PAS and HAP going on....

[TJRodolph]

8 yr old child lives in OH with custodial mom. My husband and I live in MN. My husband and CM never married, problems with PAS/HAP and visitation ever since child was born. CM moved to OH when child was 4 (a month after she found out I was in dad's life) without court order or dad's consent and denied all visitation for 3 years till we finally got a specific parenting time order. We have done everything pro se as we cannot afford a lawyer. CM still does not abide by court order. both parties were ordered to pay 1/2 of every plane ticket, she has never paid and we have paid entire tickets. last Christmas we bought whole ticket and then she didnt put him on the plane. She had a lame excuse. She changed his school and doctors and would not give the information. We took her to court for custody reversal based on continuous denial of visitation, unstable home life, and doing poorly in school with major emotional and behavior problems. Judge reemed her, told her to give dad ALL the information he requested and that she better start paying 1/2 the tickets.....reserved the custody reversal until dad received all the info from mom and that he could file an amended motion at that time. Judge also ordered that we utilize a Parenting Time Expeditor.

CM finally sent the information, on the last day of her timeline, answered 1/2 the questions....sent her a letter demanding ALL answers or would file contempt. She supplied rest of info.

Just bought the summer plane ticket and she won't pay her 1/2 AGAIN. She called the Expeditor and said she cannot afford it, can't afford to pay anything for any ticket till next year.  (rolling my eyes). We can't afford it either, we have 3 other children and my husband makes less money than she does. So we are filing a motion to modify child support based on mom's steadfast refusal to pay her court ordered transp costs, which is equivalent to an increase in her child support award. Of course the CM says she needs every penny of the child support so she does not want her child support reduced. UGH!

Anyhow.....sorry for the long post....my question is.....what do you tell an 8 yr old boy.....when his mom tells him he can't go see his dad because dad bought the wrong ticket? We bought that ticket 3 months in advance and the court order says for dad to make the arrangements and for mom to make arrangements to get kid to airport and back....(she complained saying she had no one to take him to the airport and she had to work). So the kid is mad at dad and told his therapist at school that his dad cancelled his trip. Mom has even given some story to the school staff about dad to try and interfere with his cooperation with them. She is mad because she thinks we are out to make her look like an unstable, unfit, and abusive mother. She gets highly defensive and takes no responsibility, turning all blame on dad. We just want her to play fair, and abide by the court order and stop putting the kid in the middle of her anger.

The kid had a scratch on his face and I asked him how he got that....and he said "I cant tell you...you might tell the judge" and then when we tell him about his other siblings (step-siblings) or his step grandmother....he says his mom told him he has no other family other than his family in OH and his dad. We tell him he has two families, and he should feel real lucky that he has so many people that love him. But he looks so puzzled. We know the mom is telling conflicting stories on purpose.

So what is the best approach to deal with this? We don't want the kid thinking dad is to blame for all this.....he has enough emotional abuse going on at home already.

[4honor]

1. I am sorry you didn't receive the whole truth.

2. She must have been mistaken, because I..... (fill in the blank)

3. Family is not about the blood in your veins, but  the love in your heart.

3a. (For Step mom) She may have carried you in her body, but I carry you in my heart.)

4. Sometimes when people get upset they say things they don't mean or things that aren't all true... I am sorry your mother has been upset lately.

5. I wonder where she got that idea. We ...  (fill in blank)

6.  I assure you I have never (Or I Always) ... (fill in the blank.)

Now, grow thick skins. You are in for some massive abuse at the hands of BM and the child. Alienation causes a child to "make the most of the situation they are in" because they feel you are unwilling/unable to rescue them. If they side with you (no matter what they beleive is right) then they are betraying someone who can make their life a living hell. It is not worth the risk in their minds.

Now, draw a line of demarcation. Do not allow the child to push you over the line and farther away. Stand your ground. Love him unconditionally even when he is spewing venom.

File contempt. BM not sending the child and failing to pay her portion of transportation is a basis upon which to file. Don't give up.

[TJRodolph]

Thanks for all the info! We thought about filing contempt....but was told it is VERY hard to prove that she WILLFULLY disobeyed the orders. By her saying she "just cannot afford it" isn't considered willful, it's considered doesn't have the means. We know the real deal, that its just an excuse. Also, if we filed contempt, she'd get a free lawyer and we can't afford one. There are a few other minor areas she is contempt on also, which we COULD prove....such as the order states for her to provide us the grandfathers phone number since the kid routinely spends the night there. She refuses, and we have it in writing. She claims her father doesn't like dad (they've never met or spoken) based on mom's stories she has told him and doesn't want him calling his house. I know, another excuse, because if dad were able to call kid at that house, then mom wouldn't be able to listen in on the conversation. Our concern is, sometimes several days up to a week go by where dad can't get ahold of the kid. He leaves voicemails at mom's....but she doesn't have the kid call back timely, as she works 12 hour shifts at night, sleeps during the day and then the kid is sometimes at grandpa's for 4 days in a row. And even when they do get to talk on the phone, its as if the kid is distracted, and they can never talk about anything important, just "hows the weather" type of things.

Same with not putting the kid on the plane. She works a graveyard shift, claims she started a new job again and in a probationary period, and it was New Years Eve....she couldn't get anyone to work for her and no one would pick up the kid from the airport. That was her excuse even though she had a 90 day notice of the dates and times of flight. She wanted dad to pay a $100 change ticket fee and put the kid on a connecting flight that would involve getting him up at 3am. No way, we weren't doing that, not putting an 8 yr old with behavior problems on a connecting flight, that early in the morning, nor paying the fee to change the ticket for HER convenience. She didn't even offer to pay for the fee. So she told the kid that dad bought the wrong ticket and won't change it. So the kid felt that dad cancelled the trip and was very upset, so upset the school teachers even mentioned it in their letters. CM got the teacher and therapist to write letters to judge, saying what a wonderful, concerned, and involved parent she was, and that she should keep custody of kid, blah blah blah. Mind you, NONE of them have ever spoken or met dad. We have since sent emails and a letter explaining the situation, asking for suggestions in helping Isaiah cope.....so maybe they understand a little better what is going on. THe last school was so alienated against us, that they wouldn't cooperate with us getting records or anything. They out right lied and said they had no idea what school he was transferred to, and the main admissions office claims he was not enrolled in ANY of their public schools. WHich we know now that was a lie, because he is in a public charter school in their district. CM has asked the new school to provide her with copies of whatever dad requests, so she can show the court (her exact words) and that the school is well aware of him accusing her of being an abusive, unstable and unfit mother and trying to take her child away from her (exact words again). The new school has copied CM on everything they have sent us....so that part is obviously true. The school therapist has not responded on the comment we made that we think the CM exhibits alot of signs of the HAP and what can we do to help Isaiah with that....I bet they won't respond to that either because CM has them brainwashed already. She is very convincing at first, crying the broke single mother trying to do the best for her kids. But then she moves. SHe has had 13 different addresses in the past 8 years.

When we were in court in March....the judge really got on her case, had to raise her voice several times. CM kept trying to cut off the judge. And CM showed up wearing hospital scrubs! lol. Anyhow, it is quite clear the judge is very annoyed by CM....who will have to explain how she paid for her own ticket to come to court yet again rather than pay her $200 toward the kid's ticket. I know I would rather pay the $200 than face the judge again knowing she doesnt like me already.

I think I am finally developing that thick skin, as I have concluded that CM has a mental disorder of some sort. I just feel really bad for the kid. He is a grade behind for his age (at kindergarten, mom claimed he didnt know his ABC, colors, pretty much nothing at all....those were her exact words). Then he was put in special ed for kids with severe emotional disturbances, was labeled with ADHD, and has a speech impediment. I think his emotional issues have caused his behavior issues (he has done things like urinated on another boy in school, called the teacher a Bytch, gets in fights, crawls under tables, disrupts the class with constant moving and talking, won't try to learn, etc), which has impacted his ability to learn. period. The kid gets the belt for every little infraction, he's getting PASd, he's been moved around alot during his entire life - no stability, living between mom and grandpa (who also hits him with a belt), and mom has been super strict with him, not letting him go places to have fun, didn't socialize him much as a small child, etc. Oh, and the mom was reported for child abuse by her own school district, but claims it was unfounded. Of course she moved the kid from that school district right away. Mom has stated this in court papers....but that it was all TOTALLY unfounded and that kid has NEVER been abused, etc.

and she blames DAD for the kid's bad behavior because dad has not been a constant in his life...Can you believe that?! It was proven in court that she denies visitation, moved without a court order which has limited visitation AND that she denied ALL contact for 3 years! Only someone who is insane could possibly actually believe that. That's why I say I have concluded she is just insane and full of anger.

[mango]

We had same sort of problems with tickets. I will say that Southwest airlines you can change flights without fees. If you miss a flight you can use the lost funds for another flight. It's ideal for this type thing. Plus you can get Rapid Rewards for the flights, and get a few freebies.

As far as her not getting him to the airport, can't gramps do it.

i would get with the child's school counselor and see if there is something y ou can do. Maybe an investigation. Tell them your concerns.

Where in Ohio. I'm in Ohio. Just curious.

[MixedBag]

been changing DH and SS's tickets this year on-line quite easily with no assistance needed from a person at Southwest.

They ALSO twice in the past now have gone above and beyond what is required when we had two different emergencies.

See, once the plane is in the air, they're not supposed to confirm or deny WHO is on that plane.

Back in 2000, when OSD left her mother's to go to her dad's, the plane left late and we were totally worried she wouldn't make her connection.  Soutwest worked with us on the phone and looked into it -- and sure enough, her connection was late too.

Now in May 2006, when SS came here, Dad got stuck in a traffic jam on the interstate.  He left with plenty of time to spare, BUT not 5 miles outside of town, the interstate was a parking lot.  By the time he got to where he got a signal, he had an hour to drive, and the plane was gonna land in 45 minutes.....not cool.  I got through to Southwest, who let a gate person know that SS was getting off (after 11pm) and dad was gonna be late.  Gave them Dad's cell phone number.  Well, dad got off the airport exit as the plane was on final approach....and everything went well.....BUT they assisted and didn't HAVE to.  

[TJRodolph]

Dayton, Ohio. Southwest doesn't have non-stop flights to Minneapolis. Only Northwest does.

A reasonable person would assume that Gramps could take the kid to the airport, especially since he and the mom live FIVE minutes from the airport. It was just an excuse to not send the kid.

We have since been back to court and the judge flat out told mom that it was HER responsibility to make arrangements for the child to get to and from the airport. She then stated that she CAN reverse custody based on denial of parenting time.

We did get the child for spring break and now summer break. He goes back to Ohio in one week.

The mom however still refuses to pay her 1/2 of the airfare as court ordered. Claims she cannot afford it. She has never paid toward the airfare. And she makes about $6 an hour more than dad, and is the one who moved out of state without court order. We just went to court a few weeks ago and asked the magistrate to lower child support to compensate for mom's steadfast refusal to pay her share of airfare. Still waiting for the court's decision, he said it would come in the mail in about another week or so.

[MixedBag]

good luck!

DH's original divorce was from that area and Greene County ordered an adjustment downward to CS because he was paying transportation.

[TJRodolph]

Well, the court order is thru Minnesota. Soc suggested we try to lower child support first....if that doesn't work, then we will go for contempt. We can prove contempt as the judge reminded her last time that she had to pay her share, and that if she can't she needed to file a motion to address that issue. She never filed a motion and she never paid her share. She wrote an affidavit that said she hasn't filed a motion because she cannot afford to pay the filing fee. (she always has an excuse for everything) But I don't think slapping her with contempt is going to make her start paying her share. I am more hoping that child support is reduced.

[thesmithfamily_5]

Really makes you want to only buy the one way ticket, doesn't it!!!! Then she HAS to pay her 1/2 to get the kid back!!!

But then again, I'm sure this violates her rights... somehow....

[TJRodolph]

 We had thought about requesting each party having to get their own one way ticket for the child.....but a one-way costs more than a round trip ticket.

We are filing a motion soon, a motion to clarify. That way, the pbfh will have to appear personally and try to explain herself again to the Referee who is already agitated with her, AND I should be able to file contempt on her next time she doesn't pay.

[TJRodolph]

Oh, the Magsitrate that heard the case for reducing the child support to compensate for pbfh's failure to pay her share of transportation costs....denied. It was quite clear this Magistrate was all for the poor single mother. His court order stated  how my husband got his child support reduced 2 years ago and the court showed no just cause for doing so. Well yes it does! That old order stated it was because mother couldn't prove she still had child care costs, so the child care portion was reserved. Then the order noted how husband got his interest stayed on his arrears. Well duh, a new MN Statute says that if the non-custodial parent has made at least 12 consecutive monthly payments, the interest can be stopped. And then he further mentions how the old order says there is a remedy of having arrearages reduced if mother doesn't pay. However, he did not comment in the new order that the last order in March 06 says "it is not the court's intention to allow mother the option of not paying her share and her share just coming off the arrears. If she cannot afford to pay, she needs to file a motion." Leppanen really had to keep pbfh in place during the hearing. She was really frustrated with her and all her "tongue lashing" was directed to pbfh.

At least by filing a motion to clarify, everyone will be back in front of Referee Leppanen, who hopefully will be tired of the pbfh's total disregard to her order she issued.....and come up with a permanent resolution.

[marisalimbo]

My husband has 4 children from a previous marriage that we love dearly.  We rellocated to Texas from Southern California because the cost of living was ridiculous.  It has been over a year now and my husband has only seen his children twice.  Once when my parents paid to fly them out here over Christmas and another time when I surprised him with a flight to California because he was so depressed because of his relationship with his children.  He pays over half of his paycheck out in support.  The courts expect him to pay for gas, rent, food and tickets to see his children with $1400.00 a month.  That is all he gets after the government, insurance and his ex take their portion.  His ex gets his tax returns as well because every month he is falling behind by $500.  When she got his tax return this year, my husband requested that she pay for at least half of the tickets for them to come out here.  She refused and said it was his responsibility and she will go to court to get more money from him . . . . you know what? She did.  He is now set even HIGHER and falls behind even more!! We have a newborn son and his support has not lowered yet.  It is such a pathetic system and my husband has to listen to his children tell him that mom says you don't want to see us.  It is sick.  There is nothing you can do but sit on the side lines and hope that one day they will see that your husband did whatever he could to make his life better.  We send his kids little packages at least once a month.  Sometimes there are toys, other times when we have no cash whatsoever, there is just candy.  They have annual passes to Disney Land and Raging Waters that their 'mom' bought them and they enjoy going with mom and her new fiance.  She gets support from her first husband, second husband (mine), and her new fiance and gets to keep her paycheck, too.  Meanwhile she tries to get every last penny. It is such a sad situation because in the long run, the children suffer and the relationship with their father is absent.  I hope it all works out for you.  It is very frustrating.  I don't think there is anything you can tell his son except reassure that you all love him.  One day, he will appreciate and understand the circumstances.

[TJRodolph]

Sounds like you guys are in a pretty rough spot yourself. But the courts look at it like dad is the one who decided to move, so the courts usually make the person who moved away pay for all the travel. But not always. In our case, the mother moved away, but court ordered both to pay 1/2. I think they did that because it took almost 3 years before my husband actually filed a motion in court. In their eyes they think that means he was ok with the move. In actuality, it was because he didn't know the 1st thing about legal procedures or have the money to file or get a lawyer.

Yep, a lot of custodial mother's get the sweet end of the deal. But not all. I am a custodial mom of 3 kids from my previous marriage, divorced him 11 years ago and he owes me about $40,000 in arrears. Never paid, its like he vanished off the face of the earth, changes jobs, uses fake social security number, etc. And he lives in a different state. He has not seen or talked to the kids in 11 years. So while I do not have to deal with the drama of the ex, I also get no financial support at all. However we just found out he is in jail in Texas, and will be expedited end of Nov to New Orleans to face parole violations there. figures! I'll never get any child support for sure now.

If you go in front of the judge again, they are going to tell your husband to move back to CA if he wants to avoid paying the travel costs and that way he can see the kids more.

It just really sucks when the exs cannot get along for the kids sake. It is very selfish. It takes two to cooperate, but only one to make cooperation unsuccessful.