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Author Topic: Will she ever quit??????  (Read 5395 times)

stepmom

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Will she ever quit??????
« on: Dec 13, 2006, 03:05:22 PM »
Here's the story.  My husband's ex wife is a monster!!! She tries to make our lives miserable in order to make herself look good.  She tells the children horrible things about us all the time in order to turn them against us.  After a long time of anger and hurt the children are finally starting to see through the lies she tells about us and realize that we (me especially-the stepmom) are good people who love them very much.
She always twists and turns around words in the divorce papers so that visitation is convenient for her.  In the divorce papers it says that we get the children every 2nd and 4th weekends of the month.  It also says that on even numbered years that we get the children from Dec. 26-Jan 1st for Christmas visitation.  Well it happens to be that the 4th weekend is Dec. 22,23, and 24th this month.  This should be our weekend.  We would take them home at 5:30 on the 24th and then pick them up again on the 26th at 5:30 and they would stay with us until Jan. 1st.  We have already told the children that they will stay with us again before Christmas and even told them that they can open one gift and save the rest until they come stay with us for a week to do our Christmas.
Well the monster decides that that's not good for her and calls and leaves us an ugly message saying that she is to have visitation that week and that we will NOT be getting the children that weekend.  She then says that the papers say that she has visitation that week since Christmas falls on a weekend.  The divorce papers say NOTHING about her visitation only my husband's!!  And Christmas is on MONDAY.  It does not fall on the weekend.
We have tried to talk to our lawyer about this and all that he really has to say is "that's just too bad for you" or "that's the life of a divorced father and you will just have to get used to it".  I can't believe this!!!  I didn't realize how unfair divorces really are to some outstanding fathers like my husband.  How can she change what is written in the divorce papers?  How is that right?  If there is ever a conflict on visitation she ALWAYS gets her way even when she's in the wrong.

Any suggestions on what we should do??


Ref

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Ugh
« Reply #1 on: Dec 13, 2006, 03:57:22 PM »
Yeah. I have to agree with your lawyer. It isn't that it is right to have happen or fair, but what are ya gunna do about it? CP's have you by the ba!!s.

My advice is for DH to say that he understands that she would like them for all of Xmas eve and offer to bring them home first thing in the morning or the evening before. You will lose time, but it really wont be too much.

What does your agreement say about the years he is supposed to have the kid for xmas? is it the weekend or just the day?

Ref

mistoffolees

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RE: Will she ever quit??????
« Reply #2 on: Dec 13, 2006, 04:58:41 PM »
Two comments of advice:

First, if the agreement is clear that you have the kids the 22nd through 24th and also the 26th through 1st, I'd show up at her door with a copy of the agreement and if she doesn't let you have the kids, I'd call the police and file a report. That is why you have a written agreement - so that personal opinions don't enter into matters.

I'm having a hard time figuring out why your attorney doesn't accept that - unless there's more to the story than I'm seeing.

Second, you're not doing yourself (or your husband) any good by referring to her as a monster, etc. Your best bet is to learn to deal with her on a purely rational, emotion-free basis. Think Mr. Spock. In cases where she's within her rights to do something, let it go quietly. If she's not right, then quietly enforce your rights. There's no need to raise your own blood pressure 100 points.

And, yes, I speak from experience. I went through exactly the same thing wtih my stbx's first husband. You won't win by getting upset.

stepmom

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RE: Ugh
« Reply #3 on: Dec 14, 2006, 08:13:49 AM »
The papers say that on the even numbered years he is to have the children from Dec. 26th-Jan.1st and on odd numbered years he is to have them from Dec. 20-25.  She doesn't want us to interfere with the plans she has already made.  But she made these plans before checking the paperwork.  When she doesn't agree with what my husband says or does she throws a temper tantrum about it and gets the kids involved which makes them upset.  My husband backs down when this happens because he doesn't want the children upset or angry and then she gets whatever she wants.  My question is when is enough enough??? I don't want to see the children upset but I don't think it's right for her to keep on running over him either.

stepmom

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RE: Will she ever quit??????
« Reply #4 on: Dec 14, 2006, 08:19:10 AM »
I only refer to her as a "monster" because that's the nicest word I could think of.  I know I shouldn't do that but I am so frustrated with the whole situation.  This is nothing compared to what she has done in the past.  We try to enforce our rights quietly but we are usually told "that's too bad" or something similar.

When there is a disagreement between her and my husband she brings the children in to it and makes them upset.  Then my husband will let it go just to spare the children heartache and anger.  But when is enough enough????? She shouldn't just be able to run over him every time she doesn't agree with him.  


mistoffolees

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RE: Will she ever quit??????
« Reply #5 on: Dec 14, 2006, 08:49:53 AM »
That's why I suggested the first part of my advice. If you have a written agreement which is clear in issues, then you should be able to enforce it. I would try what I suggested - telling her you're picking the kids up and bringing an independent adult to witness things. You might also call the police if she won't surrender the kids pursuant to a valid court order (although in some areas the police won't get involved).

If she's doing it regularly AND YOU CAN PROVE IT (by doing what I suggest above), you are free to file with the court for enforcement of the agreement.  If your lawyer won't do it, find out why and consider getting an attorney with backbone. In general, the courts get very upset when people don't obey their orders. In fact, you might find yourself in the position of getting extra days to make up for the ones she's denied in the past.

But please consider getting counseling or working wth someone on controlling your anger. The ideal situation is where you're calm and collected and she's ranting. If you're both ranting, it's going to be a mess. One way to do this is to focus on your husband's rights rather than on the ex. For example, in this particular case, I'd say "My husband is entitled to the court-ordered time with his children and that's important to us that we want to follow the letter of the agreement" rather than "she won't let us have the kids". Use "I" (or "my husband") in your statements and there's very little need to talk about what the other person does. "I didn't get the visitation I'm entitled to" is just as clear as "she won't let me see the kids" and is far, far, far less inflammatory.

I know, it's hard, but it's worth it in the end.

Good luck.

Ref

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For me, Monster is very polite
« Reply #6 on: Dec 14, 2006, 09:08:26 AM »
I personally think it is just fine to express your feelings about her. Sure you have to ultimately have to put everything in logical context to get things done well. Sure you have to put up a very neutral front infront of the kids. Here....well VENT AWAY!

I am calm cool and collected around SD and BM. So much it completely unnerves BM. I guess it is a little passive agressive.... Anyway I love this board because you can express your feelings and almost all of us completely understand.

Moster, pain-in-the-a$$, PBFH, See you next Tuesday.... they are all good in my book..

Best wishes,
Ref

Jade

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RE: Ugh
« Reply #7 on: Dec 14, 2006, 12:02:15 PM »
>The papers say that on the even numbered years he is to have
>the children from Dec. 26th-Jan.1st and on odd numbered years
>he is to have them from Dec. 20-25.  She doesn't want us to
>interfere with the plans she has already made.  But she made
>these plans before checking the paperwork.  When she doesn't
>agree with what my husband says or does she throws a temper
>tantrum about it and gets the kids involved which makes them
>upset.  My husband backs down when this happens because he
>doesn't want the children upset or angry and then she gets
>whatever she wants.  My question is when is enough enough??? I
>don't want to see the children upset but I don't think it's
>right for her to keep on running over him either.

From what you wrote above, on the years that she gets them for Christmas, she would have them for the whole week-end before.  Just like you get them for the whole week-end of Christmas on the years you have them.  BTW, using your logic, she should have them for the week-end before New Years, since New Years is on a Monday and that is her normal week-end.  

I think that you are not reading the court order correctly.  

Kitty C.

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Question.........
« Reply #8 on: Dec 14, 2006, 01:48:11 PM »
Does your CO state that holiday visitation take precedence over regular visitation?  If so, then unfortunately the BM is right.  If, on odd years, you have them 12/26-1/1 and even is 12/20-12/25, then her holiday visitation is just the opposite.  And if holiday visitation takes precedence, she DOES legally have them this year from 12/20-12/25, regardless of what days of the week they fall on.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we've dealt with this many times in the past and have had the same situations come up........
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

gabes_mom

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RE: Ugh
« Reply #9 on: Dec 14, 2006, 01:49:53 PM »
Sounds like the BM gets the kids btwn Dec 20th and 25th this year.  Holiday schedules usually take priority over weekend visitations.  Does it not say that somewhere in the court order?  

As for when enough is enough..... Honestly that isn't up to the BM, the kids, or you.  It's up to your husband.  When he feels like he's tired of getting walked on, crapped on, and beat down he will then stand up and let her and everyone around him know that he's had enough.  No I don't know your husband but I do know you can't make a man do something, like enforce the court ordered visitation if he isn't willing to fight tooth and nail.  It took my husband 3  yrs of getting screwed by the BM over this kind of crap to stand up and say this isn't okay and I'm going to make her follow the court order.  It also helps for you to do what you are doing, back him up and support his decision no matter whether it's one you'd personally make or not.


gabes_mom

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RE: Will she ever quit??????
« Reply #10 on: Dec 14, 2006, 01:53:24 PM »
One more thing,  about your lawyer.  I would fire him and get a lawyer who is willing to fight for you.  

Saying that "that's the life of a divorced father and you will just have to get used to it" just doesn't cut it for me.  Your lawyer is supposed to fight for you, that actually sounds like something I'd expect the BM's attorney to say.

stepmom

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RE: Ugh
« Reply #11 on: Dec 14, 2006, 02:26:29 PM »
Yes I read the papers correctly.  It states NOTHING about her visiation since the children live with her.  It only states his varying visitation depending on the years.  

stepmom

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RE: Will she ever quit??????
« Reply #12 on: Dec 14, 2006, 02:37:24 PM »
I would love for us to get another lawyer but we don't have to money to do that right now.

stepmom

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RE: Ugh
« Reply #13 on: Dec 14, 2006, 02:44:45 PM »
We want to go back to court but we don't have the money to do that right now.  From what we have been told it's going to take a lot of money to take the BM back to court.

My husband spoke with his lawyer today and he said that legally he can go pick up the kids on that weekend and she can't do anything about it. But he told my husband to be the bigger person and call her and tell her that legally he can pick them up but he wants them to spend Christmas with her as well.  And then he said to ask if he could come pick them up Christmas night.  But what does being the "bigger person" get him? I know the kids see it but does anyone else????  

stepmom

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RE: For me, Monster is very polite
« Reply #14 on: Dec 14, 2006, 02:51:09 PM »
Thank you!!!!

That's exactly how we are around the BM.  We remain calm and it drives her CRAZY!!!  There has been many times when she has said ugly things to us and we just smile and laugh.  She only does it to make us upset but it backfires on her when we don't.  

We might say negative things but never around her or the children.  That's just our way of letting it out. I'm glad I found this site now I can blow off some steam and get advice!!!  Thanks again!!!!!!

Stepmom

CGS

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RE: Will she ever quit??????
« Reply #15 on: Dec 14, 2006, 03:03:27 PM »
Read the holiday section carefully. My parenting plan and the plans of many others I know say something along the lines of:

"If a holiday falls on a Friday it includes the following weekend and if it falls on a Monday it includes the preceeding weekend."

If your dh's plan says this, you are sol. If it doesn't you could probably try to enfore your order with local authorities.. if thats what your dh decides to do.  

If you don't get them prior to xmas for this weekend, maybe you could take one of their gifts to their moms for them to open on xmas? the kids shouldn't miss out just because the parents dont get along.

CGS

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RE: Ugh
« Reply #16 on: Dec 14, 2006, 03:07:02 PM »
"But what does being the "bigger person" get him? I know the kids see it but does anyone else???? "

The ONLY people that matter ARE the KIDS!!!

Every parent should be the bigger person for the kids.  It sounds like your dh understands this.

dipper

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RE: Another weekend?
« Reply #17 on: Dec 14, 2006, 10:25:27 PM »
I fully agree with you on what the order says about the 26th through Jan 1st....it is your husband's time.  However, the weekend could be iffy....because it does appear that it is logical to assume that even numbered years the 20th-25th are hers.    I would request another weekend to make up for the weekend lost during the holiday.....

And, hey, I know how you feel.  I have been doing a little better where my dh's ex is concerned.   But, she is so irrational.  Everything is dh's fault, he is responsible for everything for ss, but she is the wonderful mommy and dh is a bad parent.  I think she calls only to upset us.....and unfortunately, i do not believe it will ever quit......


So, will she....No.  Sadly....

Mamacass

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RE: For me, Monster is very polite
« Reply #18 on: Dec 15, 2006, 03:22:30 PM »
Oh, Ref, I love you for saying this.  

Its true, in front of the kids, you stay neutral.  I will never tell my SS how I feel about his mom.  I also will never come out and tell him the straight truth about his mom (I don't think he needs to know that she is Borderline and a pathological liar, although I'm sure she's told him that she's bi-polar b/c she shouts that from the rooftops.)

I also am very careful not to talk negatively about her in front of my and DH's 5 y/o son, b/c I know he won't keep it quiet.  And that is really tough, b/c its hard to teach him to stay away from her, when she tries to give him hugs and act friendly towards him.  (I wouldn't mind except that she has pulled guns and knives on people and had made threats towards me and my pregnancy earlier this year.  She is not what I consider safe for my children to be around.)

However, when the kids aren't around, once in a while, I will vent to my husband or sister.  Then I will call her Looney Toons or Fruitcake or some other nickname.  I'll admit, after all the problems she has tried to cause, and after all the pain she has caused DH and SS b/c of her personal problems, I don't thinks its so bad that I call her these names as long as it isn't in front of her or the kids.

And monster would pretty accurately describe her and her behavior.  In fact I think it describes a lot of the BM's that people deal with on this site, b/c monsters in movies usually are very destructive toward the people around them.  And monsters are usually so protective of their children that they will attack anyone who comes near.  I think if you asked most BM's why they do the things they do, they would say that it is for their children (even though we can all see that it is not usually in the child's best interest).  I think they often forget that their children are also our children.

oh, and 1 more to add to your list Ref- What-her-$H**.  We will use it in place of whats-her-name.  Like, "What's her Sh** called and left another 5 minute voicemail about nothing today."  Maybe a little childish, but it makes ya feel better sometimes.  

gipsy

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RE: Will she ever quit??????
« Reply #19 on: Dec 19, 2006, 08:53:35 PM »
The Atty probably say's this cause you are out of money ,
  If not get a new atty
  Cause his Advice should be , If the court order say's you get the kids , She has to give them to you or she is  in contempt , Contempt is hard to prove
         ,save Her message  Message ,
     Then tell her to give the kids cause you will be there with a video camera , or just show up with one ,    
   SHE CAN"T just change the court order , Why do you even think she can overide a judges Order , Just tell her you wwill be there to pick up If not , Post on here about filing contempt on your own , Cause an Atty will charge $$$ , And you won't be ;likely to get a contempt ,
    But She may hire an atty , Or she has to take the time to respond , Etc , Theres a longer theory to this contempt issue , But File It if she doesn't Give the Kids , Then go to the court and get a CD of the hearing , And learn ,Then do it again , And Again , and she will iether get tired of Going to court , Or give you the kids , Or you will eventually get her on Contempt ,
   My Atty Explains , " parenting Plans are not self enforced , " " So you have to go ask the court to enforce it "
  He Goes On to say " you are not Likely to get a Contempt Cause Its hard to prove " " She could Just say the car broke or something "    " And you have to prove it's Intentional " SOOOO
  This worked for My cousin , ' My atty filled the papers out for Him In like 3 minutes , And gave it too him to file ,Para  Legal services can do the same . Call them In the Phone Book "
  My Atty Also said , "If You let her get away with it You teach her that she can " !!
       Atty Goes on to say "
   "So At least make her go through the worry of apearing at court "
  "Then Ask the court to give you make up time "
   This worked for Me . I did not get a contempt but, I got make up time  , And she quite doing it ,
  Again quote from atty " If She has to go through the Hassle of court "Then Give up the visit any way " " She will eventually see that it did her no good ""
   So IF it Happens DO IT !!!

stepmom

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RE: Will she ever quit??????
« Reply #20 on: Dec 20, 2006, 11:58:47 AM »
We would love to get our atty to do something about if but of course they want more money as does every other atty.  And this time of year we just don't have it.  She has been in contempt so many times but just like you say its hard to prove.  

My husband records all of his conversations with the children just because every once in a while she will just take the phone from them and hang it up.  We also have his son recorded saying "I had to ask mom if I could answer the phone because sometimes she doesn't let us answer it if you are calling."  My husband has a time frame in which he is allowed to call and talk to them and he always calls in his scheduled time.  And even then she sometimes doesn't let them answer the phone.  Just little things like that that keep adding up.  But how much is enough to really get it enforced???

Jade

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RE: Will she ever quit??????
« Reply #21 on: Dec 20, 2006, 12:52:46 PM »
>The Atty probably say's this cause you are out of money ,
>  If not get a new atty
>  Cause his Advice should be , If the court order say's you
>get the kids , She has to give them to you or she is  in
>contempt , Contempt is hard to prove
>         ,save Her message  Message ,
>     Then tell her to give the kids cause you will be there
>with a video camera , or just show up with one ,    
>   SHE CAN"T just change the court order , Why do you even
>think she can overide a judges Order , Just tell her you wwill
>be there to pick up If not , Post on here about filing
>contempt on your own , Cause an Atty will charge $$$ , And you
>won't be ;likely to get a contempt ,
>    But She may hire an atty , Or she has to take the time to
>respond , Etc , Theres a longer theory to this contempt issue
>, But File It if she doesn't Give the Kids , Then go to the
>court and get a CD of the hearing , And learn ,Then do it
>again , And Again , and she will iether get tired of Going to
>court , Or give you the kids , Or you will eventually get her
>on Contempt ,
>   My Atty Explains , " parenting Plans are not self enforced
>, " " So you have to go ask the court to enforce it "
>  He Goes On to say " you are not Likely to get a Contempt
>Cause Its hard to prove " " She could Just say the car broke
>or something "    " And you have to prove it's Intentional "
>SOOOO
>  This worked for My cousin , ' My atty filled the papers out
>for Him In like 3 minutes , And gave it too him to file ,Para
>Legal services can do the same . Call them In the Phone Book "
>
>  My Atty Also said , "If You let her get away with it You
>teach her that she can " !!
>       Atty Goes on to say "
>   "So At least make her go through the worry of apearing at
>court "
>  "Then Ask the court to give you make up time "
>   This worked for Me . I did not get a contempt but, I got
>make up time  , And she quite doing it ,
>  Again quote from atty " If She has to go through the Hassle
>of court "Then Give up the visit any way " " She will
>eventually see that it did her no good ""
>   So IF it Happens DO IT !!!

That is if the court actually states what the stepmom claims it is.  When holidays are split, what one parent gets one year, the other parent gets the next year.  

An example, if the parent gets the first half of the Christmas vacation and the dates run from 12/20-12/26, then the other parent gets those dates the next year.  Holiday visitation overrides normal EOW visitation.  I still think the ncp is reading the court order wrong.  

gipsy

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RE: Will she ever quit??????
« Reply #22 on: Dec 23, 2006, 04:00:16 AM »
this is why my atty encourages people to file contempt on their own , Cause he knows he is wasting your money ,
   But here is His theory for fileing on your own ,
     1 , Mom Has to take the time to respond to this
     2 She has to show at court
      3 . She has too worry ,
    4 Ask for make up time
          I can;t remmember the specifics about proving contempt , But you have to prove she did it intentionaly  
   My Atty say's Most parents that do this will show at court and say there is a reason beyond her control ,
   So Atty's Gives the basic words for contempt declaration
      +++ Tell the court , "Mom Won't give the Kids " So I have to come here in Hopes that the court will enforce the parenting plan " And that Is Why She is In contempt she is in violation of a court order "
   If you have proof then you need to have it in the declarations Here In Wash , Pierce county , Cause it goes before a commissioner , Then If you have to file a motion of reconsideration , The You will show it to a real judge ,
     My Atty say's , "Unless you can prove it the courtcan't do Much" ,
   " Use fileing contempt as a form of behavior modification " And she will get tired of going to court < If It goes on enough the court will do something ",
   And Always ask for Make up time , And strict adherance to the parenting plan ,
   My Atty goes on to say " If you do NOTHING about it " You teach her she can just get away with it , " He say;s Usually his Ideas work "
  and In My case they have ,
    Try this " does mOm have an atty ? If so file this stuff and send it too her atty " She will get tired of paying her atty ,
   If she ask's a decent atty ,' He can't Advise her to go against the court order " So In Essense she will Get asked By Her atty at her expense , Whats going on etc ,
   This has worked for me I sent papers to her atty myself ,
   Now she cooperates ,
   I agree with My atty And I feel My case is different cause I did something Legally correct many times and it costed her , Some times inChain mail to her atty ;
  I even sent one chain mail that said " Your atty is well Know for making money off chain mail So Charge Away Pal , If mom Can't cooperate I hope se gets the bill For this " It will be resolved one way or the other "
   When I threaten her with court She said " I know you will "!
   My situation is pretty decent right now ,
   YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHIN or she will keep doing it !!!

 

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