Denied Visitation again

[Beantowngal]

We're a little surprised....grandson's mother denied our 2nd week of summer visit today after receiving her contempt papers for denying us 3 weekends, and the 1st week of summer vacation.  She stated in her text to me that her attorney stated she did not have to allow it since we did not ask 30 days in advance.  We have a court ordered  mediated agreement that I knew was too loosely worded.  Mother is trying to use the local rule in addition to our agreement even though our agreement does not indicate anything about local rule.  We get NO holidays, nothing but every other weekend, and 2 weeks in the summer.  She claims the local rule states she needs a 30 day notice...I wouldn't know because I have never been given a copy.  We asked 3 weeks in advance each time. 

I don't know how I can follow a rule I have never been given. 

My son had 3 contempts against her (1.5 years) before he was awarded custody.  No contempts after (8 years) he had custody.  Will they be taken into consideration?  The court did not open a new case, they added us (the grandparents) onto she and my son's case, and noted he is deceased.

Will my attorney be able to make the judge aware that the concern her is for this child and the child we have custody of.  They lived together, until their father's death last year.  This mother has done everything she possibly can to alienate this child from his brother and us.  I know if we were parents that would make a difference, but will it as grandparents?

We have been through hell this year, I pray this is resolved soon.  These boys do not need this.

[Simplydad]

Several flags come to mind.

1. She stated in a text message what her attorney said -  I call crap on that.  My ex tried that nonsense a lot as well for ridiculous things.  She would tell me things like her attorny said this and her attorny said that.  I would tell her she will need to have her attorney provid that in writing.  Of course I would never hear about it again.

2. I don't know the law in your state but I believe that she is trying to apply the 30 day rule incorrectly.  In my state that rule only applies when I want specific dates.  If I do not give the appropriate notice they it is spelled out that my visitation begin on XXX date to XXX date. 

3. Does the order state if you do not give 30 days notice you forfiet your visitation?  I think you will find that is more than likely not in the visitation order. I can't think of a single judge that would sign off on that.

4. The court order is binding regardless of what the local rule is.  If your order spells out visitation then she has to abide by it.  If it is not in the order than it is not binding.

It looks like she is in contempt again.  I would go forward and file another motion to hold her in contempt.  Make her explain the the judge while she violated the order. 

[MixedBag]

I agree....but I'd take it one step further if you can manage to plan...

Notify her 45 days in advance...

In other words, take her argument away.

And at the contempt hearing get it defined.

[Beantowngal]

You are right.  I need to calm down and not believe everything.  I doubt any attorney would give that advice.  Our order says nothing about a notice.  I could give her a 180 day notice and it would still be wrong.  I have recent texts she has sent me telling me I am the cause of all of her problems.  A week after my son passed she told me I was too sad, the next week I was too happy (really).   Nothing I do will ever be right.  Most of her anger is directed at me. 

I am pushing the court ordered counseling.  Unfortunetly the counseling center is very busy, but I am pushing hard.  It feels like this is our only hope of these boys spending quality time together.

We have had another development that I hope helps us.  The younger child misses his brother and wants to spend more time with him.  He is trying to figure out how to make that happen. He told us that since he can only come to our house on our weekends, he and his mom thought it would be a good idea to send him and his 14 year old brother to the local mall for several hours to walk around. The mall would be better than gma's house.
He also asked if the brother could come to his mom's house to play.  That is a problem because mom has a documented history by our GAL (with 2 ex husbands) of making accusations that are not proven.  Sexual abuse, physical abuse, etc.  Mom has also admitted to my husband and myself she cannot stand the older brother.  We think it would be a big mistake to allow him alone with Mom and brother in that house.  Something would be accused, we are not going to go through that again with her.  Anyhow, when 10 year old was asking this, he acknowledged that mom doesn't like his brother.  He thinks he can make it ok, and said he would ask mom to be nice. 

Thanks for the advice and encouragment.  This is draining.

[Kitty C.]

'He thinks he can make it ok, and said he would ask mom to be nice.'

This bothers me....a LOT.  It is NOT his job to make it okay and he needs to know this.  It is NOT his job to try to get everyone to 'play nice'.  What IS his job is to just be a kid, NOTHING else.

I'm getting the impression that maybe this whole issue has been discussed at too much length with the child.  I can understand his desire to see his brother, but it should not be up to him to try to make it happen. 

[Simplydad]

I am with Kitty on this.  The child has way too much information pertaining to this case and the situation.   In hostile environments you may find one parent (or grandparent or other family member) that will refuse to work anyone.  This person does not and probably may never have the child's best interest at heart and will hurt the child (knowing or unknowingly) to get their way.

This is a learning period for any child.  If both parents constantly bicker and point fingers while dragging the child into it guess what the child learns? They learn that relationships whether romantic or with family is full of hostility.  But if someone shows them a loving environment and will be bigger than the pettiness someone drags them into then you are giving the child a choice. You are letting them know loving relationships are available and all you have to do is receive it.

There is a court order.  This court order must be abided at all times by all parties involved.  Keep dragging her to court. She will eventually get tired of jail time and fines.

[Beantowngal]

 He does havetoo much information for a 10 year old.  He knows everything about every legal issue we have had with mom.  Of course, he has it from mom's point of view.  We cannot/willnot compete with mom.  He needs his mom and his brother.  They both can be in his life.
When he tells us legal stuff, or "mom didn't tell me to say that stuff" we work hard to respond,  " This is an adult problem, you're a kiddo...you need to have fun and try to forget it and let us adults get the help we need to figure it all out."  I know i've made mistakes, I have never been in this position before and I do not like any of it one bit.  It is hell. We try to be aware of everything we say, and try not to discuss mom unless he brings her up.

Below are some things he has told us

• He knows mom does not like his brother.
  
• He told me he would not be able to come over on the 2nd week of summer visitation because his mom misses him too much. 
  
• His mom is afraid we will make him sad because we have picture of his dad in our house. I don't know what to do with this.  We can discuss dad with the 14 year old calmly but sometimes there are tears.  I think this is normal.  We are terrified of discussing dad with the 10 year old because of what will get back to mom and the trouble this will cause.  I think this is not normal.
  
• He is not allowed to ask mom to come over more frequently or stay longer.  He did this in the past, and that is when most of the trouble started.  He has told her he's had the best night of his life here, and he loves it here.  I can see how mom feels threatened, especially when she did not have custody when father passed.  There is room in his life for everyone.
  
• He is confused...wants to be with everyone.

I can see how mom is making him feel guilty for having a good time with his brother.  He is scared of expressing his feelings because he does not want to hurt mom. 
We are only grandparents.  We had a stronger than normal relationship with both of these children.  Son was single dad in a management position.  We were backup.  We've done everything a parent would do for them.  The children do not have any rights if mom doesn't cooperate.  Do we ever have a chance of this being different?

[Kitty C.]

'He is not allowed to ask mom to come over more frequently or stay longer.  He did this in the past, and that is when most of the trouble started.  He has told her he's had the best night of his life here, and he loves it here.  I can see how mom feels threatened, especially when she did not have custody when father passed.'

The poor child needs counseling...badly.  And the BM needs to be strung up for refusing the child to grieve.  JMO, but I would consider that abuse.....but that's just me.

So I take it that it's the BM who is feeding all this legal stuff to him.  All you can do in that regard is to keep repeating to him that it's nothing he has to worry about, it's for the adults to take care of.

And I can understand his confusion, since it appears the BM is really messing with his mind about all this.  When you do get back to court, you can ask (and they may grant) that no legal issues can be discussed with the child....but it's practically impossible to enforce.  But depending on the age of the child, at some point he might be able to speak to the judge about what he's been told, if anything, and by whom.  It seems that he's pretty up front and honest with you guys, and as long as he continues that (hoping that BM doesn't threaten him to lie or forbid him to talk), it will be better for all of you.

But I really think he needs counseling, considering the way that BM is messing with his head.  This will also be something that you probably will have to get court ordered.