even given the illegal acts of the other parent.
 
Needless to say, the school has no authority whatsoever in this matter and you don't have to 'ask'...'just tell'.
 
You might consider finding and printing the custodial interefence statues for Ca. (and or Orgn) that is documented in the articles section on this site .  Present to law enforcement (ie sherriff) in Oregon along with existing custody order and the child should be immediately returned to the custodial parent as ORDERED by the court.  The Oregon authorties are legally bound (UCCJA and PKPA) to respect and accept the Ca. ORDER.   

orgncwby

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #3 on: Feb 09, 2009, 08:50:35 AM »
NO newer order.  She is just a really good talker I guess.  I was at the school Thursday morning telling them the school they  did not have my permission to enroll my daughter.  I thought the vice principal and I were on the same page but I guess not.  I am going in today to try to get my daughter back.  Thanks for the info.

orgncwby

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #4 on: Feb 09, 2009, 08:55:59 AM »
Oh and both the Ex and I live in Oregon, have for almost eight years now.  Never realized I needed to move the  Divorce Order to Oregon just for inforcement.


orgncwby

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #5 on: Feb 10, 2009, 11:46:52 AM »
Thank you very much davy,  I went to the superintendant of the school where my ex had enrolled my daughter armed with divorce judgement and the statues, police where called, school admited wrong and my ex was warned about custodial interference.  Thank you again.

MixedBag

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #6 on: Feb 10, 2009, 04:56:30 PM »
and your daughter went home with you, right?

Davy

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #7 on: Feb 11, 2009, 12:24:35 PM »
I would think the asumption is that the daughter went home with daddy.  The custodial interference statues are CRIMINAL statues that the rule of law enforcement can act upon.  Compare to CIVIL custody orders that often are NOT enforced.
 
One should note that the mother was 'warned' but I hope there was a lesson learned..  Had things been reversed,  daddy would have likely been cuffed and right now would likely be counciling Buzz in some filthy holding tank.
 
As I recall, the Federal Office of Juvenile Justice, assisted by and partially funded by the American Bar Assoc., was able to implement these statues in most states after interviewing a large population of "fatherless" delinquents. (ie access denial) 
 
Seems to me that Orgncwby schooled everybody to the benefit of his daughter !!   

orgncwby

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #8 on: Feb 11, 2009, 07:05:28 PM »
Yes I did get my daughter back,  after four hours, the school having to notify DHS to make sure no abuse cases were on me, an officer checking with DHS and the district attorney.  which is funny,   because you are right,  if it had been the mother I know they would have said oh ok sorry,  but that is the breaks right?  same reason it has taken two and a half years for them to establish child support.  I was the bad guy up until the ex told my daughter " I have to let him take you because you wouldnt press charges" then of course everyone finally believed me. 
 
 
 
 

Beatupdad

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #9 on: Mar 21, 2009, 10:31:16 AM »
OK she took your kid to another state and enrolled the child in school? You have a court order, now my question is and I may be wrong but if I had done that in this state(south carolina) I would have been hauled off for contempt and probably kidknapping charges because I went across the state lines knowing that there was a court order..and here even if there wasnt a court order just her saying I left without her consent woulda surely landed me in the joint..
 Is that how it works?
Ron

orgncwby

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #10 on: Apr 13, 2009, 11:13:13 AM »
Just an update, she was hauled off to jail, only after she did it two vistations in a row. She is now facing a felony 2 custodial interference.  She had emailed me her intentions so from what I hear from the DA its an open and shut case.  She is now facing five years in prison for it, which seems pretty severe to me but I guess you make your bed and you have to lie in it. 
The funny thing is it took three offenses and the officer that finally wanted to put his neck out to make it happen.  As we all know if this had been the other way around, even though they say it wouldnt, I would have been put into jail the very first time I did anything stupid such as this. 
Equality, isnt it great.

Davy

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #11 on: Apr 14, 2009, 12:08:18 PM »
Congrats cwby for your fortitude and ability to protect your daughter.  And to your LE community for stomping out dual standards and joining in the effort to protect children.  I regret, probably like you, that the mother refused to respond to the many chances and warnings to make corrections in her behavior.  The arrest and hopeful conviction is a neccessity to call a halt to the dysfunction.   Ha !  I guess this gives new meaning to supervised visitation.
 
Do you have an opinion of the impact of this situation on your daughter's emotional well-being and way of life.  In my opinion and experience it will be greatly rewarding to the child.  I suspect others would like to know what could have been.  Maybe we should all move to Oregon !!!
 
I'm wondering if you know about the actual arrest if she was thrown to the ground or on the trunk of a car and manhandled or stuffed into the back of a cruiser.  Then harrassed, intimidated and provoked all the way and inside the jail.  Is it different for mom than it is for dad ?  I don't think anybody knows because it has never happened before.
 
I applaud ya'll.
 
 
Just FYI.  About 2 years ago another poster was trying to invoke these criminal statues and contacted THE ILL-and-NOISE Attorney General (Lisa Madigan) and was told "we don't enforce these laws" (against women of course).  In other words, congress pass laws and corrupt elected officials pick and choose to who the laws apply.   

shaden3

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #12 on: Apr 15, 2009, 03:15:49 PM »
Although you didn't hit on this directly, I am wondering if your daughter was asking mom to allow her to move in with her?
 
It would seem that your daughter has some issues that she would like to work out with you. You don't need to change all your rules. However, as young girls become women, we need to re-evaluate our parenting by bringing them into creating the home guidelines. By defining what is important to you (e.g., her safety, her education, respect, responsibility etc.) and finding out what is important to her (e.g., freedom, friends, etc.), you can brainstorm some parameters together.
 
In this way, she's much more likely to stick around, appreciate being brought into the decision-making, and enjoy the improved relationship and communication with her dad.
Thou shalt not be a perpetrator. Thou shalt not be a victim. Above all, thou shalt not be a bystander.

Davy

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #13 on: Apr 16, 2009, 07:10:23 PM »
Please read the original post.  Orgncwby is an excellent parent and even a better father.

shaden3

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #14 on: Apr 17, 2009, 07:58:27 AM »
Original post reads:
 
"I feel im an excellent father, although I have strict rules which my daughter does not approve, no makeup, no pajamas to school, bath everyday, bed by nine, take care of her own animals."
 
It's okay to ask parents to open their minds and re-evaluate household rules as a child develops and grows. This flexibility is important to create ongoing openness, honesty and respect in relationships.
 
Please know that it doesn't, in any way, mean that dad isn't a great dad and/or that he has to change his values to accomodate daughter's dislike of the rules. As parents, our job is to set those guidelines, role model and create family values.
 
It does mean, however, that mutual consideration is the first road to motivating another party to hearing our concerns, as well. It's okay to be introspective, and absolutely no disrespect nor judgment was meant regarding dad's first post.
 
It's also okay to brainstorm with our children, admit we can all do better, apologize when it's appropriate, and command respect as a parent.
Thou shalt not be a perpetrator. Thou shalt not be a victim. Above all, thou shalt not be a bystander.

tigger

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #15 on: Apr 17, 2009, 08:38:30 AM »
I agree, he is an excellent father.  Most schools have dress codes banning pj's anyway.  And even if they don't, I wouldn't want a bunch of boys seeing my daughter in clothes intended for bed time.  Shoot, I don't want a bunch of girls seeing my boys (ages 20 and 15) in that attire either!

As for no make-up, perhaps a bit of eye make up only.  Chances are good, her complexion makes anything else unnecessary.  I remember FINALLY being allowed to wear make-up when I was 12 years and 4 months old.  (Christmas, it was in my stocking).  Felt like I was FINALLY being recognized as a youth instead of a child.  Small victory.  If she looks like she's wearing too much, have her eyes checked.  I would put on too much make up and it turned out it was simply because I couldn't see the difference in the mirror because my vision was bad.  Also, take her to a make up counter and have the attendant put it on her (conservatively) so she knows how to do it.  This is all of course, when you determine the right time is.

As for the other stuff, it's typical teen stuff.  My 15 year old doesn't like that I'm holding him more and more accountable for his animals.  I feed them when he's at his dad's and do whatever they need, of course, but if he's in bed and remembers that the fish need to be fed, he needs to get up and do it.
The wonderful thing about tiggers is I'm the only one!

Davy

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #16 on: Apr 17, 2009, 02:06:26 PM »
Zing !!!!!

orgncwby

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #17 on: Apr 17, 2009, 10:44:01 PM »
Thank you all!!!  This whole situation has opened my eyes up more as well.  I have opened up to allow a few more things to let my little girl grow up.  I have allowed eye shadow and a few other things. I have asked her more of her opinions on things.  Letting her do her own mistakes.  I have allowed her to set her own standards that I can live with, that way she can only be upset with herself for going outside those standards.  She is upset with me because her mother keeps telling her that the mother is going to prison for five years, and that is is all I fault.  I strictly state that I had no decision in the arrest and or conviction of her mother I was mearly asking for my daughter to be returned to me.  I am upset that the mother did not abide by the law and decided to act of her own and is know facing her consequences.
I know that like my son my daughter will hopefully see that I am just doing what is best for them.  I could see where it would be very hard to be put in the middle of something such as this, being told my one parent about all the "issues" with the other parent and the other parent never discussing anything about the situation and loving and trusting both parents.  It is very tough to listen to some of the things the ex tells my daughter.

Davy, ex was not thrown to ground, harrased or anything. the officers quietly cuffed ex and put ex in car.  I do assume ex said or did something on way to or during processing to officers because a three hour lockup wound up being a three day lockup,  Ex informed me "no one will listen to her side" that ex was only going to keep daughter for an extra day.  but the emails ex sent me stated ex would not return daughter until ex and I agreed on a new parenting plan.  That was her mistake.  Now she is facing a felony 2 with 3 to 5 years. 

Shaden3,  Daughter has asked ex to live with her yes.  Daughter has asked me to allow her to live with ex.  I have stated no and reasons being that 1.  Mother has no stable home, Fifth house in three years, 2. mother has no job. 3. mother does not make sure daughter makes it to school, does not attend school functions, etc.  I have stated if mother could provide a stable safe home I would have no problem reevaluating our parenting arrangement.

I do have to say that I have spent over 44k in legal fees over all this in the last three years and would do it all over again if I had to.  (although a new truck sure sounds nice).  The things we do for our kids. 

tigger

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #18 on: Apr 18, 2009, 06:52:47 AM »
You might want to consider counseling for your daughter.  A neutral 3rd party can help her sort through all the emotions and inappropriate conversations.  Help her realize that her trust in you is not misplaced or puts her in a vulnerable position.
The wonderful thing about tiggers is I'm the only one!

shaden3

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Re: Mother kept daughter claiming we both have custody
« Reply #19 on: Apr 18, 2009, 08:17:24 AM »
orgncwby:
You're doing excellent work with your daughter. Excellent.
 
One way of talking to our children when there are criminal charges, jail time, etc., is to explain that the courts - not the parents at this point - have taken over the decision-making. Since the courts (we don't want to scare our children away permanently from looking to the judicial system for remedies) are mandated to make decisions that protect minors, this is the path they've chosen for mom. It will be clear to your daughter that no one is intentionally trying to cause harm or shake her world to where she feels unsafe, but that adults need to take responsiblity and face consequences if they go outside court orders.
 
It's good to let her air her stuff without fear of guilt, punishment, or of being corrected. It's important to let her know that how she feels is normal, and that you understand that she's very sad. You don't need to take or deny responsibility. "You're really upset about this, I can see that. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. I'll do whatever I can to protect you and be a good parent."
 
Kids want to love the people they love. That simple. They should be allowed to do that without dealing with adult problems. When one parent makes that difficult and/or impossible, then the other parent will have to do double duty.
 
Your openness in listening to what others have to say is very impressive. Keep on keeping on, dad. I agree that (a good - and do shop around) therapist can help her with the objective support and guidance she may need during these difficult times.
 
Good luck, keep it up.
 
 
Thou shalt not be a perpetrator. Thou shalt not be a victim. Above all, thou shalt not be a bystander.

 

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