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Author Topic: PAS? Anyone Else?  (Read 20652 times)

jadig52

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PAS? Anyone Else?
« on: Oct 03, 2009, 11:38:53 AM »
Please keep in mind, as you read, I have been seperated since September of '03 and legally divorced as of March '06. I currently live 3 blocks from my Ex, am an every other weekend Dad, and current on my child support.

I have given my Ex plenty of space because of her mental condition(she is clinically depressed and was when we married). It all started when my daughter told me she was in a play(she's very shy) and I wanted to go see her. I was very excited. I told my daughter to make sure she tells me the dates. Some time goes by and I ask her about it. She says the play already happened. My daughter told me that her Mom said that if I went, then she(my Ex) couldn't because she can't deal with me. I then proceeded to tell my Ex that I will do my own homework now and that she doesn't have the convenience anymore of going to extra curricular activities without me being there.

Any suggestions? I've been researching Parental Alienation Syndrome(PAS), but that doesn't seem to hold up in court. I just want to see my kids as much as possible and she won't let me.

This is email correspondance. She won't talk to me on the phone.
From ExWife-09/07/2009 ~ Games start this weekend. I do not have (Son)'s schedule yet but his game will be on Saturday. (Daughter)'s game is Sunday 12:30pm at 152nd fields. I will email you a full schedual when I get (Son)'s which should be tomorrow night.

(That day, I did my own homework and sent her FULL schedules of both the kids' soccer games. It used to be okay that she only sent the schedule of games for my weekends. I told her that would not be okay anymore.)


From ExWife-09/08/2009
~ Why are you sending me this? (Son) told you I would have them both by tonight. As a reminder my weekends are mine and I will not bring them if you start showing up.


From Me-09/09/2009
~ Bring them where? To their soccer games?


Ex-09/008/2009
~ yes


Me-09/09/2009
~ Why? That's ridiculous. We don't have to talk to each other. We don't even have to look at each other. If you still won't take them, will you then allow me to take them?


Ex-09/08/2009
~ Look, I'm not trying to be a bitch or argue, I just cannot relax and enjoy my time with the kids with you around. As I've said I hope this isn't always the case, you are the one that has made this difficult for me.The
parenting plan
is clear that we decide what they do and who they do it with while they are in our care. This has worked for several years even though I have paid for their registration, uniforms and taken them to all of their practices. Please don't try to make me the bad guy and please for once try to respect my feelings.


Me-09/08/2009
~ I am not trying to be difficult and/or a jerk. Here is what I am doing. This is an excerpt from an email I sent to you back in April:
I don't want to fight. All I am doing is vowing to honestly try to not miss any more extra curricular and/or educational activities our children are involved with. You can either help me with that, or I will do my own homework.

I'm sorry, but, I am sticking to it and just doing my homework. I believe that (Daughter) is starting to understand what it is that's going on. I have told her that it is discouraging that she can't play with friends that she has made while staying with me that live only minutes away(from you). I also told her that I look forward to meeting (Daughter's Friend's)'s parents here in the near future so that they can play whenever they want. It's (Daughter)'s friends first, not ours.
It's also my responsibility to be supportive of the kids' choices(sports, education, dancing, singing, musical instrument, MMA, ballet, horseback riding, etcetera...)whenever I can and I haven't been doing that.


Ex-09/10/2009 ~

We have stuck with the parenting plan for the last 6yrs and it works. I will go to their games on my weekends and you on yours, we will not intrude on the others time. In the future if you would like to support the kids
extra curricular activities
you are more than welcome to pay for them to be on a team (around $80 each), their uniforms (around $35 each) and take them to some practices.
 

 

Me-09/11/2009
~ I'm done excluding myself. As far as I know, I have the right to their school performances, athletic performances, etc. Section 6-2. If there is anything that legally excludes me from such public appearances, let me know what that is. I'm not doing this to make you miserable. I'm doing this to take the misery out of my life. I'm also not taking into consideration how this makes you feel. It's been six years, and if my presence still has an affect on you , not my problem any more. Like I said, I will do my own homework now (6.2 and 6.5).
This is my parental duty. You can either choose to let it ruin the next eight years of your life, hating me even more, OR you can just accept it as fact.

6.2
~ Both parents shall keep themselves advised of significant school, athletic, cultural and social events in which the children participate. Each parent shall provide the other, promptly upon request with significant information...

6.5
~ the parents shall attempt to cooperate and coordinate such acts of consent or permission.



EX-09/11/2009
~6.2 ~ I know this because it is something that I had put in, doesn't apply. I have always provided you with the schedules for your weekends. Yes you can keep yourself advised, obviously after 6yrs your taking advantage of this but it says nothing about your right to show up.
6.5
~ Again, doesn't apply. This says nothing of your rights to intrude on my weekend. It states only that I should "attempt to cooperate".
Now if you look a couple pages before under "DECISION MAKING"
4.1 states "Each parent shall make decisions regarding the day-to-day care and control of each child while the children are residing with that parent".
This does apply and is very clear. I have the law on my side here.
Let it go, feel lucky that you have been able to enjoy all these years of watching your kids without the worry of paying for everything and 5 nights of practices or even better 2 nights with the kids at different ends of town practicing at about the same time. You talk about the kids feelings? They have been fine with the way it has been going, you starting all of this (going against the parenting plan) is putting them in a bad position.

There is nothing more to be said, again the parenting plan is very clear, the law is on my side. If you choose to respond your email will go straight to the trash bin, I'm done. If you should decide to continue the emails I will do as I have in the past and block you.


Ex-02/18/2009
~ I'm hoping you will allow me to enjoy the kids games during my time alone. After all I am not stopping you from any other extra curricular activities including school sports. I realize you do not understand how I feel and possibly think I'm doing this out of spite. This is not true, I am simply unable to mentally and physically be that near you at this stage, believe it or not. I have talked with the kids and they understand my feelings and that it is me not you. It would be a shame for them to have to miss half of their games. It would be nice to know what your plans are.

~End of emails~ 
Me-
On September 19, 2009, I went to attend the soccer game of my 15 year old son. As I was approaching the field, I visually made contact with his mother, and my daughter, sitting at her feet. When (Ex) saw me, she motioned to (Son)(who was on the field playing goalie), bent over as to speak to (Daughter), who then stood up and both started walking away. I had brought with me (Daughter)'s soccer ball as she had left it at my house the weekend before. I called (Daughter) over to me and (Ex) kept walking away. I asked (Daughter) where she was going as I handed her soccer ball to her. She said "thanks" and then responded to my question with, "to the car."
"Are you leaving?" I asked. "And what about (Son)?"
"He has to come to the car at halftime." (Daughter) explained.
Halftime came and (Son) stayed at the field. As the second half started, (Son) was still at the field. I then noticed minutes later, that (Son) and (Daughter) were walking away from the field and toward the parking lot. I ran up to (Son)and asked, "Does the coach know you are leaving?"
"I don't think so." was (Son)'s reply.
I told (Son)i that he needed to tell the coach he was leaving and why he was leaving. I told (Son) he didn't have to leave. I asked him if he wanted to play in his came, to which his reply was, "I don't know." I then asked (Son) if it was my fault that he had to leave his game. (Son) told me yes. I then told (Son), "I came to the game to support you."
(Son) then told his coach, "I have to leave because my Dad came to the game." To which his coach replied, "That's strange."
 
On September 20 , 2009, I went to (Daughter)'s scheduled soccer game. She is 10 years old. When I arrived, I did not see (Daughter) on the field or on the sidelines. I approached her coach and asked if (Daughter) was here. He said no. I asked coach if she had called in regards to her absence. He looked at his phone and said, "No."

The next weekend, I spoke with the kids and sent an email to their mother a couple of days later:

So, I have discussed three(3) options with the kids regarding their soccer games on my non-weekends. They are as follows:
1.) You can bring them to their games and I will stay at the opposite end of the field and not come in contact with you(which was always the plan).
2.) You can bring them to their games, go home(or wait in your car), and pick them up after their games.
or,
3.) I will pick them up, take them to their games, and bring them back to your house after their games.

Both (Son) and (Daughter), after talking with them, have a desire to play in every game. Of the three options, I'm sure that you can agree to one of them. Maybe you can agree to a particular one of them depending on the location of their games. I will do any of the three, at any given time, at any given location, on any given Saturday and Sunday. Please, at least, agree to one of them so that they can play soccer.

Her response:
Is this a joke??
Are you giving me options for what I can do with the kids on my weekends?
Of course you can agree with any of the options, they are all yours.
It seems like you are trying to tell me how I should feel, it's not going to happen. I told you I couldn't do it and what would happen. You didn't care about anybody's feelings but your own, YOU have ruined this for them. If you need to talk to the kids about it you should ask them as I have if the schedule was okay before you started this.
Your right, the kids do want to play in all of their games, they also want me to be able to watch them play...and enjoy myself.
I cannot and will not do this anymore. The only side you seem to see is your own. As soon as I send this I will be blocking your emails once again. If there is an emergency with the kids text me, otherwise we have nothing to talk about.

To which I replied and have not heard back:
Are you giving me options for what I can do with the kids on my weekends? I am asking for you to agree to one of the options, that's all. Obviously you do not want to do that.


You didn't care about anybody's feelings but your own, YOU have ruined this for them.
I told you I couldn't do it. Yes, YOU can't do it, but the kids can. Regardless of my feelings or your feelings, it's how the kids feel. Your right, the kids do want to play in all of their games. Then why don't you let them play? It's all for the kids, right?

Also, I did not say they had practices across town this year, I was making reference to past years.
Okay, my fault. I thought that you were trying to make me feel bad about the stress of traveling. I read into it the wrong way. I'm sorry.


For the past six years, I have let my feelings get in the way of how I should be as a divorced father. I have let the feelings that you have for me influence the way I conduct myself. Your feelings of hate you have for me has influenced the way you conduct yourself when I am in your presence. You have always said that whatever you do, it's all for the kids. Can you really say this time, that what you are doing, is for the kids? No, I believe that it is for yourself. And you need someone to blame, other than yourself.
The kids want to play. Please let them play. I just want the kids to remember that Dad came to every game that he could. And I told you before, I am not going to let your feelings get in the way
.


MixedBag

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Re: PAS? Anyone Else?
« Reply #1 on: Oct 03, 2009, 12:14:45 PM »
sometimes, you feel like you're talking to a brick wall huh???
 
you got the right idea and in the LONG RUN, this will help you and the kids.
 
Be careful about getting into a letter war or an e-mail war with her.  K?

ocean

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Re: PAS? Anyone Else?
« Reply #2 on: Oct 03, 2009, 12:27:22 PM »
Your EX is totally wrong... File in family court that "both parents be allowed to all school events and outside activities that the children participate in. AND that neither parent can pull them from the field/activity if the other parent shows up."
You have EVERY right to be there. Keep doing it, in fact the next time, I would bring a video camera and video her pulling the kid off the field. How ridicules.

Does your court order state you split activities? If it doesnt, then that has nothing to do with it.

First you can try a certified letter, with her signature stating,
Ex,
I have received kids schedules and will be attending their activities. The support from both their parents is important even if we are no longer together. No where is our papers does it state that we are both not allowed to be at their events. The children have expressed their desire for both of us to be there. As I said before, you do not have control on who goes to their activities and I welcome you to be there on "my" weekends so they children know we are adults and can handle it. It has been 6 years and their activities are for them, not you. If you pull them off the field again, I will be forced to have the courts intervene and I will be asking for lawyer fees.
you

Her response will be to pull them off the team on her weekends.... in which case, see if the coach will allow them to play on your weekends. If it is competitive, file in court. She will look like a fool saying "he cant go, I cant handle it".

jadig52

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Re: PAS? Anyone Else?
« Reply #3 on: Oct 03, 2009, 12:59:48 PM »
Mixed~I know... hate conversing through emails. The majority of the time she takes it as hostile. She cannot hear the sincerity in my voice.

Ocean~I will do that next, send a certified letter. I have also spoken with both my kids' coaches and they know the situation their mother is putting them in. Both coaches also have my telephone number and email address. I have not missed a game yet that has been on my time. This weekend I will see what happens. I am about tp leave now and head to the soccer field where my boy is (supposed) to be playing. And I will talk with the coach if he is not there to see if his mother did the responsible thing and called to notify him of his absense.

My daughters game is tomorrow and I will do the same thing. I get to see my kids on average, 4 times a month and I want to instill responsibility. But how can I do that with an irresponsible mother? Thank you...

jadig52

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Re: PAS? Anyone Else?
« Reply #4 on: Oct 03, 2009, 01:52:49 PM »
Nope...wasn't there and coach had not received word via phone call or email that he would not be there. Coach also notified me that my son has not gone to practices either.
Since I live three blocks away, I decided to drive by their mother's house. Was that a no-no? Anyway, the car was not there.


MixedBag

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Re: PAS? Anyone Else?
« Reply #5 on: Oct 03, 2009, 03:24:57 PM »
You have a Personal Message.

MomofTwo

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Re: PAS? Anyone Else?
« Reply #6 on: Oct 03, 2009, 05:14:44 PM »
While I agree Mom is not right for pulling them from a game, her actions speak very loudly that she is extremely uncomfortable with your presence. Does not appear to be her doing this out of spite, but out of true discomfort with your presence.  Is there more to that??
 
Additionally, while I disagree it was wrong for her to pull them or not send them, you were wrong for telling your son he did not have to leave.  Her weekend, her decision what to do with them, which is also why it was wrong for you to send her options for how to handle their games on her weekends. You had no business doing that.
 
 

ocean

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Re: PAS? Anyone Else?
« Reply #7 on: Oct 03, 2009, 06:59:32 PM »
If the child has an activity BOTH parents under the law are allowed to be there (plus it is a public place). If mom is bringing them to the games, then he is allowed to be there regardless of whose weekend. Seems like mom decided she is no longer bringing them to their activities because she cant handle it and that is not right. It has been 6 years, if mom needs therapy or medication to be able to function across a soccer field then she needs to do that and let her childrens father enjoy all their activities. What is going to happen when it is HS graduation? Is she not going to allow him to be there if it is her weekend? Not her choice and she will be told that if this goes to court or goes to any lawyer with half a brain.

Since she is no longer bringing them, then keep bringing them on your weekends if the coaches will allow them to play and offer to take them the practices yourself until your court date. See if you can get the coach to say what happened in writing on that game and the games and practices since that game for you.
Good luck!

jadig52

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Re: PAS? Anyone Else?
« Reply #8 on: Oct 03, 2009, 08:07:08 PM »
Ocean~ Thank you for that. And I did just exactly that when I went to his game. I apologized to the coach for him not being there and said that I hope he has some playing time next week, because he WILL be there.

Oh My God.. I am so at wits end with my ex. I have researched PAS and from what I can tell, she(my ex) is an 'obsessive alienator'. And I want results immediatly. I know that that is impossible...never mind...AAAAAaaahhhhh...

Thank you all for your input, keep it coming!

John

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Re: PAS? Anyone Else?
« Reply #9 on: Oct 07, 2009, 10:55:41 AM »
Your ex is completely putting herself before the kids and that really makes me sad.  What she is doing is not right at all.
 
However, I think you need to look at yourself as well.  YOU are currently doing the same thing by showing up, knowing that means the kids will not get to participate in the game.  Should you be allowed to be there? Of course.  But I think you need to back off, send her a text saying that FOR NOW you will not attend the games on "her" time, but that you WILL be requesting a modification through the courts because you feel that BOTH of you should be able to attend ANY AND ALL of the kids' events.
 
Then you should file a modification with the courts, and maybe request some additional mental health evaluations for her?  She's obviously not getting the help she needs.

 

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