custody issues

[rhutche106]

My husband has joint custody of three elementary aged children and has been separated and subsequently divorced for 5 years. at the time of the divorce, ex moved about 1 1 /2 hrs away to be closer to her family.  At time of divorce, husband was trying to keep cost down, be reasonable and look after best interest of kids.  Since new location did put closer to family it was considered a good thing.  He agreed to standard visitation (EOW and every other Thurs for a few hours) anticipating being able to work things through.  Also hoping to save costs, ex had cheap atty and husband was not represented - being assured everything was joint and standard with kids primarily residing with Ex.

For the first several years after the separation and divorce, ex would sign kids up for whatever extra-curricular activities she chose even when it conflicted with husband's time.  Thinking it was the best thing for the kids to be supportive of their activities, we would end up staying over at husband's inlaws on our weekends because it didn't make sense to drive back and forth.  Emotional issues kept escalating with kids with their comments showing mother was involving them in adult issues and lying to them.  we got her to agree to counseling.  she chose a counselor in her town and we would drive every other week to accommodate her schedule for this additional counseling. Counselor found that kids were not adjusting because they did not see two separate homes, Mom was creating an unhealthy co-dependency  and we were just visiting family. counselor recommended establishing firm boundaries.  Ex quit counseling saying "no one was going to tell her what to do with her kids" and "counseling was causing more trouble then before" - because we had begun saying 'No' to her control.

We ended up hiring attorney to try and enforce decree as well as make changes to the visitation schedule. We had a temp hearing and judge ruled in our favor in several items but required longer hearing for the additional visitation requested and remaining items.   That was over a year ago.

The mid-week visitation means we have to drive over 3 hours for 3 hours of time with them.  When we get them, we feed them, play for half hour and work on homework the rest of the time.  There are often PTO meetings, extra-curricular events, etc, that also coincide, so we have even less time.  We have requested an extra weekend to take the place of every 4 Thursdays but she refused.  Basically anything other then the original decree is denied unless it works to her advantage.  If we can't make the Thurs visitation due to work issues, she refuses to allow husband's inlaws to use that time to see them.  I don't know how she thinks she can dictate husband's time.  

The kids have begun making friends here but it's very hard when they're only up here every other week.  We would like to get half of the summer, and three weekends a month in place of the Thursday night and for extra time.  this would also help us be better informed and help with school work.  

Financially the original decree stated each parent was responsible for half of any and all extra-curricular.  Ex has determined that means anything she defines and we don't have a choice. At the time of our temp hearing, she was in F/C because she could not manage money. (she had no debt leaving the marriage) So we're trying to get this limited to what we agree to in writing with written documentation from extra-curricular source.

Husband carries the kids under his insurance and would like to keep it that way because he has better policy.  Husband's credit has been effected b/c ex does not pay dr's bills or file insurance correctly.  Standard child support in our state would be for primary custodian to pay first $250/child/yr.  Because he was not represented he is responsible for xx% of all medical.  Between the fact credit is affected, ex chooses optional medical procedures and requires our %, even when we disagree, we are requesting to have the standard financial requirements.  

Ex gets to claim all kids on taxes.  Despite the fact we pay a large amount of child support/have never missed a payment, subsidize extra-curricular and xx% of medical, not to mention 100% of everything at our house - including all clothes, toys, etc. - nothing goes back and forth, we don't claim anything.  We volunteered to have her accountant send us her tax returns and we would claim the kids, give her everything she would have gotten, plus split the extra we got.  She refused.  So Uncle Sam wins.

Any info we get from school or dr has been from our direct contact with them and proactive communication.  Info she does provide is usually inaccurate so we have to go to the source (providing proof he has joint custody).

Part of temporary hearing required her to meet half way.  We had to move the time back one hour because she was never on time.  Since then we've still had to sit and wait  - for our pick-ups - she's never later for returns.

The final issues before the court are a series of contempt.  They are a series of failing to provide joint access to school/dr. Bringing kids into adult issues; welfare of the children, etc...

At time of court filing, we witnessed on many occasions in the house, dried feces, unhealthy conditions, received suitcase reeking of cat urine, etc.  Since then we are not allowed in house.  Also at time of filing, kids were all sleeping regularly in bed with Ex - including the dog.

Are we wasting our money? Do we stand any chance since we're not asking for a custody change, just more time with a realistic schedule?

[ocean]

I would be asking for mandating the counseling with the same counselor you started with. Since you have joint, you can continue to bring them there on your time. If she refuses to go...just go with the kids.

The taxes you will probably not win but go for it....usually the CP gets to claim kids unless the CP is not working and not filing. You can ask for every other year or the youngest child instead?

The rest sounds reasonable. How about adding the long weekends that the school is off. Around here they get one almost every month (instead of the third weekend?).

Good luck!

[MixedBag]

>Financially the original decree stated each parent was
>responsible for half of any and all extra-curricular.  Ex has
>determined that means anything she defines and we don't have a
>choice. At the time of our temp hearing, she was in F/C
>because she could not manage money. (she had no debt leaving
>the marriage) So we're trying to get this limited to what we
>agree to in writing with written documentation from
>extra-curricular source.

I think this is a good idea and hope the judge will see things the way you do.


>
>Husband carries the kids under his insurance and would like to
>keep it that way because he has better policy.  Husband's
>credit has been effected b/c ex does not pay dr's bills or
>file insurance correctly.  Standard child support in our state
>would be for primary custodian to pay first $250/child/yr.
>Because he was not represented he is responsible for xx% of
>all medical.  Between the fact credit is affected, ex chooses
>optional medical procedures and requires our %, even when we
>disagree, we are requesting to have the standard financial
>requirements.  

My oldest decree was written this way too.  Actually, most of my decrees that I've dealt with were written as a percentage.  However, the states' code has changed in the recent years to what you're saying now.  Chances are that when or if CS gets updated, this part can too.

AS for medical bills going into collection, I suggest you use and reference the "Fair Credit Reporting Act" or something close to that.  If Dad never signed for the services, then the doctor's office can't hold him responsible.  EVEN if there's a decree -- you can fight all of this and be successful.  In court, use all of this as an example of how she refuses to co-parent.  For the medical bills that can be, give the doc's office the info and have them process the bills against dad's insurance.




>
>Ex gets to claim all kids on taxes.  Despite the fact we pay a
>large amount of child support/have never missed a payment,
>subsidize extra-curricular and xx% of medical, not to mention
>100% of everything at our house - including all clothes, toys,
>etc. - nothing goes back and forth, we don't claim anything.
>We volunteered to have her accountant send us her tax returns
>and we would claim the kids, give her everything she would
>have gotten, plus split the extra we got.  She refused.  So
>Uncle Sam wins.

Normally -- the CP gets to claim the kids.  Some states have used this fact when they determined the CS tables.  To the NCP it sometimes seems like that isn't fair -- and I won't say one way or another....

>
>Any info we get from school or dr has been from our direct
>contact with them and proactive communication.  Info she does
>provide is usually inaccurate so we have to go to the source
>(providing proof he has joint custody).
>

Many many parents have to do this -- count me in as one of them.

>Part of temporary hearing required her to meet half way.  We
>had to move the time back one hour because she was never on
>time.  Since then we've still had to sit and wait  - for our
>pick-ups - she's never later for returns.



>
>The final issues before the court are a series of contempt.
>They are a series of failing to provide joint access to
>school/dr. Bringing kids into adult issues; welfare of the
>children, etc...
>
>At time of court filing, we witnessed on many occasions in the
>house, dried feces, unhealthy conditions, received suitcase
>reeking of cat urine, etc.  Since then we are not allowed in
>house.  Also at time of filing, kids were all sleeping
>regularly in bed with Ex - including the dog.
>
>Are we wasting our money? Do we stand any chance since we're
>not asking for a custody change, just more time with a
>realistic schedule?

For some of this stuff, don't hold your breath.  Judges care, but have to find a balance.  

BTW -- EX#2 and Camilla are reading and printing this probably before you've even had a chance to read it.

Fun!!!

[Giggles]

is to ask for the Moon and Stars then settle for one or the other.  What that means is to file for above and beyond what you would "settle" for that typically helps get you what you want.

Another thing to look into is PAS.  Parent Alienation Syndrome.  You want to read up on it and find ways to combat this early!!!

Make sure your parenting plan is SPECIFIC as to drop off pick up times and dates.  The more detailed it is, the more ammo you have for a contempt charge.  

The best thing to do is document...document...document.  If communication with the X is mostly telephone, try having it switched to e-mail, that way you have documentation for contempts if necessary!!

If you suspect poor living conditions, I'm not sure there is much you can do about that except document the condition that you receive the children in (dirty clothes, unbathed, etc).

Something you may want to ask for is a Psychological Eval. These can be expensive, but it may help your case.

[rhutche106]

Thanks for all the advise.  Documentation is definitely our strength.  We don't have pictures of house conditions b/c again for the sake of the kids we didn't want to tramatize them and go around with a camera.  but we do have our testimonies and in-laws first-hand experience. (and the suitcase that still reeks!)  Counselor did try to get DSS involved with that, but I guess that wasn't high priority for them, so we don't have a record of that.  We have also been reading up on PAS.  She's got the passive-agressive victim poison thing down.  

I don't think I mentioned in the original post that EX remarried right after our temp hearing last year - new spouse has custody of his youngest child - and they had another baby last fall.  They requested our fall trial be post-poned because this was too stressful on her in her pregnancy. (course she was out camping, boating, etc.)  We're still without a date at this point.

We're asking for what we think would be fair and reasonable to any court.  We considered asking for the moon, but decided maybe we stood a better chance just approaching it from a logical - fair point of view.   There is no reason a fairer distribution of time could not be worked out in the best interest of the kids. Its about the kids not punishing the Ex.

[Kitty C.]

What the other poster is talking about is approaching this like a business negotiation.  Start out requesting a LOT more than what you would settle for, because I can 'guarantee' you that you will get a whole lot less than what you originally asked for, no matter where you start.  So say if you were to ask for the minimum state standards for visitation, if the BM is vindictive enough and has an atty. willing to push the issue, you might end up with even less than that or worse, supervised visitation (even if there's nothing to warrant it).

Please don't sell yourselves or your kids short.......ask for more than you're willing to settle for, because you will inevitably get less than what you ask for.  Your intention of a 'fair distribution of time' is admirable, but I can about guarantee you the BM won't give a rat's patootie about being 'admirable'.

[rhutche106]

We have a court date in two months!  I will let you know how it goes. We're going to take your advice and ask for the moon so there will be some wiggle room.  We're actually thinking she'll try to settle now that she has an incentive.  Up until this minute everything was in her favor with the way the original decree was written so she had no incentive to negotiate things with us. Now with a court date - including contempt charges ;-)  Just cross your fingers!!!!!