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Author Topic: Denied visitation and phone contact  (Read 4874 times)

desperatedad63

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Denied visitation and phone contact
« on: Mar 26, 2005, 12:44:01 PM »
I have a 10 yo daughter who lives in another state. We have always had a great relationship, but since about the first of the year (2005) it has seemed to go downhill. I have court signed documentation outlining my visitation time and I'm also suppose to have phone contact. Since about February my daughters mom has been screening her calls and when I leave messages, I never get a return call. Towards the end of February my daughters mom told me she wouldn't help me with my relationship with my daughter anymore. She tells me my daughter doesn't want too speak with me and is mad at me????? My daughter was suppose to be up here for her spring vacation on the 19th of March and when I drove 250 miles to the designated pickup spot they didn't show. I am tired of her mom using my daughter too punish me when she doesn't get her way with things concerning us. Her mom had called me in January stating she was having typical mother/daughter problems and I believe she became worried that my relationship was so strong with the child, she became worried my daughter would eventually want to come live with me.   I believe she has been manipulating my daughter. I know my daughter got upset at me towards the end of January, but I have apoligized many times and would think that a 10 yo would be over it by now? I have been stressing for months now over this and have tried finding help, but no one seems to care much. She is in contempt of court and knows it. I just want to have a loving caring relationship with my child and be part of her life like I always have. I am a desperate Dad looking for input........Thanks!  


MYSONSDAD

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RE: Denied visitation and phone contact
« Reply #1 on: Mar 26, 2005, 03:05:29 PM »
Do you have receipts while you were at the pick up spot? How long did you wait? Another receipt to back up how long you waited? Did someone go with you?

Do you keep your phone records showing your attempts to call? Continue calling, document every call.

If you have a papertrail to back up the no contact, I would file contempt.
Do whatever you can to exercise your visitation.

Everything should be documented on what is going on.

desperatedad63

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RE: Denied visitation and phone contact
« Reply #2 on: Mar 26, 2005, 05:04:43 PM »
Yes I purchased something at McDonalds which is the pickup spot. I waited an hour past the pickup time and I used a cell phone to call their house and my daughters mom's cell phone and I left messages. I had a friend go with me and had them take photos of me at Mcdonalds. I use a calling card when calling, but towards the end of February I began writing down each time I called......not the times for the most part, but just making a note that I called and whether I got a return call. On the Monday following the Saturday I went too pick her up I received a certified letter in the mail from my daughter. The date it was written (or so it says?) was 3/14, it was mailed 3/18 the day before I left to pick her up. She basically said she loved me and missed me....she was writing the letter all by herself, she wouldn't be coming for springbreak and last.....Her mom wasn't keeping her from me. I got the certified letter Monday the 21st......I live 500 miles away. I think her mom was trying to cover her butt.

MYSONSDAD

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RE: Denied visitation and phone contact
« Reply #3 on: Mar 26, 2005, 07:56:11 PM »
You know what your doing. Should have enough to file contempt. Ask for make up time, travel expenses, attorney fees and court costs.

BM could have called you. You know your daughter, were words put in her mouth?

Cover her butt, too little, too late. File the contempt.

Nice job!
 
"Children learn what they live"

desperatedad63

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RE: Denied visitation and phone contact
« Reply #4 on: Mar 27, 2005, 12:58:05 AM »
Yes I believe my daughter was coached on the letter. She was excited to come up for her visit when my parents talked to her on the 6th of March (a day I had called 4 times and only got an answering machine and no return call) All her mom had to do was call and tell me my daughter was ill, since my paperwork says that is a reason for not coming for visitation. She did tell me on the 14th that my daughter didn't want to come up, but Oregon Law states that at no age can a minor child refuse to come for their scheduled visitation and I called and left a message on the 15th that I wanted to see my daughter for the scheduled visitation and I would be there on Saturday to pick her up. I called again on the 17th and left a message saying I would see them on Saturday. When my daughters mom picked up the phone while I was leaving a message on the 14th she told me that I wasn't suppose to call anymore and I was harrassing her. She even had the police call me on the 15th, but I told them I had a right to call my daughter and I wasn't calling the mom, so they could do what they wanted, but I would continue too call. They told me if my paperwork said I could call then they couldn't stop me.....  DUH!  When the mom told me on the phone on the 14th that my daughter didn't want to talk to me or come up I asked to speak with my daughter, but she refused to let me. Can I file a contempt of court even though our paperwork states that if we have a disagreement our first course of action is mediation? I'm so tired of these games the mom plays on me whenever she gets mad at me! She is nice to me when she wants something, but whenever I tell her something she doesn't want to hear she retaliates. Like when she called me in Dec. of 2003 and asked if I still loved her and I told her it had been over for 9 years she retaliated. It goes on and on...I just want to live my life and be part of my childs life. Everything I have read say's that the courts don't look kindly on one parent interferring in the relationship between the other parent and the child and she could lose custody. Is ther any justice in the court system?????? Thank you MYSONSDAD...it's nice to know someone will listen to what I have to say!    


MYSONSDAD

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RE: Denied visitation and phone contact
« Reply #5 on: Mar 27, 2005, 07:23:53 PM »
Sounds like you have PAS going on.

As far as the BM accusing you of harassment, I don't think she can.
Phone harassment is generally 3 calls within one hour. Your phone records would show different. Here is a site where you can look up your state laws regarding taping calls and what constitutes harassment.

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/

I would not only file contempt on the missed weekend, but for the phone calls you are being denied. They are also up for contempt and your phone records would help back that up.

Some other information:

1. TGB's Links Pages - OREGON
Links and resources for the State of Oregon.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/tgbor.htm - size 4kb - 24 Oct 2003
2. TGB's Links Pages
This page contains a collection of links and resources for fathers and noncustodial parents, including state-by-state links.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/tgblinks.htm - size 10kb - 24 Oct 2003
3. Access To School and Medical Records- State Statutes & General Information
This page contains information on accessing your child's school and medical records, including a list of State Statutes related to accessing school and medical records.
URL: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/access.htm - size 12kb - 20 Oct 2003


Sounds a little like she wants you back...

"Children learn what they live"

MYSONSDAD

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Something I found, but...
« Reply #6 on: Mar 27, 2005, 07:58:02 PM »
Where is jurisdiction? You are dealing with two States.

What does your CO say in regard to telephonic communications with your daughter?

Oregon whttp://www.multistalkervictims.org/laws/oregon.htm

Oregon
Stalking
Harassment
Conduct protected by labor laws

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This page lists the most applicable state crimes addressing stalking. However, depending on the facts of the case, a stalker might also be charged with other crimes, such as trespassing, intimidation of a witness, breaking and entering, etc. Check your state code or consult with your local prosecutor about other charges that might apply in a particular case.

Stalking
§163.732. Stalking. 1993. Amended 1995.


(1) A person commits the crime of stalking if:
(a) The person knowingly alarms or coerces another person or a member of that person's immediate family or household by engaging in repeated and unwanted contact with the other person;
(b) It is objectively reasonable for a person in the victim's situation to have been alarmed or coerced by the contact; and
(c) The repeated and unwanted contact causes the victim reasonable apprehension regarding the personal safety of the victim or a member of the victim's immediate family or household.
(2) (a) Stalking is a Class A misdemeanor.
> (b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this subsection, stalking is a Class C felony if the person has a prior conviction for:
(A) Stalking; or
(B) Violating a court's stalking protective order.
(c) When stalking is a Class C felony pursuant to paragraph (b) of this subsection, stalking shall be classified as a person felony and as crime category 8 of the sentencing guidelines grid of the Oregon Criminal Justice Commission.

§ 163.730. Definitions for ORS 30.866 and 163.730 to 163.750. 1993. Amended 2001.As used in ORS 30.866 and 163.730 to 163.750, unless the context requires otherwise:


(1) 'Alarm' means to cause apprehension or fear resulting from the perception of danger.
(2) 'Coerce' means to restrain, compel or dominate by force or threat.
(3) 'Contact' includes but is not limited to:
(a) Coming into the visual or physical presence of the other person;
(b) Following the other person;
(c) Waiting outside the home, property, place of work or school of the other person or of a member of that person's family or household;
(d) Sending or making written or electronic communications in any form to the other person;
(e) Speaking with the other person by any means;
(f) Communicating with the other person through a third person;
(g) Committing a crime against the other person;
(h) Communicating with a third person who has some relationship to the other person with the intent of affecting the third person's relationship with the other person;
(i) Communicating with business entities with the intent of affecting some right or interest of the other person;
(j) Damaging the other person's home, property, place of work or school; or
(k) Delivering directly or through a third person any object to the home, property, place of work or school of the other person.
(4) 'Household member' means any person residing in the same residence as the victim.
(5) 'Immediate family' means father, mother, child, sibling, parent, spouse, grandparent, stepparent and stepchild.
(6) 'Law enforcement officer' means any person employed in this state as a police officer by a county sheriff, constable, marshal or municipal or state police agency.
(7) 'Repeated' means two or more times.
(8) 'School' means a public or private institution of learning or a child care facility.

§ 163.755. Conduct protected by labor laws. 1995.


Nothing in ORS 30.866 or 163.730 to 163.750 shall be construed to permit the issuance of a court's stalking protective order under ORS 30.866 or 163.738, a citation under ORS 163.735, a criminal prosecution under ORS 163.732 or a civil action under ORS 30.866 for conduct that is authorized or protected by the labor laws of this state or of the United States.

Harassment
§ 166.065. Harassment. 1971. Amended 2001.


(1) A person commits the crime of harassment if the person intentionally:
(a) Harasses or annoys another person by:
(A) Subjecting such other person to offensive physical contact; or
(B) Publicly insulting such other person by abusive words or gestures in a manner intended and likely to provoke a violent response;
(b) Subjects another to alarm by conveying a false report, known by the conveyor to be false, concerning death or serious physical injury to a person, which report reasonably would be expected to cause alarm; or
(c) Subjects another to alarm by conveying a telephonic, electronic, or written threat to inflict serious physical injury on that person or to commit a felony involving the person or property of that person or any member of that person's family, which threat reasonably would be expected to cause alarm.
(2) A person is criminally liable for harassment if the person knowingly permits any telephone or electronic device under the person's control to be used in violation of subsection (1) of this section.
(3) Harassment is a Class B misdemeanor.
(4) Notwithstanding subsection (3) of this section, harassment is a Class A misdemeanor if a person violates subsection (1) of this section by subjecting another person to offensive physical contact and the offensive physical contact consists of touching the sexual or other intimate parts of the other person.

§ 166.090. Telephonic harassment. 1987. Amended 1999.


(1) A telephone caller commits the crime of telephonic harassment if the caller intentionally harasses or annoys another person:
(a) By causing the telephone of the other person to ring, such caller having no communicative purpose; or
(b) By causing such other person's telephone to ring, knowing that the caller has been forbidden from so doing by a person exercising lawful authority over the receiving telephone.
(2) Telephonic harassment is a Class B misdemeanor.

Conduct protected by labor laws

ORS 163.755. Conduct protected by labor laws. 1995. Amended 2003.


(1) Nothing in ORS 30.866 or 163.730 to 163.750 shall be construed to permit the issuance of a court's stalking protective order under ORS 30.866 or 163.738, the issuance of a citation under ORS 163.735, a criminal prosecution under ORS 163.732 or a civil action under ORS 30.866:

(A) For conduct that is authorized or protected by the labor laws of this state or of the United States.

(B) By or on behalf of a person who is in the legal or physical custody of a law enforcement unit or is in custody under ORS chapter 419C.

(C) By or on behalf of a person not described in paragraph (B) of this subsection to or against another person who:

(a) Is a parole and probation officer or an officer, employee or agent of a law enforcement unit, a county juvenile department or the Oregon Youth Authority; and

(b) Is acting within the scope of the other person’s official duties.

(2) As used in this section, ‘law enforcement unit’ and ‘parole and probation officer’ have the meanings given those terms in ORS 181.610.

"Children learn what they live"

desperatedad63

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RE: Denied visitation and phone contact
« Reply #7 on: Mar 27, 2005, 09:05:31 PM »
No....she doesn't want me back....lol  She wants me out of the childs life for whatever reason I don't know? The police even agreed with that statement. They told me that she had gone to some womens orginization and they gave her a recording device, but I already new that when her answering machine voice message changed a couple of times. I have been dealing with her shenanigans for 10 years and I know her. I'm smart enough not to be baited into her games even though she knows how to push my buttons...lol  Like I said earlier I'm calling to talk with my daughter not her so all the messages she is recording are pleasant and directed to my child. The two times she (BM) has picked up the phone while I was leaving a message, I  knew I was being recorded. And she tried hard to keep me from saying things that show what type of person she is. This woman has an older child from another guy and when the child was just a baby she hopped a bus in the middle of the night and left....the child has never met their father or had any contact and the child is 16, but the father has had to pay child support all those years. That is another matter though.
   I have requested my daughters medical records and will request her school records when school resumes this week from springbreak. I have always asked the BM to send me school reports and she says she will but never does.
   What is a PAS? Can I file contempt of court without going to mediation? Thank you for the links....I will look at them. I hope you had a nice Easter!

MYSONSDAD

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RE: Denied visitation and phone contact
« Reply #8 on: Mar 27, 2005, 09:21:52 PM »
If she is taping and you can prove it, she is breaking the law. Oregon seems to be very strict on taping. She may hang herself.

Would be sweet if you could find this other father and have him testify on your behalf.

You should be able to file Motion to Compel, on the contempts. You could post on Socs board just to be sure, but I do not think a mediator will get assigned on that. Just post to Soc about your missed weekend and the lack of telehone communication. Follow his guidelines. He will also want to know what the CO says in regard to telephone communications.

You could write to the school and enclose SASE. Be very polite and to the point. Let them know you are out of state. Send enough envelopes so they can mail all school records to you.

Parent Alienation Syndrome. Here is one site, there are many others.

http://www.breakthroughparenting.com/PAS.htm

"Children learn what they live"

desperatedad63

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RE: Something I found, but...
« Reply #9 on: Mar 27, 2005, 09:25:28 PM »
Jurisdiction is in Oregon. I live in Washington.

  CO states that: 1)  Each parent shall exert every reasonable effort to maintain free access and unhampered contact between the child and the other parent. Each parent shall endeavor to avoid acting in such a way as to alienate the child from the other parent or hamper a free and natural development of the child's love and respect for their parents. No derogatory comments about the other party are to be made in the presence or within the hearing of the minor
 2) Respondent and petioner shall have open telephone calls with the child while she is with the other parent
 3)The parties shall be prompt in their pick up and delivery of the child and substantial medical reasons will be considered sufficient for postponement of parenting time. In the event that the child is ill and unable to to go with the respondent, Petitioner shall make every effort to notify the respondent in advance to avoid unnecessary travel and the paarenting time shall be rescheduled when childs health permits.

  I am not or have I ever stalked the BM.........Not sure what you are trying too tell me?  

MYSONSDAD

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RE: Something I found, but...
« Reply #10 on: Mar 27, 2005, 09:30:26 PM »
I think you have an excellent chance to get her on the contempts. And there is no way she can get you for phone harrassment, unless you call every two minutes.
 
The burden of proof will be on her to show medical documentation and a receipt of being at the pick up point.

Scroll down on that site, it has telephonic harassment toward the end. That is what I wanted you to see...

"Children learn what they live"

gipsy

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FILE CONTEMPT !!!
« Reply #11 on: Mar 27, 2005, 09:37:41 PM »
 I do residential; work  On hardwood floors And have worked for a few atty's . It is confirmed three times By these atty's and mine , Your only recourese is to file contempt , My atty is a good atty , Here's how he explains it , " Parenting plans are not self enforcing ," So you have to file contempt " He told me he tells the Judge or commissioner in every case about the same thing ' Her say's " Mom won't let Dad see the kids " And I need the court to enforce visitation Becuase Mom will continue if I can't get any help " Then He said too Me " You won't be likely to get her on contempt on the first few tries < BUT Ask for make up time " He also said " This works for a couple of issues " First Mom has to take the day off and or hire an atty . An atty isn't going to be likely to advise hwer to be in contempt of a Court ordered parenting plan <  If you don't get a contempt thenyou may get makeup time < The effect is this < She had to goto court and still give up the visit < Secondly You need to file contempt issues because if it keeps up The judge willl eventually get tired of it and change custody <  This I have seen happen < So if you can't hire an atty , AGAIN ! My atty say's file it pro-se And show up yourself at court , Because if you get it wrong [Pierce county Washington ) You can get the court recording of a commissioners hearing (not judges) For 10$ I have done this ! And you will listen to yourself and the commissioner and get it right the next time , And by the 3rd time you will have it right and they will be sick of this and you qwill be very likely to get a finding of contempt   This is the  inexpensive help they got !  with pen and paper in hand : call the court and ask if they have a night when atty's help pro se litigants , GO TO child support and get there list of low cost legal help , Call the Bar association . Call Parrelegal services .And MANY atty's in the phone book , And ask about who can help you file this and get her legally served , Of all those resources you will get some help , I went to commissioner services and filed a few things on my own , Its not that hard , Also Find out if you go before a judge or a commissioner , Then go to the court and watch some of these types of hearings ,  What I saw is there really isn't that much to it , I needed an atty becuase of fear , BEcuase My case was very complicated < But a contempt is easy and My atty  Typed a contempt up for My cousin , In like five minutes for free < So call a bunch of atty's and get one that does family law and will type this up for you , When you go to the court and file it be really nice and they will help you , then have mom served " Legal service costs between 50$ and 100$ and sometimes they chrge extra if she hides , I have performed legal service And the Woman was being difficult and hiding in the house so I called the police and asked for a" CIVIL STANDBY "THEY DO THIS iN MY STATE  If there is the possibilty of trouble , So its how you word the issue to the police And they showed up and stood there and she peeked out and saw the police and answered the door , I handed her the papers and walked away " Thast what  the sevice person does < Then service person fills out a declaration to the copurt that say's ""  I " service person served "  Jane smith " With these documents . Its pretty simple , But thats it , My cousin showed at court and the commissioner said " Basically ' Grow UP" But it straightened Mom out , And My cousin's PBFH Was doing exactly what Your Psycho is , And I went to the Pick up ' with a video camera > And the Moms sister had the child and it was turning bad , And the psycho in-laws Began flipping us off etc , So I put up the camera and they behaved ,And My cousins daughter and Him talked things over and things have been fine " The next quote from My GOOD atty that files contempt 'every time 'said " if you let her do it you teach her that she can"GET THAT CONTEMPT FILED ITS YOUR ONLY RECOURSE !!! I don't think MOM will straighten out , And in Wash state Its like two comtempt findings in a year and you get a changed of custody , So Oregon may be the sme and if mom hires an atty he will tell her that !

desperatedad63

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RE: Denied visitation and phone contact
« Reply #12 on: Mar 27, 2005, 09:37:58 PM »
When the police called me on the 15th of March they told me she was taping everything. I know she is taping because like I stated the answering machine changed twice from the original and now I am aable to leave my daughter long messages like I was talking to her, but without any response from my daughter.....I am very careful what I say.
  I wish I could contact him, but I don't know his last name. I do know he lives in Ohio and I do know that he now has a family. He was 15 at the time and she was 18.

   I'm new to all this...what is SOC  

MYSONSDAD

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RE: Denied visitation and phone contact
« Reply #13 on: Mar 27, 2005, 09:48:44 PM »
I bet your daughter never hears those messages.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is statuatory rape!

When you get on the message boards, scroll down, Socrateaser. He can advise you on how to file the contempt if your going this alone.

"Children learn what they live"

desperatedad63

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RE: FILE CONTEMPT !!!
« Reply #14 on: Mar 27, 2005, 09:48:50 PM »
Thank you very much!!!!!!!!! I will definitely start the proceedings. I am fed up with her trying too think she can control me and it's time she learned a few lessons about how she abuses the system! I am hoping that I can get custody for the sake of my daughter. The thought has crossed my mind that she is doing this hoping I won't do anything and that I will disappear from the childs life......well I maybe 500 miles away and in another state, but my daughter means the world to me and has since the day I heard I was going to be a father.

desperatedad63

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RE: Denied visitation and phone contact
« Reply #15 on: Mar 27, 2005, 09:52:41 PM »
The BM has told me that my daughter hears all my messages, but she is mad at me and will talk to me when she is done being mad at me....it's been over two months since she got upset at me. I have left messages saying that I am sorry and that when you love someone you should talk it out, so out of respect for Dad (me) please call me so we can work this out.

desperatedad63

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RE: Something I found, but...
« Reply #16 on: Mar 27, 2005, 10:07:08 PM »
I have the cerified letter from my daughter, I called on the 15th of March and left a message staing I wanted to see my daughter and I would be there too pick her up on the 19th, I called on the 17th of march and left a message saying I would be there on Saturday the 19th to pick up my daughter  and my parents called on the 14th of March and left a message because arrangements had been made between them and the BM too pick up my daughter down in Oregon on the 18th, they asked for her to call them back she never did so they called on the 15th and were leaving a message when the BM picked up and told them that my daughter didn't want to come up (although they had talked with my daughter and the BM in the previous week on two seperate occasions and my daughter and the BM had both said that my daughter was excited to come up) and they wouldn't be there. They asked to speak with my daughter and the BM said she doesn't want too talk to her grandfather or her grandmother. This child has always loved all three of us very much and it is so starnge that she would say these things!  Thank you! You have helped so much and I know nothing about you or why you're here, but you have relieved some of the stress I have been living with for the last 3 months....Thank so much!

MYSONSDAD

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RE: Something I found, but...
« Reply #17 on: Mar 27, 2005, 10:24:56 PM »
Your certified letter will help you on the contempts. She was a little late on mailing this and she knows it. More time should have been given, we all know how the mail system is. Does it show when it was mailed?

With your daughter not wanting to speak with the grandparents, this just shows there is "alienating behavior" taking place.

http://www.rgardner.com/refs/

http://www.helpstoppas.com/

I am surprised the Police Officer who told you she was taping, did not do anything about it. According to the taping laws, she is in violation.

File those contempts, stop her in her tracks and get your time with your daughter. Once she is with you, you will find out what is going on...


"Children learn what they live"

MYSONSDAD

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Just a thought...
« Reply #18 on: Mar 27, 2005, 10:27:51 PM »
All girls like getting flowers. Why not send her something at her school. That should make her feel very special...

"Children learn what they live"

desperatedad63

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RE: Something I found, but...
« Reply #19 on: Mar 27, 2005, 10:33:25 PM »
Yes it was postmarked on the 18th of March which was Friday the day before I was leaving. I just sent my daughters Easter present last week and used certified mail and was standing right there when they postmarked it so I know that it was indeed mailed on the 18th.....my daughter put 3/14/2005 on the letter that was in the certified mail envelope....whether she wrote it that day or not I don't know? I live 500 miles away and when I leave my house to go pick up my daughter I have to leave at 6:00 am, the BM knows this and still no phone call....no messages when I returned home at 7:30 that night. She has to have something up her sleeve.....can she be this stupid??????

desperatedad63

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RE: Just a thought...
« Reply #20 on: Mar 27, 2005, 10:40:35 PM »
I really doubt my daughter hears all my messages..........or any of them for that matter. I believe the BM told me that my daughter cries when she hears them, but I don't know? I will consider the flowers....it's a great idea, let me think about it....I don't want to upset her at school. Thanks!

MYSONSDAD

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RE: Something I found, but...
« Reply #21 on: Mar 27, 2005, 10:55:47 PM »
There is no excuse for not calling. She had plenty of time. And what utility bill can you think of that does not request 5 days for mailing?

Yes, she can be this stupid, let's just hope she keeps it up...

"Children learn what they live"

desperatedad63

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RE: Something I found, but...
« Reply #22 on: Mar 27, 2005, 11:55:04 PM »
My thoughts exactly.....

desperatedad63

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RE: Something I found, but...
« Reply #23 on: Mar 28, 2005, 12:00:04 AM »
"Children Learn what they live"........It's sad too think that my daughter is learning morals and values from her BM! In the 10-12 weeks a year that I'm suppose to have I have tried to teach her proper morals and values.....let's hope they have rooted!

MYSONSDAD

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RE: Something I found, but...
« Reply #24 on: Mar 28, 2005, 10:39:29 AM »
Quality over quantity. Someday she will figure it out. I am hoping our son figures it out in time.

Just keep those values and morals coming...

"Children learn what they live"

 

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