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Author Topic: What Would You Do?  (Read 1533 times)


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What Would You Do?
« on: Jun 05, 2004, 04:22:03 PM »
Background information:  Birth Mom has primary custody in Texas, Birth Father is in Arizona.  Currently taking her to court in Arizona (for over a year now) for child custody because of 50 police reports on domestic violence and child abuse in 3 years.  Court is currently set up to interview the 3 children sometime this summer.

Problem:  Oldest child (will be 17 in July) broke his leg and doesn't want to come to summer visitation.  Middle son also refuses to visit the court ordered 6 weeks as he wants to blow off illegal fireworks for the 4th of July.  Birth Mom refuses to send sons because they don't want to go, and refuses to send the 8 year old daughter because she doesn't want to separate the sibilings.

Possible Soultions:  (1)  The Pro-Active Solution.  Since the lawyer already filed documentation with Birth Mom and her lawyer on visitation, Birth Father has right to take children on the set date of the documentation.  Birth Father can fly down to Texas, hope to find his children, and bring them back to Arizona for court ordered visitation.  Birth Father is worried that his children will be hostile if he takes this action and feels that he will have no backing of law enforcement in Texas, even though he has documentation of the court order.

(2)  The Passive Solution.  Birth Father waits until court ordered visitation day is past, then files contempt on Birth Mother.  Birth Father doesn't get to see his children and his children will be hostile because he filed against their mother.

Birth Father pays full child support, plus any extras the children require.  Birth Mom has been deemed by court professional as praticing Parential Annialiation Syndrome (sp?).

What would you do?


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RE: I couldn't resist....
« Reply #1 on: Jun 05, 2004, 05:49:23 PM »
You mean Parental Alienation. I couldn't help but smile because it looked like you wrote "annhilation" (sp). A lot of CP's would love to "annhilate" the NCP from the child's life, so that spelling was kinda fitting.  :-)

I'll let someone else offer more constructive advice.


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RE: What Would You Do?
« Reply #2 on: Jun 05, 2004, 08:33:41 PM »
Because of the medical issue, that will need to be addressed during your custody period coupled with the childs age I would agree that the oldest one going for the parenting time may be a hardship for all.
As for the other 2, my suggestion would be face the possible hostility and get the children for your court ordered parenting time. Most children will relax after a short time even when angry at first.
As i recall talking to some Texans who post here, they have a law that says that law enforcement can choose wether or not they want to intervene. I think having the plane tickets in hand and show the distance you came may sway them but am not certain.
Hopefully someone experienced with Texas enforcement of court orders can help you on that one.
Remember if you do not get help, and the children are not made to go withyou, you still have the contempt available and most states now have some form of legislation regarding recouping monies lost attempting to enforce custody periods.
If I get a chance I will look to see if Az does or not and post it here.

Good Luck


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RE: What Would You Do?
« Reply #3 on: Jun 07, 2004, 12:21:00 AM »
In wash state Its the parents responsibility to have the children ready for the visits , And ensure that they go , Reguardless of what the children say, It came out In the revised wash law books within the last year , I don't know if it was from a supreme case or not , wich is then case law for all states .  Heres my deal On the parental alienation crap . The mom in my case did it to . I dragged my three year old away sreaming and kicking many times , When She saw that I would take him reguardless , She eventually gave up , I suggest the same for your situation , I would also show up with a Video camera in hand , That seems to put a cooler on the alienation crap , The only mistake I made with the camera was , My son was screaming that he did not want to go . I shut off the camera , Because I thought at that point it would not do me any good to tape. Well Once we got down the road a bit , He yelled Mommy say's you are going to hurt Me !!! I wish I would have taped that . Just remmember , You are the one that will be showing what you want on the tape , Keep filming , And she will start to behave , The kids seem to have problems any way , Don't think this is totaly Alienation , Some of it is just that they have a little trouble at the transfers and then the sicko's take advantage of it . If You don't pick up the kids , She will learn to do it again , and you will be a pawn of the game , Secondly the sicko's are clearly trying to push this to the level of major catastrophy , Like cause a big scene at the transfer , and maybe an altrication , Don't fall for this . Here;s what I would do , Tell her you will be there with a video camera , And that it is her responsibility to promote a relationship , Or this would be a bad faith effort on her part , And You will have a viseo camera there to document her cooperation . If You have to drag the kids away screaming , They will get better when they find that they are away from the sick mother , My son did exactly that . Soon as we got around the block he was fine , I would also just have Candy or take him to ice cream right away , There's nothing wrong with that , You just have to get them to get over the initial stage as quick as possible , If they start out with w bunch of pre programmed sicko crap from mom , then , Do what I do , [Advised from Two Good psychologists ) Don't really talk to them about it , Just say something like , " well I know mommy say's that and she thinks that stuff But I love you and you  are my favorite " DON'T get into the bs with them or get pissed about this crap in front of the kids , My self and many people I know, Have had this similar expierience , It seems to make it worse when you are mad at the other parent and express that too the kids . TRUST ME , I see A huge change In  What My son repeats from his mother when I keep it healthy on My end , I tell him , I like his Mom and new boy friend etc , And I see how My son is swaying because his mom talks crap about Me , He is swaying My way big time , And Has Figured out in  a big way which one of us makes him Comfortable , And expresses that his mom makes him feel bad because she talks so much crap , When I did respond to her feeding his mind full of crap about me in a unhealthy way , It seems to make him sway more her way , When I just say  stuff like , I know she says that stuff But you can see that I love you , Like if she said I was green would I be green ?, He sort of gets it , BUT , When I have made the mistake of letting Him see that I get Mad at his mom . It hurts him . Trust Me The more You are nice about the Mom the more The children Will like you , And the Better they will fare in this deal , I  Believ what My son has told me , And I believe that keeping my end as clean and healthy as possible , And showing up and Making a legal issue of it when she was in contempt Has made this psycho behave , If you participate . then the kids go home and say that You talked crap about mom and . it feeds this sick game , This is the alienators game and if you fall for it then she will succeed , Take the kids , And  Tell them they will have as much fun witrh you as withher , And take them to a display , then what ever you do , Bu the time the display is over then they are all tired anyway , DON'T BACK OUT !


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RE: What Would You Do?
« Reply #4 on: Jun 08, 2004, 01:48:46 PM »
I have a step-daughter in WA, we live in CA, we established custody here in CA 7/26/01 when we were given physical custody.  She had been in custody of Placer co. due to her mother's drug use and other issues(housing).  She was unable to preform in the 21 months of reunifications services offered to her from the co.  This is when I stepped up and said that if she wasn't going to be w/ her mother she belonged w/ me.  I then did the things that were required of me to obtain custody, drug testing, drug assesments, parenting classes, visits to our home by social  worker and co. nurse monthly, all which I did as asked to. At the end of the probationary period, a dismissal was requested by the social worker and I was given 100% physical custody.  Her mother moved to WA in 07/01, she was unable to rent here, and her sister took custody of her older son to save him from being adopted. She worked w/ her sister to eventually have her son agian.  In Feb.2003 we were back in sourt agian, she wanted to have her for 3 months and me 3 months, which the judge granted. At the end of my three months, it was Aug. and the girls(I have another daughter living w/me the same age) were about to begin preschool, I had already registered them in Head Start.  So I told her that and that if she wanted her at Thanksgiving and Christmas I would let her know when vacation was.  She wasn't going for that. She filed another motion to modify.  This time she had the court appointed attorney that represented her during the Placer co. CPS stuff representing her, free of charge? I had no attorney, couldn't affoprd one, but had been taking care of my daughter for the past 2 1/2 years without a problem, no health issues, reports to CPS or anything. I didn't feel that I would have a problem, we were going to the same county who took her away.  Wel, her mother never stepped foot into a court room or the mediators office (she was interviewed on the phone) yet the mediator recommended she live w/ her mother and I have visitation, 1 week at christmas, 1 week at Easter and 2 weeks in the summer. Kristen is a sole surviving triplet with asthma, her mother never had her in her custody more than the 3 months she visited in 02/03 to 05/03. We should have talked to her 2 times a week on the phone.  When she picked her up 10/18/03 I could see that her and her friend were high on meth. I called 911 and reported it, gave therm a description of the car and the occupants, 2 kids were in the car too, they drove straight from WA and were turning around to drive right back.  Pretty long drive.  No response from any in regards to our call. 1 week later we still haven't heard from them, so we call WA CPS and explain the story and we can not reach anyone, don't even know if they ever made it back!  She suggested calling Pierce co. sherriff and the Tacoma P.D. We did this, no one would check on her. Called the CPS worker back, she said there was nothing she could do, we were in another state and didn't know we were only assuming.  So we found a friend in WA sent a map to him and he went to the address, it appeared to be empty, we left a note anyway, please have Kristen call her dad and the ph#. No response.  1 week later we called CCPS agian, still haven't called and we think they have moved. Nothing they could do. She finally called 11/11/03 we got her new address, she wanted us to send her shot records, she claimed to still have no phone.  We went to trial 11/21/03, I didn't agree with the recommendation of the mediator. On the way to court that morning we had a flat tire, this made us late, I never missed a court date not even when I was only supporting reunification w/ her mother!  When we arrived they said the motion had already been heard and an order was made, they gave us copy of the hand written minutes.  I had visitation for 12/27/03 to  01/03/04 I hadn't been able to reach her still, but I printed a map and went there the day of my visitation and picked up my daughter, she was very suprised to see me. Wanted to know how I knew where she lived, Mapquest.com, and sure enough she had a phone. It was a 2 bedroom duplex, her and all 3 kids shared one room, only one double bed. I asked where her bed was she said she hadn't a chance to get her one yet(2months).  Her mother didn't pick her up until 02/08/04, she'd call and say she was coming yet didn't show until 02/08/04. Then in April I was trying to hunt her down agian to arrange for my visit at Easter. I couldn't reach her. When I got a certified letter from WA, it was CPS had custody of my daughter. 03/31/04 her mother was arrested for manufacturing an controlled substance (meth). 4 felony counts of child endangerment.  I got the information 04/22/04, this happened 03/31/04 I immediately contacted the CPS worker in charge of the case, she wouldn't give me any information, her mother had told them that I was somewhere in CA, she had no way to contact me, so she would be able to keep her from me and have the kids placed w/ her sister. I expressed my desire to have my daughter, she also says the youngest son is mine, I would like to have him  too.  She told me I needed to send a calling card if I wanted the kids to call me. She treated me very badly, didn't listen to what I said or believe me. She took the word of her mother. I obtained a court appointed attorney, Fred Thorne. 05/17/04 we had a dependency hearing, I got some paperwork in the mail it was titled "fact-findind" and had the 05/17/04 date on it and was a permanent placement plan, indicating reunification w/ the mother as primary choice and Alternate choice was fopr the kids to remain with their aunt. It said I could not be considered as a resource, although I had expressed that I wanted them w/ me.  It stated that I had custody of Kristen for a short time and lost her to fosster care for not following through. This is all so unbelievabley false and so easily proven if anyone had requested any documentation from Placer co. They still have not given me my daught er, I still have not talked to them on the phone. I have been speaking to CPS-Joel Odimba and Rocky Stevenson, they are supposed to be contacting the worker in Placer that handled everything to verify what I have told them.  And then I should get her, still haven't got her.  My attorney is trying to tell me that the order in Placer county is useless to me, due to the situation she was in. I didn't put her in it, I tried to contact proper authorities and report it, no one would help me. Now they have helped the kids, someone else called 911 and they discovered all of this then, but they are not letting me have my daughter. I need to have paternity established for my son and will have to go through the process for him, but I already have been through this w/ my daughter. Can you help me with understanding WA state laws? We go to court agian 06/14/04 Monday, my attorney says I don't need to be there, but I am going to fly up anyhow with my custody papers and any more proof they may need. I also am filing an order to show cause on the modifications that were made her in Placer 11/21/03. Is there any advice you might have?


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