Child calling the shots, with a long history of PAS

[mango]

I posted back in October about throwing in the towel.

Basic summary, is we have a 50/50 plan, verbally hostile BM, who takes us to court every opportunity to try to get sole custody. Each attempt by the mother has failed.

Last case was dismissed over the past summer.

My step daughter is now 13 and is begining to resist seeing us. Even though she had enjoyed being part of our family for her entire life.

SD now, simply says she does not want to come, after her dad takes the time to drive over and get her. She is rude, about it as well. She acts as if we are an inconvenience to her life. She says she has plans with friends, and rather be at her moms. (We live 40 minutes from her social setting).

She never asks her dad for permission to do things with freinds, she just refuses to come.

Her dad is extremely nice, and flexible and told her he is OK, with being flexible. But he just wanted her to communicate with us, and no more no-shows, etc. Show some respect for this family. But she literally cut us down from a 50/50 situation, to a one weekend per month. We even had a birthday party planned for her, and she refused to come, said she made her "onw" plans.

He is at a loss as to handling this properly. To physically "force her" to get in the car and come home with us, would be upsetting for all. Yes he has a legal right, but if she doesn't want to be there, we certainly will not enjoy the time with her.

Her mom (BM), naturally, says "it's between you & your daughter now". (Gloating)

Her BM has been fighting for the "one weekend per month" plan for several years. Wellm I gues she finally has got it by way of having the daughter turned so completely cold towards us.

She even lied about a school function and said she was not going to participate and found out she did participate later on. It's very dis-heartening to know she is willing to lie to avoid us from coming to her events.

Legally on paper we still have 50/50, and her dad wants to just step back for a little bit and give her some space. Maybe she will come around on her own. Or get into a fight with her mom. Ha Ha!!

We also understand that the teen years, are self-centered, and being with "friends" is above everything. So we have backed off for now, to let her find herself and are glad she is enjoying friends.

But many times she is not even there for the pick-up, and or very disrespectful to her dad when he shows up. "What are YOU doing here" instead of " hi dad". When we do get a weekend it feels like a "mercy" weekend. She, in fact, will shorten it to 1/2 a day, and ask if she can go back, to "study".

Any suggestions to handling this better? It's like we have NO parenting power, as she seems to call the shots, I mean if she is mad, all she has to do is not answer the door, and aside from getting police to bring her out, we can't do much. Court is a NO way at this point, as we have been in court for 9 years, and are $$ done with it.

For now we just call before we come & hope she says OK I will come.

I was thinking he should just write her notes from time to time. She refuses to give us her e-mail, or at least plays like she can't remember the address, so e-mailing is out. They have caller ID, and do not pick-up when we call, or return calls.

We have 3 other children, that are her "half siblings" and the oldest is 7 and she is more attached to her then the rest. More then anything this affects her, because she adores her big sister. This is heartbreaking.

This is a clean home, no funny stuff, no abuse, drugs, neglect, criminal time, etc. No court has found ANY reason to discontinue the 50/50 plan. In fact the last go around the GAL was starting to see the strong PAS and wanted to have custody given to dad as sole, but the BM dropped the case to get rid of GAL, and we did not want to re-enter court for the "possibility" of getting sole-custody. We figured it was nearly impossible to have it reversed, based on PAS alone.

We figure there is only a few years left of custody anyway, and by the time we win she'd be 15 or 16.

Any input would be appreciated.

[Ref]

It seems to me she is being a typical teen. She is testing your boundries. You've given her some time with her friends and she pushes for more. She will just keep doing this. Apparently she is like my SD and has learned that she doesn't need to respect DH because BM encourages this behavior.

Ohhh the seeds BM is sowing!!!! Mark my words, when SD is 15-16, she will get out of control because she will realize that she doesn't need to have respect for BM, just like BF.

How does BM react to the threat of court? This is the way DH has reigned BM in with visitation. She told SD that Dh will drag her butt into court if she doesn't come for visitation. This is completly untrue, but it works in our favor, so screw it. SD has been protesting since she was 12, but Dh's response for the most part is "tough noogies". She sounds upset at BM's but once she gets here she is fine.

I say you use one of the notices of visitation letters for the next visitation. State that you intend on exercising visitation as agreed in your papers unless she is otherwise notified and put a nice big CC: Lawyer's name and CC: Clerk of the court.

I say that you need to insist on seeing SD regardless of whether she is being a jerk or not. She is too young to realize what BM is doing by cutting her family out of her life. If you allow SD to go long periods without seeing you it only gives BM more time to screw with her head.  The first couple of times, I would have DH do special things with SD alone. Something she would really like doing. Give her some warm fuzzies.

Just my opinion
Ref

[rosegdrose]

PRAY!

I would also try not to feed into SD behavior. When she is with you include her in family activities but ignore all the little attention getting behavior and comments. Especially the comments, it'shard to ignore the junk behavior, but it really is just junk. Go about as if it didn't bother you. However set up clear guidelines.

   1. When you[sd] is disrespectful XXX way, you will spend one hour in your room.

and so forth. TOUGH LOVE is tough love for a reason. I would feel like giving in too, but don't. I agree sound like teenager (+ bm stuff) hormones.

[backwardsbike]

Hi Mango,

I'm in the same boat as you except that I only have EOW.  My NC kids are 17 ( to be 18 in April) and 14.  We also have younger half sibs who adore thier oler sibs.  It IS heartbreaking.

My children show up for visits and seem to have a nice time but there is no contact in between.  They also go to court and tell the judge hwatever thier dad has told them to tell the judge adn have told me that they are doing this.

My 17 year old is worst because he will tell me, "I lied to the evlauator in dad's favor." but claims not to want to be prevented from coming here, and I beleive this part.

I have no advice, but wanted to add my support.  The way I seeit is that I have just three adn ahalf more years to go and it'll all be hsitory.  ijust need tohold onto my sanity for that long!

[MixedBag]

and see if there is anything that will give you ideas on how to deal with this situation.

I'm on the side of putting your foot down and if the daughter doesn't come, take the mom to court and "make it happen" MAINLY because if you two already had/have 50/50 in place and you are only 40 miles apart, that's not far IMHO.

I'm 750 miles away -- 50/50 is not an option.

When our son where I'm the NCP started that type of stuff, I asked him WHEN are you gonna make up the time with me.  or when are we gonna make up the time, because I'm not willing to give UP time with you and you shouldn't be willing to do that either.

There were so many many good ideas in that book that my EX hates the book and makes jokes about it......that tells you in itself it's fabulous because it undid his and Camilla's antics.

[mango]

Thanks for the supportive posts.

My hubby goes over with the FULL intention on being firm and saying
"No you are coming with me" But when he gets there she says she made plans with her friends, etc. and she doesn't want to come.

I guess my point is that if he forces her come, then it will worsen the relationship more. Because then her BM will have more bad to say, "you dad could care less about YOUR plans" etc., etc.

We have been there before.

Then she might pull the "not even being home" when he arrives for the next time. Which she has done before. See, he is powerless as a parent, because she has been taught it's OK to disrespect your dad, he is not worth it.

But as for now I think he needs a break too, his feelings are hurt. Even though we understand the PAS phenomenom it's still hard to get rejected, lied to, and forgotten. He always thought LOVE would "prevail", and if we love her when she is with us it's all that mattered. But it failed....the PAS is powerful, even with counseling.

We just look long-term, that in 4 years she will be an adult and she will eventually want an "adult relationship" with her dad, and hopefully a relationship with the ONLY siblings she has, and probably ever-will-have. (Since her mom will not likely re-produce again).

[notnew]

Our situation is different, but the PAS is extreme. BM has sole and has waged a campaign of hostility from day one. No communciations between parents, no conveyance of information on school activities, on and on and on. Court has been a dead end to resolve these matters.

7 years later we are done. Child has taken on the behaviors of the alienating parent. Lies to therapist, school personnel, etc., saying she is afraid of me (dad), doesn't like my wife, we yell at her for sleeping until 2 pm on Saturdays, we don't let her stay up and watch R rated movies, etc.

We too had GAL who was leaning to our side. That is when all the guns came out. BM obviously told child that the "terrible" treatment she had reported to GAL of her by us wasn't enough and off to the therapist with a WHOLE pack of lies. Court bought it despite recommendation to transfer custody. My child has no consious and feels absolutely no guilt whatsoever over the acts committed to gain the desired result.

I said enough. If my child wants to see me, call and I will come. Haven't seen my kid in over 8 months. Spoken via e-mail a few times and phone only when I call and that has only been a handful of times too.

My wife and I have done everything humanly possible to demonstrate to this child that structure is needed, rules are there for a reason, good clean living is the way to go, etc. BM has allowed my child to be exposed to drugs, sexual advances, smoking, no rules on tv, bedtimes, homework, etc. There are absolutely no consequences for my child with BM for any bad behavior because NOTHING is bad! Failing grades, absent all the time, lies, no chores to do - on and on. We have fought an uphill battle that has proven impossible to win.

I miss my child. I love my child. It hurts to know the direction life is taking for my child, but I recognize that my parenting rights have been stolen away and I do not have the financial resources to get them back (if that were even possible). I have let go for now. I hold on to hope that something inside remains and will rise to the surface one day resulting in us having SOME type of relationship that is somewhat healthy.

You and your husband need to review your priorities and decide how far you are willing to go with this and don't let her push you any farther. She has to realize that she is not the most important thing in the world to everyone. I think part of the problem with these PAS situations is that the child becomes the center of everyone's attention and becomes very big headed about their importance to everyone. They begin manipulating everyone involved too. You have to demonstrate to her that you expect to be respected and then respect yourselves enough to put real limitations on how far you will let her go with her outlandish behavior.

As others posted, there are lots of great books out there that can help. You have to take the route that is best for you and your family.

Good luck.

[cinb85]

keep calling her and if they don't answer the phone, leave a message telling her how much you would like her to come visit and how her half-siblings miss her.  Keep letting her know that you love her and want to spend time with her.

I have a 15 year old daughter and I am the BM.  My ex has had very little contact with our daughter for the last 14 years (even though he lived only 15 miles from us for the past 12 years).  He doesn't try to spend any time with our daughter, but in the last two years I have been very proactive in trying to get HIM to spend time with our daughter.  I keep telling him to call her and talk to her at least once a week to develop some kind of relationship with her (and this way she will know that he loves her).  Unfortunately he doesn't do this.  The last time he called our daughter was on Christmas of 2006 (and that's only because I called him the night before and asked him to call her on Christmas day).

The BM in your case should really do everything that she can to encourage her daughter to visit with her father.  I hope that you know that ALL BM's aren't like that.

I truly wish that my ex would start being a father to our daughter.  She is becoming a young woman and I believe that all young women (and young men) need their fathers!  

Good luck to you.

[mango]

Your situation has a lot of similarities. Our BM is loose with rules as well. No bedtime, she has been letting her watch Saturday Night Live for years now. She lets her go on dates, shes only 13. She has left her home alone since age 8. Teaches her that people of authority (Doctors, police, judges, etc.) do not deserve to be treated better then others. She certainly does not encourage the father-daughter relationship, she has sabotaged it every opportunity she could.

But I still hold my breath. She is 13 now, and at this pace she may get completely unruly by age 14 or 15 & mom may not be able to handle it, and may send her our way. Or maybe she will individuate from her mom and her mom may not be able to get along with her when she is not so "submissive" to her. Or maybe by 18 she will come around on her own.

But this BM has a very strong personality, and is VERY good at manipulating. She nows how to make you feel dumb as dirt, and that all she says is well and true, and right. Very condescending. Will never admit she is wrong, and always is superior to everyone. BIG EGO. That is exactly why she can't let-go of the EX. She can't believe at one point in time he rejected her. So he must pay for life by way of their daughter.

We have 3 kids of our own and have poured tens of thousands into this case with 4 separate custody battles in 9 years. We are done at this point. She has been the center of this family long-enough. It's time for the other kids to get some face-time. We tried our very best. As far as court is we still hold a 50/50 plan. Legally we could force mom to comply. But what good is that when SD doesn't want to come.

If BM files again our only hope is "court ordered" counseling. Court recommended it last time and BM hated it, and refused to take her, but the GAL forced the issue. BM dismissed her case for sole. As soon as court was dismissed, she dropped the counseling. We could do nothing about it, except OPEN a new case to get it "court ordered". No thanks.

Maybe that has deterred her from court once again, as she knows we will get it ordered this time. Plus the Counselor strongly recommeded dad have custody, she said the BM was mentally abusive with the PAS.

But even with that, it is highly unlikely that a court will overturn the school district with no physical abuse, drug, abuse, etc. Mental abuse, does not seem to be taken serious enough by the courts.

I do think teen-girls need their daddys MOST when they are at that delicate teen stage, but she won't return calls, or come. I give him credit for trying his best.

I know this will get twisted-around on us someday, the BM will say how "You dad didn't bother with you, etc. etc." He will be made to be the bad-guy. Always is.

The one thing for sure though. Anyone that meets my hubby can see he is the warmest-kindest, most genuine, person, and someday (maybe) she will open her eyes to what  a wonderfully daddy she really does have. :-)

Thanks for posting guys!