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Author Topic: EXTREMELY off topic and kinda personal......but.......  (Read 7469 times)

thairagain

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EXTREMELY off topic and kinda personal......but.......
« on: Feb 19, 2004, 05:39:28 AM »
I need some suggestions on how to either reach my dh on the topic of our finances or to either find a compromise somehow on this sensitive subject.


I am a planner; I have a one year spreadsheet depicting our incoming income and our outgoing bills each week for the next year.  In this budget I've budgeted $200 a week for groceries for a family of 5 and $75 a week for gas (dh works about 45 minutes away from home).  Those are the only two truely "unknown" expenses give or take a few dollars here and there for the phone and electric.  

The disagreement is this......on the spreadsheet I am showing that in March we will begin showing a negative income after bills are paid.  We have a $4000 tax refund.  I want to input the $4000 tax refund into the spreadsheet to help off set the negative which will begin in March.  DH wants to spend it on new mattresses, new stove, and new shower unit for the master bath.  His theory is two fold; he feels that we always use the tax refunds for bills and such and never reap the benefits of the "extra income".  He also is convinced that soon (don't know when and doesn't know how much) he will receive a raise from work.  Also, I do child care in my home and currently have 3 positions open which will net us additional money once they are filled.  He feels that since we will probably begin receiving extra income anyway w/in the next 2-4 weeks from either him or I, we should feel confident in spending the $4000 now and simply hope for the best.

I, on the other hand, feel we shouldn't "count the chickens before they hatch".  I want to hold off on spending the tax refund until the extra income ACTUALLY DOES come in.  I've told him of the negative income beginning mid-March and have asked him to physically look at the spreadsheet so he can see what I'm talking about.  He REFUSES!!!!!   Not only is the spreadsheet over his head, but he literally refuses to even try to understand it.  To me it's really quite simple, for example...

(Bogus numbers)
week 1- Income=$750, bills=$700, left over for the week $50

week 2- Income=$750+$50 (from previous week)=$800, bills=$500, left over for the week $300

week 3- Income=$750+$300 (from previous week)=$1050, bills=$500, left over for the week $550

week 4- Income=$750+$550 (from previous week)=$1300, bills=$1500, left over for the week -$200.

If dh does look at the spreadsheet, he will focus on the left over monies for the week and wonder why we have that money just sitting in the checking account not being used.  For example, on week 3, there is $550 left over for the week.  Dh doesn't understand that yes it's left over this week but next week in week 4 we need it to pay the morgtage that is due and that even then we would be $200 short.

I am at my wits end!!!!!!  Actually, I guess we are both at our wits end and frustrated w/ one another.  Does anyone have any ideas on how we can reach a compromise????  I am scared!  Years ago I gave up and let dh handle the finances......that was a total disaster.  Don't want to go there again......sigh.....

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated!

thair


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RE: EXTREMELY off topic and kinda personal......but.......
« Reply #1 on: Feb 19, 2004, 06:37:14 AM »
Hmmm....  I think showing cash flow by week is your problem because it creates the perception of extra money which isn't true.

Does he get paid by the week and that's why?

I'd show cash flow by month so that the overflow for one week disappears as it should be available to pay the bills which arrive the next week.

In our home, I split the bills according to paydays.  We get paid once a month from our retirement and he gets paid every other week.

So our once a month big bills are paid out of the retirement (house payment, child support, car payments, life insurance).

Then our other smaller bills are added together and divided in half (for the every other week payday).  IF by chance it falls that I don't pay at least half "out", then that money gets set aside -- just like in your example -- and gets taken OUT of the check book on paper.  Then for the next payday I add it back in to cover the bills.





thairagain

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RE: EXTREMELY off topic and kinda personal......but.......
« Reply #2 on: Feb 19, 2004, 06:48:43 AM »
Yes, we both get paid by the week.  I also use my spreadsheet to calculate my income for the end of the year taxes since I'm self employed.  So, it's important that I keep accurate records.

I've tried that concept of writing the money for the next weeks bills out of the check register.  Didn't work.....dh would see that the account showed $500, but register only showed $100 and would spend it anyway.  It became a journal nightmare.

I'll think about your suggestion about redoing the spreadsheet to show a monthly cash flow instead of weekly.  Maybe I could continue to use my current spreadsheet for my purposes, but import the info onto another spreadsheet which dipicts a monthly cash flow only.  Maybe that way it would be less confusing for dh.

Thanks,
thair

jilly

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RE: EXTREMELY off topic and kinda personal......but.......
« Reply #3 on: Feb 19, 2004, 08:12:04 AM »
Wow...ya'll are wayyyy to organized for me! I just flip a coin to decide who gets paid! LOL  (j/k)  Can you tell that budgeting is not my thing?!

thairagain

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RE: EXTREMELY off topic and kinda personal......but.......
« Reply #4 on: Feb 19, 2004, 08:32:21 AM »
LOL....neither is dh's!



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RE: EXTREMELY off topic and kinda personal......but.......
« Reply #5 on: Feb 19, 2004, 08:40:49 AM »
Wow, I thought I was the only anal woman with a spreadsheet depicting each week!  I feel soooo less freakish now!

Here's what my DH and I ended up doing...

We have checking accounts.  1-his, 1-mine, 1-ours.  His is his, mine is mine, and the the ours is for bills and groceries.

I total all bills for the month on a seperate spreadsheet, show total, halves, and weekly allotment from each (depending on 4 or 5 paydays in month).

DH deposits set amount each week in Joint account from his paychecks, then I pay all bills as they come up.

It works really well for us.  He has his money, I have mine, and the bills get paid with "ours".

------------------------------

With the tax return issue, I agree wholeheartedly with you.  2/3's of ours went to pay off DH's arrears (one of those instant one's from when they seperated), the remainder WAS going to go to "fun" in late spring when a couple other bills lightened up.

DH's motor blew on his truck last week, so ALL of it (and then some) is going to a new motor.

You never know what life will hit you with, and it's nice to have a cushion!

BETH

bananas

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hubby (huge vent)
« Reply #6 on: Feb 19, 2004, 09:37:19 AM »
It seems there are really two subjects in Thair's post:  One is about the finances and how to handle the tax return.  The other is about Thair's hubby's refusal to discuss/deal with the situation.  I kinda wanted to address the second issue because I am having the EXACT SAME PROBLEM right now with my hubby.  I try to talk to him about the taxes, finances, etc. but he won't talk to me about it!!  When I say that these things need to be discussed, he agrees, but says we don't need to discuss it right now.  And I am bad at financial planning too, so I don't even have a spreadsheet to confuse him with!

It appears that we will owe a few hundred dollars for our federal taxes this year.  I want to talk to him about how we're going to handle that, because we are BROKE right now.  I am considering bankruptcy, but this is another issues that hubby won't talk about.  "Not right now", he says.  Also, my hubby's son (age 24) is moving back here from another state at the end of May.  I want to talk about how we're going to handle stepson and his girlfriend staying here, e.g. how long they will be here, if we're charging them rent, will they sign a lease, etc.  My fear is that stepson will be here for ever and ever, because he's not motivated to do much.  It will come to a head, and my ultimatum will be "him or me".  I don't want it to come to that but if hubby refuses to discuss this with me, I don't know what will happen.

I think there are some other issues too:  For the past four years I have been working the day shift, as has my hubby.  About six weeks ago, I got transferred to the evening shift.  I only work four days a week, but hubby has gotten very clutchy and demanding since I have changed schedules.  He was dreading it before it happened, saying that we were never going to see each other.  We are missing out on four evenings a week now, but have more time together during the day than we did before.  But the other three evenings when I don't work, and during the days off we have together, we don't do anything.  One reason is because we're broke, but hubby just sits in front of the TV or computer.  

Yesterday was hubby's day off, so we spent the morning and early afternoon together.  Then I went to work, and left him $10 that I had left over from last week, so he could go to Subway for dinner.  This left me with $1 and some change.  He called me at work, and asked me to bring him dinner.  I told him I didn't have any money because I left it for him.  He then told me to come home, pick up the money, go get his dinner, and bring it back to him.  (I am a cop so I am out on the street.)  I told him that I wasn't going to do that because we were busy and I was riding with a partner.  (I'm not going to drag my partner all over creation to pick up dinner for hubby.)  I told him to take the money I left him and go get his own dinner, because that's what I left it for.  He whined that he didn't want to have to go get in the shower.  So I went without money during my shift for no reason.  He ended up making himself a tuna sandwich while my $10 sat on the counter.  I mean, am I being unreasonable for refusing to do this???

Hubby does this all the time... asks me to go pick up this or that while I'm working, when he is perfectly capable of doing it himself because he is sitting at home.  During my three days off, I clean, do laundry, dishes, etc.  I feel like I am doing everything and he does nothing.  Then, when he asks me to pick up his frickin' dinner for him when I am at work, that's just too much.  And it seems to have gotten worse since I am working eves.

The other day, I went to the grocery after dinner.  While I was gone, hubby made cookies.  I got home, we unloaded groceries, and hubby grabbed some cookies and a glass of milk.  He sat on the couch.  I sat on the couch too and drank the rest of my pop.  I got up to take my pop can out to the garbage.  No, we don't recycle.  Hubby handed me his glass too.  I put it on the table.  Hubby told me to rinse it out.  I told him I would.  I asked him if he wanted to watch a movie, and while I was putting the movie in, he asked me REPEATEDLY to rinse his glass out.  Finally, I just said "Will you shut up, please?"  (We never name-call or tell each other to shut up.  It just slipped out, but at least I added the "please".)  Then he said I was being too sensitive, and I said he was being too demanding, and he said no he wasn't.  So I said I wasn't being sensitive, and he said yes I was.  So I said, you're right, I'm wrong.  Fortunately we dropped it at that point and it didn't blow up.

So, I am really frustrated.  To top it all off, I went off Depo-Provera last fall and am just now starting to get my periods back.  I had two within the last three weeks.  But I don't really think all this stuff is due to my raging hormones.  I was thinking about making an appt with a therapist that I saw about a year ago for a few weeks when I was angry at pbfh and trying to get over it.  I dread being at home with hubby lately.  Yesterday I was so glad to go to work.  

Thanks for letting me vent.  Any constructive comments/suggestions are welcome.  Thanks to Thair for motivating me to post.

Peanutsdad

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RE: hubby (huge vent)
« Reply #7 on: Feb 19, 2004, 12:42:02 PM »
Just a few thoughts,,


No,, you are not being unreasonable thinking hubby oughta get his own damn dinner if he's sittin around the house while you are working. I'm sure the taxpayers of your city thank you hun LOL. No disparagement nor sarcasm,, just the facts ma'am ;)

One tool I found helpful for helping others see how they appear,, set up a tape recorder for the evening at home,, record all evening,, then play it back for both of you.. You might be surprised LOL. Then perhaps he gets to see his whiny side.


As far as bankruptcy,, I did this also,, just paying the interest on 28k of credit card debt was killin me back when I was married. If your credit card or unsecured debt is riding that high,, I'd say do it. If your debt load is 10k or under, I would advise you not to,, just make a tight assed budget, and stick to it for the 3 or 4 years it will take to pay it off.

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RE: EXTREMELY off topic and kinda personal......but.......
« Reply #8 on: Feb 19, 2004, 02:41:59 PM »
I had a big long response for you, because I totally empathize.  My husband and I have had very similar discussions about our financial situation.  After reading through, I decided that I can't give you much advice.  My husband has really taken it upon himself to curb his spending, to give me receipts when he does spend, and to accept my word for what is in our account (in the past we have had many, many discussions about not trusting what the ATM machine says....)  The only thing I really have to do is to keep our account up-to-date, and to not freak out when he wants to spend a little--or even a lot.  The not freaking out is the key in our financial relationship....

The best thing for us has been mutual patience.  When we moved, we gave away our sofa and loveseat, with the intention of buying a new couch when we got to our new home.  Finally we ended up at a furniture auction and got a set for $700 (valued at $2700.)  It was really pushing our account, I did not want it and was fine without a couch, but it was a great deal and my husband had been sitting on the floor for 7 months--that's patience....

Somehow my husband's attitude of "it will all work out fine" has worked most of the time for the past 4 years, but I think it works best in combination with my "don't count the chickens before they are hatched" attitude.  Does that make any sense???  Sorry not much advice here, but hope what I have said helps a little.

thairagain

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RE: EXTREMELY off topic and kinda personal......but.......
« Reply #9 on: Feb 19, 2004, 02:54:25 PM »
We have the separate accounts, but because we are currently showing negatives in the coming months, we can't at this time afford to divide everything up like that.  Besides if we did, then I would be the only one using the so called left over "my" money to help offset the negative bills.  Dh would happily spend "his" money on frivolous things, while I struggled trying to figure out how to pay the electric, phone, and/or mortgage for that month.  

Originally, dh and I had agreed that we would split the $4000 check.  He would get $2000 and I'd get $2000.  But when dh found out that I was simply going to put my half in the budget he became upset and demanded to know EXACTLY what I was spending my half on.  I tried to tell him that I could not tell him that x amount was going to this and "x" amount was going to that cause it was spread out over the next year to allow for expected negatives in the month of blah, blah, and blah.  I tried to get him to look at the spreadsheet so he could see what I was talking about, but he refused to even try, and accused me of hiding something.

I do everything I can to try to save money, but it's never good enough. The grocery store where I shop knows me as the coupon lady!  Last year at October,  I had told dh that all though the budget was tight, the bills were caught up and we were doing pretty good.   DH took that as meaning that we were doing really really great, so he spent over $200 on a bday present for me.  I was irritated, cause then I had to juggle the bills again to figure out how to pay them.   But the part that really irritated me was that after he spent that money, he blamed me repeatedly for our grocery budget being smaller than it had been!  GRRRRR.  Then he did it again at Valentines Day.  We had also rec'd about $700 from state.  Unfortunately, when it came in, I was sick.  By the time I could hold my head up from being so ill, dh had spent about $700 that week on groceries (including taking the kids out to dinner a couple of times) AND bought me another present worth over $200!!!  I love the present, but that is the amount we are now short for the month of March.  Dh just doesn't understand that what you do today affects what you are able to do tomorrow......sigh.....I feel as if I'm beating my head against a wall, and fighting a loosing battle.

We also have about $11,000 in debt that we need to get paid that is not even included into the budget.  At this rate it will never be included!  I just want to give up!

thair

Kitty C.

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Thair, I hate to tell you this.............
« Reply #10 on: Feb 19, 2004, 02:59:54 PM »
..but I don't think this is a finance issue, but a control issue with your husband.  And as blatantly as he refuses to acknowledge what's going on, I don't think any amount of talking on your part is going to change his mind.  Right now, the only thing I can think of is counseling, but other than that, hitting the skids financially may be the only way he will 'wake up' to the truth.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

thairagain

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you are welcome....
« Reply #11 on: Feb 19, 2004, 03:46:20 PM »
My dh used to be that bad, but he has become better so I guess I shouldn't complain.  Now he will at least "discuss" the bills, but will not accept my answers.  

For example, he may say "thair, do we have enough in the budget to purchase a new so and so?".  

Then I will say, "Not this week but maybe in about 3 weeks we can."

dh.."Why not?  I noticed the ATM receipt said that we had enough and then some!"

me..."Because what is currently showing will be used for xyz bill in 2 weeks."

dh..."but I don't understand it.  It's there, why can't I spend it, now and then we can replace it when it comes time to pay the bill?"

me..."There isn't any extra money coming in between now and then to "replace" it.  Why don't you look at the budget so I can show you what bills need to be paid w/in the next few weeks so you will understand."

dh..."No!!!  Just give me a "yes or no" answer!"

sigh....and the whole conversation starts over again till someone gets frustrated and walks away.

Anyway....I agree w/ peanuts.  You were right in saying no to going to get your dh's lunch.  If I were you, I wouldn't leave him anymore money to "go out" and eat if he is going to be home all day.  Just make sure that the fridge and pantry are filled so he can't say that he didn't have anything to eat!  You're dh sounds as if he may be depressed or something.  You may want to suggest counseling.

Good luck to you.

thairagain

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RE: EXTREMELY off topic and kinda personal......but.......
« Reply #12 on: Feb 19, 2004, 04:03:30 PM »
thanks, for your response.  At least I don't feel so very alone.

You right.....somehow things do always work out....but I loose many hours of sleep in the meantime.  Plus the kids are getting tired of chicken and the various foods that can be made w/ hamburger meat! lol

thair

thairagain

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RE: Thair, I hate to tell you this.............
« Reply #13 on: Feb 19, 2004, 04:08:52 PM »
That is interesting, but I couldn't tell from your post if you are suggesting that I'm trying to control him or that he is trying to control me.  Either way I realize that it would be a problem since no one likes to be controled by another.

thair

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RE: EXTREMELY off topic and kinda personal......but.......
« Reply #14 on: Feb 19, 2004, 04:14:30 PM »
Has he ever heard of checks that haven't cleared so that the balance that shows isn't a TRUE balance?

Oh dear,

Then I have another suggestion...

Take your bills and I'm gonna guess that the HOUSE payment is really the only one you'll need to do this with....and write TWO checks for the house payment to "eliminate" that huge amount of extra cash that needs to be available at the end of the month.

Write a check against a number.  (and hang on to it until the end of the month.)  Maybe if he sees an outstanding check that hasn't cleared yet he will understand?

Maybe your mortgage company will let you make bi-weekly payments on your mortgage instead of monthly payments?  (this also means you make 13 payments per year instead of 12 and you'll save TONS of money over the years).

He's got to understand what's going on before he'll change his habits.

thairagain

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Well.....we "hit the skids" financially......so now for the time
« Reply #15 on: Feb 19, 2004, 06:31:10 PM »
being we will not be making any new major purchases.

I was really sick today and called the parents of whom I care for their children this morning to tell them I couldn't watch their kids for today.  I went to the doctor and I have strep throat.  I usually call in only maybe about once a year, but this is my second time so far this year and it's been w/in a month.  One of the children's mother told me this evening when I called her to tell her that I had strep and would not be able to watch kids again tomorrow, told me that she had decided to put her child into daycare.  So there goes that weekly income of $110!  I have other children to care for so I still have income, but it was just bad timing.  Anyway, I'll put an ad in the paper next week and will probably be able to fill the spot plus the 3 infant positions available for a potential income of about $500 more a week.  Until then, I told dh tonight that we absolutely could not afford to make any major purchases until I am able to get my income level back up to it's acceptable level.  He humbly agreed........sigh......

Thank God we have that $4000 check to compensate until the income gets back to normal!  Otherwise, we would have been in major trouble!

Thank you all for your responses.

thair

Kitty C.

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Sorry I didn't make myself clear........
« Reply #16 on: Feb 20, 2004, 08:40:36 AM »
But it's always been my opinion that people who put their heads in the sand have serious control issues.  And his blatant refusal to even learn what's going on says a lot to me........
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

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Another technique
« Reply #17 on: Feb 20, 2004, 11:46:13 AM »
thought about you this morning.

Use envelopes and take the money OUT of the checking account and put it physically into the envelopes.

Make one for each monthly bill.

Then he won't SEE the money in the account and you'll still have it set aside for when the bill is due.

A money order at Walmart here in town costs 46 cents....might be worth it for the sake of peace of mind?

For example, you get paid weekly.

Your mortgage is $800 per month.

Take $200 per week and put it into the envolope and out of the checking account and by the end of the month, you've got it together and he hasn't spent it because it's THERE.

thairagain

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WHEW!!!!
« Reply #18 on: Feb 21, 2004, 07:39:48 AM »
Thought you were meaning me! lol  Of course, it is something that I hear from dh all of the time (that I control him), so from an "outside source" it would have made me sit up and take more notice!

I don't want to control "him"; I just want the spending to be more controled!  I was so irritated at him last night.  The other night when he supposedly conceded to not purchasing new mattresses, it was just to keep a discussion from starting because he was tired.  He told me last night that he still wants to buy new mattresses at the very least! GRRRRR.....again I explained that my income had just dropped unexpectedly and until I was able to replace it, I could not agree.  He continued to insist that he didn't understand and demand what I was spending the money on.  I finally told him that I was tired of trying to explain it w/ words when they obviously weren't good enough and that if he wanted any further explanations all he had to do was look at the budget!  He was quite angry w/ me!  Every few minutes he would say "well what about buying so and so....or what about doing this...."  I would calmly reply...."DH...look at the budget; your answers are there."

Dh isn't speaking to me today.....sigh....FINALLY SOME PEACE AND QUIET! lol

 

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