Alienation

[Txtwostepper]

Is there anyone out there who's fought PAS (parental alienation syndrome) legally? How did you do it?  What were your results? Was it worth it for you?

WIth Gratitude,
Txtwostepper

[joni]

PAS is not a recognized psychological theory.  Relatively new concept, about 10 years, it is often not welcomed with open arms by the family court.  Some judges have been known to put their fingers in their ears while yelling "I can't hear you" when it's mentioned during a motion.

I believe it exists in many ways, shapes and forms.  With any motion, it's all about how you "spin" the words.  Instead of stating that a parent has "Parental Alienation Syndrome" it's better to say that the parent feels an abnormal sense of  "entitlement" to the child and disrespects and fails to nuture the relationship with the other parent.

Get it?

[Txtwostepper]

Thank you! That was exactly what's she's telling us and doing with her actions! Mind if I use that phrase? And do you have to go back to court for this or can you just make  a contept complain to the court? We have it written in the agreement that they are both to refrain from any disparaging or misaligning behavior in front of the children. I'm not sure if this qualifies. I've also read that the courts will send out a court appointed social worker to interview the children and parents for such behaviors. Is this common or a long shot?

With Gratitude,
Txtwostepper

[joni]

darlin' you can go to court or file a motion and talk out of the side of your ass....it don't matter.  that's the point, you got to move away from the he said/she said and focus on the facts and issues.....otherwise, you're wasting your time....a judge won't listen to this stuff without 3rd party witnesses....like therapists or teachers or friends.

looks like you're headed for psych evaluations....that would be the only way to show any damage with mental abuse.

You need to google "entitlement"...you'll have tons of crap to throw in a motion for  that, for example:

http://www.horut-shava.org.il/legistlation/doctrine/primary_parent_presumption.htm

[Txtwostepper]

Would it matter that we have a lot of abusive emails from her stating that she will continue to do what she can to make sure their father is unimportant in their lives? The court agreement said that they weren't allowed to talk to each other unless in writing and the judge agreed that email was "in writing" so aside from a few phone calls (which we have record off through our cell bills) where we had to hang up on her because she was being so abusive, most of it is in writing. She talks often of her decision to hender the father child relationship.

[joni]

What an idiot.  She's a loose cannon.  I'd think that would be a great start/proof to get psych evaluations done on her.  If you don't file something using what evidence you do have and continue to let this happen, the court may perceive that you didn't take it so seriously.  So, I think you have to strike while the iron is hot.

[msme]

what county you are in??? We are in Wichita County.

Good luck & God bless.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[Txtwostepper]

We are in Tarrant County but .....
the court orders were drawn in Brazos county where she was until half way through the procedures before she moved to Houston which is where she is now except a different part from ANOTHER move, whatever county that is.

Do you have to file through a lawyer or can you just ask the court directly for an evaluation. We tried to ask for one during the procedures on her because she sent us a suicide note but her lawyer faught it and got the good old boy judge to overlook it.

We feel so defeated, I'm not sure I want to keep fighting something that seems so impossible to win.

Txtwostepper

[onedaddy]

Absolutely!

We let lots of things go!  We figured we were just in court 2 months ago and couldn't afford to keep taking off work and paying lawyers for a slap on the wrist.  When she finally took us to court with a whole lotta lies stating she wanted joint custody changed to full sole custody we brought forward all of our proof from the past 8 months and the GAL couldn't help but wonder why WE hadn't taken any action.  I think at the beginning it may have hurt us a bit.  But 7 months into the custody battle the GAL is on our side and most importantly so is the evaluator.
The evalutor sat down and listened to all of our tape recordings and our 100's of pages of proof we provided to back up our 14 page 2 year chronology of this nut.
Document and use it.  It doesn't help to have the proof if your the only one who sees it.

[MixedBag]

You're better off in court when you show that the mom hasn't complied with the order as opposed to alienating the kids against the dad.

If she's working to do whatever it takes to interfere with dad (and his time), that should get you further in court than all the psych evals about what's going on emotionally and stuff.

File in the county that still has jurisdicition over everything.  Might be that the whole thing has to be moved first to follow her if neither of you live in the original county anymore.

Good luck...

(BTW -- thoroughly READ the articles on PAS on this site.  It's tough to prove and many (too many) people jump quickly to call the behavior PAS -- which is why I suggest the other route.....interference with the court order that's in place).

[mango]

Seems to me that no matter how much you prove that PAS exists, courts still don't see it as a serious threat. From whta I can tell they slap the parent on the hand and say work it out.

Unless the other parent is on drugs, or in jail, or there is physical abuse, i think the result would still be a 50/50 plan and maybe some counseling thrown in there.

They never want to take a child away from a parent, unless it's "life threatening".

Just seems a waste of time.

I would shoot for a court order for family counseling instead.