Question regarding legal fees in ref to a visitation battle.

[mad_as_hell]

My boyfriend and his ex were ordered to go through counseling sessions as part of their court order.  At the last session, a hoiday visitation schedule was supposed to be worked out.  The counselor left the room and told them to work it out themselves.  Tom tried to start a dialog with J* about working out a schedule and she flat out told him to go to hell.  She told him he should be thankful for ANY time she lets him have with his daughter.  Then she ranted about how it cost her thousands of dollars to go to court last time (which she is the one who filed the papers to begin with).  He said let's work it out so we don't have to go back to court and she basically told him to kiss off.  So, we've spoken to his attorney and we sould have papers to sign today.  He'll file them and then we should be in court before xmas.  Now, my question is:

In PA, can we ask the judge to make J* responsible for the legal fees since it is a hardship for us and because Tom tried ot get her to discuss it in the counseling session and Jenn refused?

[joni]

What's the point of the court ordered counselor?  Why didn't Tom leave the room, get the counselor and invite them back in to hear the mother?  Did Tom tell the counselor that the mother refused to discuss this?  What's the counselor's attitude about this?  I know judge's often appoint couselors to avoid unnecessary court appearances.

[wendl]

You can ask, explain how you tried to work it out during counseling and mom wouldn't allow any visitation bla bla bla. Did the counselor hear or document any of this.


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[backwardsbike]

If it was mediation the counselor or mediator cannot disclose anymore than to say " The couple could not come to an agreement."  I've been through mediation ( Court ordered) twice in PA.  I couldn't subpeona the MFT who was our first mediator for a sudtody trial either.  Medaition is a protected relationship.  Her testamony would have sealed the case for me six years and probably $100,000 ago.

[mad_as_hell]

It was put into the order because Jenn INSISTED that it was necessary for all involved.  Tom did not disagree... however, he seems to be the only one interested in ACTUALLY using the sessions wisely.  Jenn comes to the sessions and when he brings up an issue to the counselor, Jenn says "Oh no.  Everything is fine.  Things are going well.  There are no problems."

In my opinion, the counselor is not worth crap because then she sits back and doesn't try to push the dialog.

But then, outside of the sessions, Jenn makes negative remarks to Tom.  But, when she has audience, she acts all sweet and friendly.

[mad_as_hell]

The counselor heard NONE of what she said to him.  When Tom brought up discussing a holiday schedule, Jenn said "Oh - no.  We'll discuss that in private."  And the stupid counselor said, "Well, then I'm done here.   I will leave you two to discuss a schedule."  AND SHE LEFT THE ROOM!?  What kind of counselor is this?

[mad_as_hell]

Our attorney sent the paperwork to Pike County yesterday.  In Pike, your attorney can file on your behalf and you don't actually have to sign anything so he drew up the papers and sent them right to Pike County.  So, Jenn should be receiving the paperwork from the court next week sometime?

While the counselor did not hear what went on after she left room on Nov. 17, she was witness on October 15th to Jenn's behavior and attitude regarding holiday visitation.  Tom originally brought up the subject of working out a schedule for the holidays on October 15th.  Jenn immediately tried to say that if the holiday doesn't fall on his scheduled weekend, he can't have Cassie.  The counselor, (for once), said "No.  That's not how it works.  We'll discuss it at the next session."  The next session was supposed to be 10.29.04 but Tom drove all the way up there and the counselor didn't have it in her book so she left the office early.  He had the appointment card in her handwriting that said 10.29.04.  Conveniently, Jenn knew there was no session and did not show up either.  Hmm...

Anyway... my question is this:
How do we apply to the court to get the legal fees reimbursed by Jenn?  Last time in court it cost Tom $2500 and he just recently got it paid off.  The attorney this time has taken only $500 so far, but that was the money Tom had saved to buy me an engagement ring.  (I told him to use it to pay the attorney because his daughter is more important.)  However, if it goes on as long as it did the last time and more money needs to be shelled out, it will have to go on the credit card.  We're strapped already.

AND I ALMOST FORGOT - YES... HE SPOKE TO THE COUNSELOR AFTER JENN LEFT AND TOLD HER WHAT HAPPENED.  They still have a session scheduled for Dec. 1 but I told him to call that day and make sure Jenn won't have had it cancelled since she will receive the paperwork by then.

[joni]

Tom has got to change his attitude on this whole issue.  Tom's got to torture this counselor, nag this counselor, call this counselor every day to get her to do her job.

If Tom just complains and doesn't follow through, this counselor is lazy and has no incentive to take care of the issue because she just ignores it and Tom goes away.

When Jenn says everything's OK, Tom has got to stand up and say, no it's not and this is why, and this is why and this is why.  And keep pushing the issue until either the Ex snaps or the counselor jumps to attention.

[joni]

Tom has got to stand his ground.  Have him bring a copy of the court motion for the counselor to read, in fact, send it over to her before hand so the counselor will understand what you had to do because of the counselor not handling it at the prior two meetings.

[mad_as_hell]

The agreement says that Jenn was not to sign Cassie up for any activities that would occur during his period of custody.  She went out and put Cassie in cheerleading which occurs EVERY Saturday.  Not wanting to make a big deal about it, Tom did not make a big stink because he was under the impression that Cassie enjoyed cheerleading.  Turns out, from Cassie's own mouth, she HATES it and did not ask to participate in it.

Tom took the agreement to their first counselor session and showed it to the woman and asked to have this discussed as one of their first issues.  The counselor brings it up and Jenn says, "Cassie LOVES cheerleading." And so, the counselor tells Tom that he should enjoy spending time with his daughter while she is enjoying her favorite activity.

So, I don't think that showing this counselor anything in the agreement will work.  

We want to make JENN repsonsible for his legal fees because he can show that we have asked her to discuss this without going to court.  We have multiple letters we sent to her requesting to discuss this in counseling or mediation and all the letter were sent certified return receipt.  I have all the signature cards with her signature and every time we've sent her  a letter, we've spent the extra money to specify that it could ONLY be released to HER and not to any "agent" of hers.