Joint custody, but my ex refuses me the children!!!

[Cher]

My ex and I have been divorced for a few yrs now. He still holds a lot of anger and it is upsetting the children. I had to move out of town, but tried to keep contact with my children-

He will not allow them to call, I have no school photos, no teacher names, nothing. I just got back in town and called them...they were so happy and couldn't wait to see me, but he said no!!!

Our divorce papers state joint custody and when I was out here prior, I had them on weekends when they were free, but even then he wouldn't let them call me! He would threaten child support and be very mean. I was stupid and just wanted to see them, so I went by what he said (Mostly) :0  I didn't want to upset the children. When I left, my ex cried even though he had a new girl! He tried & tried to get me back, but I had stopped loving him...now he is just bitter.

Anyway, he went down and filed for child support a few days ago, like he threatened, but I will pay it. My biggest problem is that I trusted him and believed that he wouldn't keep the kids from me and now he is.

I have been back in town for a week or so and he says that I will see them when or if his schedule opens up! He called me names and screamed in front of the boys. The whole telephone call upset me. I did not yell back. I just told him that he could not keep me from seeing them and he said that he'd call the police if I came over!

I have always been a good mother, home room mom, everything!

He was decent to me on the phone at xmas, but since I am back in town, he refuses for the children to see me! He says he has a new life and girl and that he doesn't want me to come and mess it all up. I do not want to go over there with the police; I feel it is in bad judgement and would upset the children.

What can I do? I want to see them, NOW!!! They have a b-day in a few weeks and I want to spend it with them. If we have joint custody, isn't he in contempt? I should never allowed them to live with him after the divorce, but I asked them and that is what they wan't. I was working and he was home crying, telling them 'mommy doesn't love me and is leaving'...

I figured if I stayed in their lives it would be ok, but he won't let me! I am so stupid!!! I should NEVER have believed or trusted him.

[Cher]

p.s.


When I lived out her before, he moved in with his new g/f and never told me! He would bring the boys over, so I never knew. I would call and get no answer or his mom would yell at me and tell me to stop harrassing her! (Yes, when we divorced he went home to mommy)

Anyway, the children finally let it slip and told me...'we live there!' when I passed this street. I was like, what? I never told him that they told me, but asked if he had moved and if I could have the address & #...he told me, ' Here is my beeper, as long as you can get a hold of me there, you do not need the home # or address'

I got it from the children. He cannot do these sorts of things! One of the children broke their wrist and he never told me. I am going to go to legal aid and get proper visitation written up and demand these things:

To be told of a move or if they go out of town.

To be informed of p/t conferences and report cards.

School pics

Every other weekend, some holidays and summer days.

They are going to be allowed to call me anytime w/o getting in trouble.

To be put on the emergency list a school.

He does none of these things! I have no idea how he enrolled them in school before the divorce; his name is not on the b certificates and I had to enroll them, but before the divorce, he switched their school and I had no idea!!!

He says that if they want to spend the night, I have to call and ask, they cannot ask me! That is what he did prior, now he just refuses all together.

One of his excuses was that they were aloowed to plat Final Fantasy on Playstation and I was a bad mother for that! When we were married, they had every game out!!! His new g/f is behind that, I'm sure. They told me that she said she was a better mom than me. :(

They told me they loved me and that she was mean and mean for saying that. I never bad mouth him to the children.

They never call and have only called once since 99 and got in trouble for it! I am so sick of this. I should of been a lot harder with my ex, but didn't want the kids to see us fighting. I guess I just gave in and when xmas came around and he brought them over late in the day, after he was done with them...I was just thankful to see them and became a chicken sh^%$.

I haven't had them any morning on any holiday since 1999.  

Like I said, when we first split up, he came around a lot, asking mre back and even with his new g/f, he said he wanted me back, but promised her he wouldn't leave because her last man did that; he got back with his ex.  I kept saying 'no'.

Then he turned angry, refuses a relationship with my daughter (We got together when I was 5 mo pregnant) She called him dad til we split. She was 8. He got mad and wouldn't allow her at the kids b-day party! Those are her siblings! She came with me and the boys with him. A bad mistake on my part.

So...that is where I am at this point. It broke my heart when he said they couldn't see my daughter and I...they were so happy that I was back in town for good. I told them I was coming as well, so they knew ahead of time.

My poor babies! I have joint custody and visitation was to be determined between both parents!


:( :( :(

[janM]

You need a proper parenting plan in place, so that if he goes against it, he is in contempt.

1. Read all the articles on this site. There are sample parenting plans there.

2. Find out if you can legally tape phone conversations in your state. Read the articles on that, and on documentation. Write down every conversation and denial. If you do attempt to see them, take a witness and/or a recorder (video or audio). Getting him on tape screaming in front of the kids would speak volumes. You can not really prove contempt, just that he won't facilitate visits.

3. Contact the school(s) and get the info right from them. They have to oblige unless you are forbidden by court order to get them.

Sometimes custody is reversed for the kind of denial of a relationship and PAS that is going on there.

You should speak with an attorney. Many will offer a low cost or free consultation. Legal aid does not usually handle custody cases. See if there is a standard visitation form at your county courthouse or online, and you may be able to file it yourself.

[dsm]

First of all, JanM makes very good points that you should follow - read the articles on parenting plans, FERPA laws, etc.  If you need help finding them let me know - but get into reading, reading, reading.

Second, you know what school they are enrolled in, yes?  And since you are in the same town again as they are, you do not need to have your ex put you on the forms or give you the teachers' names.....YOU MAKE YOURSELF KNOWN TO THE SCHOOL - GO THERE  AND TALK WITH THEM YOURSELF, fill out the forms, get the calendars, become a room mom again, get involved any way you can.   Clear it to spend lunches with your kids.  Find out when field trips are scheduled and then chaperone.  What about programs at school?  Yep - you'll want to be there too.

Third, get a reply motion set for your child support hearing.  I know that child support and visitation are separate things, but you can get the ball rolling.  Legal aid may not be able to do anything for you....but it's worth a shot - they may be able to shoot you in a direction of a lawyer who will work with you on payments or that you can use to bounce ideas off of.

Is there nothing that states anything specific about when you get time with your kids?   Be prepared and plan for a reunification plan if you have had limited contact with them since 1999 (which your posts sound like you have not seen them very much).

For the kids' bday party.....I would not plan to attend or plan a party together with your ex - plan a separate one - and absolutely you should be able to have your daughter there - she is your sons' sister FCOL.  And if it doesn't get worked out for this round....then you send them a card and call them.  And keep everything - EVERYTHING - documented - what happened - what you were denied, allowed, how things went, etc.  There's a very good article on documenting.....make sure you read it.

Good luck and hang in there!
==============================================================================

dsm - 34
DH - 38
SD - 15
LO - 9
BB - 2
------------------
2 Cheap Entertainment cats - Snoop & Dagger - 5 years and counting.....

[Cher]

Thank you both.

I called their school today and talked to the VP. She told me to come down tomorrow with my divorce papers and she'd put me in the system. (She was very kind) BUT...can you believe that I wasn't already in there! Sheesh! I have no idea how he even enrolled them w/o me being there. (His name is not on the b cert)

My blood sugar is going crazy! I'm even having a hard time seeing what I type.

The legal aid had comp problems and asked me to call bk. :( I did talk to a pro bono office and they told me to call bk if l aid cannot help me. She said that they do handle custody cases. :)

I am also going to ask the lawyer about child alienation, and know that by him not allowing conduct, he looks very bad. I might file for full custoday, but they play sports and such and I hate to disrupt the twins further.

Things that I am going to ask the lawyer for (If they will re write the visitation) (Right now it just says that the parents will come to a decision)

1. They will be allowed to call me
2. I want to see report cards, be informed of school activities, parent/ teacher conferences, school photos and I am putting myself on the school em card.
3. Be notified of emergencies (one of them broke their wrist and no one told me!)
4. Every other weekend, det up holidays, summer and any other vacation
5. He cannot take them out of the state for more than a week w/o my permission and I want the # and address of the hotel or whatever.
6. He has to inform me of a number or address change.
7. He cannot take them to another dchool w/o first discussing it with me.
8. He, nor his g/f cannot bad mouth me to the children and vise-versa.

Any other suggestions? I want to cover all areas. Cpould he appeal the new visitation rules? He is denying all of those to me right now. Will the judge look at that? If I went to get full custody, everything he is doing will make it harder on him right?

For now...how do i see my boys? I hate to take the cops over there. It will upset my babies too much. How can I see them? I am going to ask legal aid when I actually talk to an intake worker again, but I need to know now. :(

I would not go to the b-day party and the boys and I discussed a party at my house, but when my x came home, he said 'no!'

In the divorce papers it says we have joint legal custoday and I have partial physical custody. It says that the parents will agree on visitation and what not.

He says that I will see them if & when his schedule opens. :( The boys started to cry, but I held my tears until he hung up. ..after he called me names and threatened child support. I am not worried about child support, I'll pay it. He will never hold that over my head again.

We live in Pennsylvania.

[Cher]

p.s. he will not even let them call on Mother's day. :( His g/f says she is a better mom than me. :(

I have not had my boys on any holiday morning since 99. When I was here prior, I got them when he was ready. (usually for a few hrs after 5) :(  (NEVER overnight) AND I could never have them on weekdays. Why? My ex said they had homework. :(

Please help me. I know nothing of this legal stuff and am so scared. I'm also getting depressed. I work in nursing and all the while at work, I feel so sad and stupid for trusting him.

I LET them live with him. Won't the judge see that? He must know that I never rxpected such a mess or I would never of let them go. :( :( :(

[dsm]

For now, just keep trying to work with your ex on setting up a time for you to spend with your kids.  Don't take the police with you - there isn't anything that is able to be used for a footing yet.  Put your requests in writing to him - request the afternoon of either 8/20 or 8/21 from 1-6pm (or whatever day works best for you); request to take them to school on the first day; figure out your work schedule.  Is there time after school when they would be able to be with you that he is not available?  (think that if you can get them 2 or 3 days after school a savings for after school care would be seen - this is for your case - not to divulge to him yet.....)  Keep putting it in writing to him and then if you have caller id and are not able to tape telephone calls, watch for his number to come up - let it go to the answering machine - because even without being able to tape live calls, messages left on the machine should be submissable and will help to prove for you that you are trying to see your kids, but he is setting up road blocks.  When you request for the time after school (or even 1 or 2 evenings say from 4-7pm) put in your request that homework absolutely will be worked on during this time and you will let him know where things stand when they are dropped off.

Don't fall for the 'but they have homework' or 'they have practice' excuses.  Families work around this stuff all the time.  If there is practice on a night that you are requesting, then put it in your request that you will pick up or take to practice accordingly.  Basically make it so that you come off as totally accomodating their existing school and activity schedule.

Ask for every other weekend with them.   And keep asking.   Use it to your advantage that the current decision states that the parents are to come to a mutual decision and that you are trying to work with him.

Send your kids cards, letters, notes, etc.   Again, get involved in their school life - become the room mother; see if you can volunteer in their classroom a few times a month.  This will be HUGE in gaining the school to be able to say that you are an involved parent.  And then you WILL know about the conferences; you WILL know about grades and report cards.  You don't need your ex to provide that information to you.  This is the type of stuff that yes, he should offer and should promote to you, but reality is that you are capable of obtaining it on your own and the school has seemed to be willing to work with you.   Be super nice to the school workers - they will be a great help to you.  

For what you posted for what you want to request....

Yes, they should be able to call you.  You should be able to call them.  And vice versa when they are at your house, they should be able to call their dad and he them - put it at reasonable times (for instance no calls after 8pm unless emergency)

School stuff I covered above.

E/O weekend I covered above.  Just make sure that you keep your requests documented - do it by letter - send it with delivery receipt so that you have proof that he received your request.  Put a specific date that he should respond to you.

Absolutely be informed of emergencies.  Read the sample parenting plans here......so much of what you need to cover and stipulate are right there - you copy and paste and make it work for your situation.....

Hang in there.  And most of all - don't beat yourself up any more - you need to be strong and make it clear that you are not going anywhere - you will keep the kids in their regular life - not move them away from what they've known, etc.

==============================================================================

dsm - 34
DH - 38
SD - 15
LO - 9
BB - 2
------------------
2 Cheap Entertainment cats - Snoop & Dagger - 5 years and counting.....

[Cher]

Thanks. He will not answer my calls, but I will keep trying. :( I'm so sad and very scared. I have no idea what my twins are thinking right now. (They are going to be 12)


Can he call the police if I go over there? He said he would. I haven't argued or harassed him and haven't taled to him since he said no and hung up. At first, he wouldn't get on the phone and just kept saying in the background that they could not come over.


What if he still says no and will not get on the phone?

My printer will not work, what can I do or where can I go to print out the forms here?


Legal aid is so hard to get a hold of and days are passing. He is alienating the children from me and I am worried. Seems i have no leg to stand on here. How can he say no? Why couldn't I do anything about it then? He must be laughing. :(

In the end, the boys will remember this ad have harsh feelings toward him. He doesn't want what is best for them...he wants revenge.

[dsm]

If your printer is not working, copy your things to a Word document and save to a disc.  Then when you have everything together, go to the library, or your local Kinko's to print out.  There will be a charge for this but without a home printer, your options are a bit tied.  Another option is to see if your boss would mind if you brought a disc in to work and on your break or before/after your shift allow you to print things out there (much cheaper!!!!)  You will also want to keep a copy of EVERYTHING that you send.   Again, see if your boss would okay you to use the copy machine at work - or pay for the copies at your library or Kinko's.

Don't try to call him any more for awhile.   Use the mail for your correspondence.  In your first letter say that you have attempted to talk to him but he has refused phone calls and you are attempting to schedule time with your kids.  Something like this:


Ex-DH:

I have tried to talk with you on the phone but you have not been willing to talk to me about scheduling time for X and Y to spend with me.  Our last conversation dated MM/DD/YY you said you would call the police if I came to your house to see the boys.  I do not think that would be in the boys' best interest to see further conflict between you and I.  Therefore I am attempting to work things out with you through the mail.  

As you know, our current divorce order states that "[insert the wording from your divorce order on how visitation is to be set - parents agree on mutual time, etc]".   School is beginning MM/DD/YY and I would like to take an active role in their education and parenting.  In order to do this, I would like to get a regular schedule for time with them so that I can help with homework, sports, .... [insert other activities (scouting, church, etc)].

Before school starts, I'd like to spend at least the afternoon of one weekend with them [this depends on when your school starts - do you have time to ask for two weekend times?  If so - do it!!!!]   Please let me know whether Saturday 8/20 or Sunday 8/21 works better for you.  I am flexible on either day and times.

I also would like to have Sunday Sept 5 at noon through Monday Sept 6 at 6pm to have Labor Day holiday with the boys.

I'd like to have Tuesdays and Thursdays from after school until 7pm.  If there is practice or dentist or doctor appointments, I would be able to transport them as needed.  Homework of course would be attended to as well and I will let you know what is left when I drop them off to you.

I am willing to work together with you to come up with a beneficial schedule so that our children are able to enjoy time with both of us and families on both sides.   Please contact me at xxx-xxx-xxxx or write to me at [insert address].  My intent is not to cause conflict, but to be involved in their lives as much as I can.

Your response is appreciated by Aug 18 so that plans can be confirmed for the weekend that I have requested time with the boys.

Thank you.


Cher


*****edited to state that this is my thoughts - not legal advice*****

Good luck!!!!

==============================================================================

dsm - 34
DH - 38
SD - 15
LO - 9
BB - 2
------------------
2 Cheap Entertainment cats - Snoop & Dagger - 5 years and counting.....

[Cher]

Thanks! Here is what I typed up for the lawyer, the clerk, and such. I'm waiting for legal aid to call me back now. They said within 24 hrs after taken my info. It has been over that.


My Testimony


In 2000, I informed " "  that I wanted a divorce; I had fallen out of love and wanted to move on. He took this very tough, called my family and friends, trying to find a way to reconcile. He then took a two-week trip to " ", calling me each step, asking to try again. I agreed and went to marriage counseling like he had asked. My feelings had not changed and I knew we were through.

He was going back to his origin in " " and I was staying in " ".  He asked if he could take the boys to live with him and I said 'no'. Finally after several attempts, I agreed, but only if I came too; I wasn't going to have the boys moved across country w/o me. He promised me that he would be a good father and never keep them from me.
So we moved, I got my own place and settled in with a great job that I got the first day we arrived into " ", " ". He moved into his mother's with all three children for the first 2 weeks, until I got my own place.

He continued to live there and my daughter and I at our new place. He watched my daughter on the weekends while I worked 16 hr shifts. In the meantime, he continuously tried to get back together. I still stated 'no'. Finally he gave up and cancelled the auto insurance, told me he wasn't a babysitter, and would not watch " " anymore. I had to quit my job, lost my car, and once again, had to work my way back up.

" ", being in his own environment, began to make it difficult to see the boys. When I did have them, I'd take them to the library to check out books to read, send them home with the books, asking Tom to please return them – a month later, he did – to me! He said, "I guess they are late". I could not afford the fees and that was the end of our library trips.

He would not allow the boys to call my home. He told them that if they wanted to see me, they'd have to wait to see if I called and asked. They once called and left a message on my machine, stating that they wanted to come over and for me not to tell that they called. He found out and they got into trouble. That was they only time that they have called since 2000.

I called his parent's house and there was always just a machine. Finally his mother answered and said she'd call the police and say I was harassing her if I called again.
I got " "'s beeper number from a mutual acquaintance and called him. I took the boys overnight. As we wee driving past the block of " ", they told me, "Mom, we live down there". I had no idea that they had moved. They told me that they lived with 'Dad's new girlfriend' and asked me not to notify him they had told me.

When I next spoke to " ", I told him of they difficulty calling his mother's house and asked if he moved. At first he denied it, but then said yes. I asked for the address and #. He said 'no'. He stated that as long as I had his beeper #, I needed nothing else. I asked what school they were going too, he would not tell. I then asked the boys and they told me. When I spoke to him next, I informed him that I'd like to meet their teachers and he said that he did not want that. I tried to dispute, but he threatened child support and I knew I could not afford it and kept silent.

" " then began to change the rules. Here are a few examples:

·   " " and " " were not allowed to call me at all.

·   He began censoring what the boys could and could not do in my home.

·   I was not allowed in the boys home; I had to stand at the driveway or he'd bring the boys to my home.

·   He alienated me from the boys' daily lives, by not showing me report cards, would not let me go to their school, never informed me of their baseball games, or when one of them got hurt. He intimidated me.

·   " " did not allow me to have them after school. He stated that they had homework. And when I found out that they were going to a friend's home after school, I asked to watch them and he said 'no'.

·   " " would not allow me to have any school photos or baseball photos. He stated that he had none left and would not inform me ahead of time, so I could purchase my own.

·   He and his g/f would bad mouth me to the boys. " " told me that his g/f told him that she was a better mother than I was.

·   Did not inform me of birthday gatherings and would not allow " ", who is their 13 yr old sister, to go to these parties.

·   " " did not put my name on the emergency contact cards at the boys' school.

·   " " never told me when " " sprained his wrist.

·   He would bring them over on the holidays long after 3 pm. They were only to stay a few hours. I was not allowed to have them on any holiday overnight and have not since we lived together in 1999.

·   He never encouraged the boys to call me or send me cards, letters, or anything of that sort. I have never received anything in the mail from them in 5 years.

·   Etc.

I began to feel alienated and all alone in " ". I, then decided to move back home to be close to my mother for moral support. Before I left I asked to have the boys over the weekend and " " said 'no'. He brought up that " " had dark circles beneath his eyes from the last time he was at my home. He said that they stayed up too late and he did not like my b/f at the time. I told him that they had not seen us in a while and I let them stay up and watch movies with their sister. After arguing, he finally said I could have them for a few hours. I did not want to argue, so I agreed.

When the boys arrived, we said our goodbyes, cried, and talked about me coming back as soon as I could. It was the worst day of my life.

He called " " out to his van and he cried. We left a few days later.

After I moved to " " it became even more difficult to talk or to see them. I asked about having the boys during the summer and " " said 'no way'. Again, the boys were not allowed to call me. I told them that my cell phone had free long distance and if they called, I'd call right back. Still they never called, sent letters, or replied to my messages or letters and cards.

When I did talk to them I told them that I was coming back. " " and " " were pleased. They always asked me when I was coming. I talked to them on Christmas 2004, told them I was coming soon and they were delighted to hear the news. Their sister talked to them; my ex talked to me, and was very friendly. He talked to my daughter as well. She had a chance to talk to the boys and my present b/f as well. That was the last time they ever answered the phone.

In May of 2005, I wrote a letter stating that I was worried and asking if they might of moved. I never got a response. I moved back in July of 2005, got a place, a phone and called. The boys were very excited to hear from us. My daughter told them we were back and asked them to come for the weekend. They asked " " when he came home, he said  'no'. " " stated that she could hear him yelling in the background. I asked her to get him on the phone, he refused.

I got on the phone and asked my son to put him on the phone. Finally he got on and started yelling, calling me a b*, saying that I was a scumbag and not going to come back and ruin his new life. I told him that he shouldn't keep the children from me and he disagreed. I told him that we had joint custody and he said  IF I were ever to see the boys again, it would be supervised because he did not like my last b/f.  He said that if I came to his home, he'd call the police. I told him that I could come with them, bit did not think it was in the best interest of the boys. He told me that he was going to get child support, not to call again, and hung up the phone. That was on August 4th. That following week, the child support papers came.

The boys had a birthday on August " "th and I could not see them, nor could their older sister.

I went to the boys' school to put my name and number on the contact card. The principal had to inform " " of the changes. He said that my ex  did not agree, even though the principal had copies of the divorce. He told my ex that I had a right to be in their lives and the papers to prove it. He said that " " was going to see a lawyer and make it that I was not allowed at the school. I told the principal that I planned on being in the boys' lives and wanted to volunteer at the school, like I had during my marriage to " "; I was homeroom mom, went on outings, and received certificates and such from the school they attended in " ".

Since then, I have been seeking legal advice, reading information online and in the local library.


I, hereby state these events to be UN falsified and accurate to the best of my recollection.

" "
August 18th, 2005

My ideas on a parenting plan:

·   The mother is to have " " and " " every other weekend from Friday night at 7pm to Sunday night at 5pm, overnight on every other holiday from 6pm the eve of the holiday to 4 pm the afternoon of the holiday – starting this Christmas of 2005. There will be time allowed for late pick ups and late drop offs.

·   The father cannot take the children out of state for more than a week w/o mother approval, and supplying an address and number of where they will be staying. Same goes for the mother.

·   The father and mother are to have each other's updated address, phone number, and work number at all times.

·   The father and mother must inform each other of any emergency with each child and inform the other parent what action that has or will be taken.

·   The father and mother are not to badmouth each other to or in front of the children.

·   The father and mother are not to argue in front of the children. They may talk to each other if they have a problem in private or on the phone.

·   The children will be allowed to phone either parent at any decent hour.

·   The children will be encouraged to phone either parent on Mother's Day, Father's day and holidays.

·   The children will be encouraged and helped to keep a healthy relationship with both parents.

·   Summer and other vacation days will be set up accordingly: mother will get the children for a total of one full week (not including mother's every other weekend rights) over the summer, each month. The father may call, or visit. Mother will have children 4 days straight over Christmas vacation.

·   Mother is to be informed of school picture day, so she may be able to purchase photos, informed of any games the children may be engaged in and any other activities.

·   Mother will be informed of school report cards and any other school related letter sent home of importance.

·   Father cannot move children from school or make any other major decisions w/o mother's permission as to the joint custody agreement.

·   Father cannot move children to another state w/o mother's permission.

·   Both parents will agree to help support the children in any way with homework help, and such.

·   The children are allowed to visit mother at any time this includes after school. The mother must start homework with children and inform the father of progress and what might be left to do at home that evening.

·   Mother may visit children at school and pick them up from school. She must inform the father after doing so and set a decent time to bring the children home.

·   " ", " " and " "'s sibling is to be allowed to visit the boys, come to birthday parties if the boys like, and not to be treated in any bad way by " " or his family and friends.

·   The children are not to be badgered about their visit to mother in order to find something negative about her and vise-versa.

·   Mother, upon asking is allowed to visit the children in their home, see their bedrooms and see their environment.

·   Mother and father will share physical custody as well as joint legal custody.


I think a parenting plan is best for both children. The children deserve to be happy and to have both parents involved in their daily lives.

Thank you,

" "

Good? I still haven't seen them. :(