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Author Topic: Police Won't Enforce-Judge Won't Allow More Specific Schedule  (Read 6293 times)

Samson2005

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Hi.

In court, I am asking for a specific visitation schedule because no police officer will enforce the one we have saying it is too vague.

I told that to the judge that and he read the original and said everything was there for it to be enforcable. He refused the schedule I offered (which is basically the same as what we have but, with specific times and dates).

He refused to change anything other than transfers will take place at mom's at 5pm on Fridays and home at 6pm Sundays instead of at the school when it lets out, and returned home the night before school resumes. This is cutting me out of extended weekends.

What to do, what to do?

Thanks!


notnew

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RE: Police Won't Enforce-Judge Won't Allow More Specific Schedule
« Reply #1 on: Apr 24, 2007, 05:50:31 AM »
appeal. Do you have an attorney?

If you have a record of the police refusing to enforce due to the vague wording, keep one. Keep track of times, officer names, badge numbers, dates.

Another jerk making decisions that affect people's lives with no regard for this fact.

The more I hear of the courts mismanagement of the family law system, the more disgusted I become with the whole system. It doesn't work for family law. It doesn't work for criminal law. It doesn't work for civil law. It just doesn't work. How broken do we have to be before a change comes about?

Arghhh.

You can file an exception or an appeal. There are specific steps you must take and that can change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. If you don't have an attorny, consult with one asap. You may only have a small window of time to file your objections.


Samson2005

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RE: Police Won't Enforce-Judge Won't Allow More Specific Schedule
« Reply #2 on: Apr 24, 2007, 07:07:05 AM »
The police told me that it is too vague, then wrote (3 reports out of 17 complaints) that the order needs to be revisited because it is so old. They also added that I was demanding that mom be arrested.

When In fact, I merely gave them copies of the visit order and (720 ILCS 5/10-5.5) Sec. 10-5.5. Unlawful visitation interference, and told them to enforce it.

Sec. 10-5.5 states: " (a) As used in this Section, the terms "child", "detain", and "lawful custodian" shall have the meanings ascribed to them in Section 10-5 of this Code.
    (b) Every person who, in violation of the visitation provisions of a court order relating to child custody, detains or conceals a child with the intent to deprive another person of his or her rights to visitation shall be guilty of unlawful visitation interference.
    (c) A person committing unlawful visitation interference is guilty of a petty offense. However, any person violating this Section after 2 prior convictions of unlawful visitation interference is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (d) ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WHO HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT A PERSON HAS COMMITTED OR IS COMMITTING AN ACT IN VIOLATION OF THIS SECTION SHALL ISSUE TO THAT PERSON A NOTICE TO APPEAR.

You know, it looks alot like the judges are pushing the people to rebel! Maybe they are activists.


""A scorpion, being a very poor swimmer, asked a turtle to carry
him on his back across a river.  "Are you crazy?" exclaimed the
turtle.  "You'll sting me while I'm swimming and I'll drown."

"My dear turtle," laughed the scorpion, "if I were to sting you,
you would drown and I would go down with you.
Now where is the logic in that?"

"You're right!" cried the turtle.  "Hop on!"  The scorpion
climbed aboard and halfway across the river gave the turtle a
mighty sting.  As they both sank to the bottom, the turtle
resignedly said:

"Do you mind if I ask you something?  You said there'd be no
logic in your stinging me.  Then why did you do it?"

"It has nothing to do with logic," the drowning scorpion sadly
replied.

"It's just my character.""


I have 2 days left to file for reconsideration.

mistoffolees

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RE: Police Won't Enforce-Judge Won't Allow More Specific Schedule
« Reply #3 on: Apr 24, 2007, 07:20:11 AM »
You have a number of choices.

You can appeal it. Likely to be expensive and time consuming.

or:

Go to the Police Chief and/or Mayor (or other elected official) and tell them that the judge says the ruling is clear and needs to be enforced. Give them the badge numbers of the person who refused to enforce it. If it says that transfers take place at Mom's at 5 pm Friday and home at 6 pm Sundays, then it looks like it's pretty clear.

Obviously, I recommend the latter - go up the ladder in the police organization - to the city officials, if necessary.

notnew

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RE: Police Won't Enforce-Judge Won't Allow More Specific Schedule
« Reply #4 on: Apr 24, 2007, 07:28:21 AM »
Well,

have you tried filing for contempt? If you go in for contempt, you can ask that the order be clarified and submit your "corrected" plan to the court that way.

How often does this happen?

The police do not like to get involved in these things.

It also may look bad that the police report says you were trying to have the other parent arrested even though you weren't.

I would file for contempt and perhaps even use the laws you detailed above to support your case.

However, you may not be able to make any headway with this at all and will need to decide when enough is enough and just accept whatever time you get with your kid.

I hate being so pessimistic, but my experience in the courts hasnt' been very NCP friendly. Also, my ex is a big liar and cries every time and they buy her crap over and over. I am so sick of hearing the crap she spews out that I would be happy to never see her in court or otherwise ever again!

BTW - I've seen my child one time in the last 7 months and talked about 5 times. This is a full blown alienation situation that I am just done with battling. When and if my child is ready, I will be there and my child knows this. Until them, I refuse to be abused by this situation any longer.

I hope you have a better outcome.


Samson2005

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RE: Police Won't Enforce-Judge Won't Allow More Specific Schedule
« Reply #5 on: Apr 24, 2007, 07:38:43 AM »
“If it says that transfers take place at Mom's at Friday and home at Sundays, then it looks like it's pretty clear.

That is the order that excludes me from extended weekends and is new (28 days old) The original order said after school every other weekend,

I WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO ENJOY EXTENDED WEEKENDS WITH MY DAUGHTER.

I think I will be in the clerks office tomorrow morning filing a reconsideration.

Samson2005

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Society can not stand up under this sort of abuse
« Reply #6 on: Apr 24, 2007, 07:53:10 AM »
Sorry to hear that NOTNEW.

I will be in the clerks office filing for reconsideration hopefully tomorrow.

After the judge cut our time down, he looked at me and said, "you can tell me in June if you want me to continue to micromanage your visitation."

I never said anything about micromanaging my visitation, I SAID I WANTED IT ENFORCED.

I agree that it looks bad that the cop wrote that I was demanding that mom be arrested when I was demanding the statute be enforced.

I guess they are just that dense. They can't decipher a visitation order or understand the statute that governs it....then the judge whittles my time down and threatens to do the same if I complain.


Samson2005

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RE: Society can not stand up under this sort of abuse
« Reply #7 on: Apr 24, 2007, 08:00:35 AM »
The judge threatened mom with "I will award him 2 weeks of make-up visitation if there is one bump in the road between now and june."

HOW IS THAT THINKING IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD??? USING THE CHILD AS A TOOL THE SAME AS MOM IS??

notnew

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RE: Society can not stand up under this sort of abuse
« Reply #8 on: Apr 24, 2007, 08:29:21 AM »
What is happening is the exact thing that happens with me all the time. The mother goes in and cries and lies and acts like I am just a rotten bastard who is harassing her all the time and that my child is terrorized of me which is NOT TRUE. She states clearly that she refuses to communicate with me but in the same breath, she also says I am a good father and a good man. She has also testifed under oath that she still loves me (gag) and tells our child so. Great way to screw up the kids mind. Act like you hate my guts and do everything to get in my way with the kid but profess to love me?

I come in with cold hard facts backed up by paperwork. What does it mean? Nothing.  I am convinved the judge had made his decision before he ever stepped foot in the courtroom the last day we were there. I lost a custody challenge with a custody evaluation recommending custody be transferred to me! How? With smoke and mirrors created by BM, attorney, and expert witness/counselor/liar. My child changed stories too after all the promises BM made along with no rules lifestyle being enoyed this very moment.

Now, I have to face the reality that my child most likely is smoking, drinking, involved in drugs already and could be sexually active at any time if not already. I know that my ex has told the child that as soon as the age of 16 is reached, she will allow the child to quit school. BM has sole custody so my rights other then paying $$$ have been terminated unlawfully. In my care, my child would have attended school regularly, been involved in extracurricular activities of her choice, been steered towards college and taught about accountability and responsibility. AND encouraged to have a loving relationship with the mother. These opportunities are, in my opinion, lost forever unless by some stroke of luck, some of what I was able to impart upon her before being ruined by my ex has stuck and comes out sometime in the future.

The courts see that the BOTH of us are equally responsible for not getting along. So, I get chastised for bringing her to court to demand my rights as a parent.

The judges make these important sounding statements to her about how if this happens one more time, the child is going home with dad and then it happens again, and they do nothing. I do not get hopeful anymore that they will actually enforce what they say to her.

Believe me, if it's not in the order, it doesn't matter. They want you to stop coming to court. The only way to do that is to give in to the hostile parent and give up your relationship with your child unless the hostile parent allows you to have a relationship. Oh yeah, be THANKFUL if you get any time at all too.

I would say to you that if your child is still young enough and you feel the relationship is salvagable and that the cause is still worth fighting for, go for it. But do keep in mind that there is a point for all involved where it is time to end the battle because the damage is just too great. Don't let it in effect, kill you (not literally you know). There comes a point where your own sanity is more important then the havoc that the ex is wreaking on everyone's lives.

It is sad that these hostile parents will use their own children to carry out these vicious acts. Even worse that the courts behave in the same manner.

You are right - Society is not standing up against all of this mess. There are so many wrongs in our reality right now that the best thing we as individuals can do is live as "right" as possible and try to counter the wrongs in our immediate environment. I believe things are going to get much worse before they get better but that discussion is for another type of board!

Good luck. You've got our prayers with you.

mistoffolees

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RE: Police Won't Enforce-Judge Won't Allow More Specific Schedule
« Reply #9 on: Apr 24, 2007, 08:58:52 AM »
>“If it says that transfers take place at Mom's at Friday and
>home at Sundays, then it looks like it's pretty clear.
>
>That is the order that excludes me from extended weekends
>and is new (28 days old) The original order said after school
>every other weekend,
>
>I WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO ENJOY EXTENDED WEEKENDS WITH MY
>DAUGHTER.
>
>I think I will be in the clerks office tomorrow morning filing
>a reconsideration.
>

You didn't say that.

As I understand the story now, you had an original order which you and/or your ex didn't think was clear. You went to the police and they agreed that it wasn't clear.

The judge said "OK, it's not clear, so here's the clear order and gave exact times and dates".

You have not tried to enforce the new (clarified) order.

All of that seems appropriate. Everyone agreed that the original order wasn't specific, so it was clarified. Now, if you try to enforce the new order and they won't do it, you might have an issue. Until that, it looks like you don't have a legitimate complaint against the police.

Your original post implied something very different.

As for filing for a reconsideration, you're of course free to do whatever you want, but plan on having it rejected. From reviewing the history, you've severely alienated the judge yet he gave you what you wanted (a clarified parenting plan) and told your ex not to violate it or she'd be in trouble. Now you're complaining again that you don't like what he did. Like it or not, alienating a judge is not a good thing to do - especially when they have unlimited discretion.

You really need to be working with an attorney. All you're accomplishing here is digging a hole for yourself, making yourself bitter, and getting your ex mad at you. And the kids get caught in the middle.

 

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