eviction

[Mom1Step2]

Just a quick question.

We will possible be going to court soon. BM is asking for a reversal of custody (we have school, she has summer).  According to the kids she & her boyfriend were kicked out of her last place (a letter was on the door that said they had to be out by x date).  There are no official records showing an eviction that I can find (and I know where to look).

Question is:

Would a letter from the landlord be admissible in lieu of an offical eviction notice?

Is it even worth our time to try and get this (does this help prove that BM is not stable)?

Thanks.

[ocean]

If landlord will put it in writing, then get it. You could ask ex for current address that the kids will be sleeping and if they have their own bed. Once school starts she would have to live in school district to try and get more custody...what is she using as the reason for the change of custody?

[Mom1Step2]

As always, it is a long story. Her basic reason is: this is what I want, so it should be so. Seriously, that is what she wrote. DH had to counter with: I can neither deny or affirm accusations because none were made.

I know she has to prove cause & change of circumsance on our part. We just want to have all our ducks in a row in case something strange happens.

Thanks again.

[brwneyedmom]

Ask for attorney fees and court costs. She has no case based on what you have written. Of course, I am not an attorney, so my advice may be incorrect.

[ocean]

He should counter with: motion should be dismissed as there are no change of circumstance since the last court order and no change within the petitioners motion.

The courts may throw it out just on that alone.

[Mom1Step2]

Is that a possibility? Just say there is no reason & it wont even go to court?

We havent been served yet, but went and got copies of everything from the courthouse ourselves.  So we got a jumpstart on filling out our counter montion (which we havent yet filed since we havent been served).

We were going to go ahead and ask for a few changes ourselves. (two weeks before school starts rather than the day before, two days before end of winter break). As well as some clarification on things we have always had trouble with (those Monday holidays).

Would it be better to go the route ocean gave to just say: "no change", and leave it at that?  Could we follow with our drawn out counter if it didnt get thrown out?

One other question: 14yo wrote a letter to the court stating she wanted this change. Her letter basicily mirrored BM's letter. This is what I want, Mom buys me stuff, etc.  She even ended with I feel like I have lived with my Dad too long now and should live with my Mom now. (Nice stuff, huh?)  Anyway, can this be considered change of circumstance, the fact that child wants a change?

From what I understand, FL doesnt have an age of choice like some states, but that the court will consider the childs opinion.

We are in Florida by the way.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

[Simplydad]

From what I understand a child's request can be considered a change in circumstance.  However, the decision is not based on that particular request.  The decision is still based on what is in the best interest of the child.

In my opinion the BM would be a fool to submit to the courts a letter from a child saying "I want to live with my mom because she buy's me stuff."

[Mom1Step2]

Simplydad:

Of course it wasnt stated in those exact words, but that was basically what it said

BM is trying to show she can provide for kids. There is no support order. We take care of our time, she hers. However, she insists of buying school clothes each year (ok not entirely true, BM's mother buys school clothes). The first few years, we bought stuff, but the stuff she bought was always better (and therefore preferred by kids). We gave up after the first two years, why waste the money.

Anyway, this is one of her points, that she helps provide for the kids. So 14yo letter stated Mom buys school clothes, mom buys bathing suit, mom takes us places.

As for your statement of her being a fool: She has already submitted this stuff, we just havent been served.

Now for a small rant: during the yearly argument about not giving her check-out right at school, she informed us last night that it is perfectly ok to check kids out of school 1/2 hour early because they arent doing anything anyway - exact reason we want to keep school time. :end rant

[ocean]

Her age may sway a judge but keep to the facts: child is doing good in school on this schedule, has friends and family support....
When they get to the high teens, courts tend to go with what they want, especially if she asks for a GAL involved and they start advocating what the child wants. BUT your case was just decided...so ..do you know if this is going before same judge yet? I would gently remind judge, "We were just here XX months ago and you already ruled on most of the petitioners request and there has not been any significant changes".

[Mom1Step2]

It wasnt just rulled on. The current order went into affect 2006.

Children lived with BM full time with DH getting eow before 2006. In 2005 BM handed over children because she was living in her truck/hotels and had no job.

We did a modification in 2006 that gave DH school and BM summer, with each getting eow & split holidays.

As far as the judge goes, I have no idea. The original was uncontested, the modification was uncontested & went through a magistrate. BM & DH met with mag. & signed. It was then sent to judge & they signed off on it.

Does the fact that it went through a mag. make a difference? The fact that it was uncontested?

As far as the kids doing well, yes. 14yo was midway through 3rd grade in 2005 & was reading at 1st grade level. She had been through 3 schools in Kindergarten and 2 or more for the other grades. We got her up to 3rd grade level by the end of that year but held her back a year. Every day is a strugle with her for school, & we do the best we can. She has been in partial special classes on and off all this time. She has never been pinged with an LD status though. YSD was in Kindergarten in 2005, so she has been largely unaffected (school wise, mental frustration with the situation is another matter).

I am still very intregued by your statement about just filing that there is no change in circumstance. Like I said, we have our wanted changes all drawn out, but now I am unsure if we should just go that route and see what happens. I kind of think it would make us look more unconfrontational which would be good. We dont mind setting these few small changes aside if we can keep it the way it is, but if we are going for a battle, we want to try and change a few things.

Thanks ocean for your input.

[ocean]

Sorry, getting two stories confused on here...lol
No, it does not matter, a court order is a court order and entered.

You can start with trying to get it thrown out, if that does not work, then answer her issues BUT you do not have to either or not give so much info from the start. If you want to negotiate you can not give them all your "proof" right from the beginning.

Since things have not changed since 2006 then you have to prove that or that the kids best interest is to keep things the way they are. IF you have to answer to this, then I would say something like:

"Father does not agree to custody change at this time, as children are now adjusted to their new school/friends for the past X years. Father has been primary care giver since XX when mother relinquished her rights as she did not have a place to live, job, and changed children's schools XX times. Mother
does not pay any child support and agreed to pay for extra expenses (school clothing) and the time she has children as NCP. Father pays for day to day issues/bills/medical?/dental?. It would be in the best interest of the children to have custody remain the same and keep their schooling and activities the same especially since daughter x has special needs."
I don't know...part of me thinks even that is too much....lol


DH ex NEVER answered anything...the day of court we would hear what she is trying to pull...

[Mom1Step2]

'If you want to negotiate you can not give them all your "proof" right from the beginning.'

This statement is confusing me. Is there any way you can elaborate?

[ocean]

They will get your response before court and be ready to respond to you. If you leave it general "father does not believe a switch of custody is in the best interest of the children". (They will not know you will use schooling and main one, her housing situation....they can try to get evidence of her rental agreement or that her school is better...respond to each of your responses). Bring it up that day in court, and then they do not have a chance to run out for that stuff and have to respond immediately without thinking it through for weeks.

[Mom1Step2]

Thank you very much Ocean. I was thinking that everything needed to be presented before hand, but I like your thinking.

[Mom1Step2]

I have another question for you Ocean:

DH got served yesterday with all the papers BM filed plus some instructions from the court.

One of the documents stated that if a trial date is set we must submit a Pretrial Catalogue.  Here is what it says about the catalogue:

"The primary purpose of the Pretrial Catalogue is to provide the court with information for the consideration of a Final Judgment. Exhibits should not be filed with the court, however, must be delivered to the opposing party at the time of delivery of the Pretrial Catalogue. The purpose of the Pretrial Catalogue is not to present argument. Issues related to the form or substance of a catalogue which has been filed will be addressed at the Pretrial Conference or by prior motion.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
ATTACH THE FOLLOWING TO THE PRETRIAL CATALOGUE:<o:p></o:p>
5.       Copies of all photographs, exhibits and documentary evidence which the party proposes to use at trial"

Question is: You said: "Bring it up that day in court, and then they do not have a chance to run out for that stuff and have to respond immediately without thinking it through for weeks."

It probably is a state thing, but it looks like we have to show all of our cards ahead of time.  Is this what it looks like to you?

[ocean]

Looks like that... seems like here is a little backwards in family court. One judge even told our lawyer this is not criminal court...so...
There is another poster (Hester I think) going through same thing with evidence...

[mdegol]

There is a way around not being able to bring up things later-at least in the courts I have been.  My lawyer used statements like: "and we reserve the right to supplement such and such evidence later and will provide to the opposing party in a timely fashion."  "At this time, we don't plan to call medical providers, but reserve the right to supplement this list at a later time."   

[lovemybabies]

First I would like to say (as a mom) that I am apalled at the idea of tryithng to work against the mother of your child but with that over with no her eviction will not work against her as long as she has somewhere to bring her kids. If you decide to proceed as suggested then bring a letter from her landlord. I think (not sure) these hearings are public record in some states so you may be able to get more documentation. Either way, best of luck to you.