Proving Financial Instability?

[gemini3]

Does anyone know if there's any way to prove financial instability in court?  I know that my ex has a lengthy history of writing bad checks, not paying bills on time, accounts going into collection, etc.  I don't know if a judge or custody evaluator would consider this type of information.  I think that they should.  It could end up affecting the kids if her lights get turned off, the heat gets turned off, they get evicted from thier high-dollar apartment, her car gets reposessed, etc.  The problem is proving it when you don't have access to her bank records or credit report.

[mistoffolees]

I doubt if you'll get anywhere with it even if you could prove it. As long as the kids are fed and clothed, the courts aren't going to care.

If the heat gets turned off, then you might be able to do something about it. Not until then, though.

Oh, and don't be surprised if she uses that as a means of asking for more support.

[notnew]

Mist is right I believe.

I have heard of cases where the heat was off and court ordered the kids stay with CP despite the fact that NCP lived like 10 minutes away and had all the "comforts" needed to take care of the kids properly.

Nice huh?

Yes, as long as the kids are fed and clothed the courts don't care. That is 100% correct. In my experience, you don't have to send them to school either!

Sorry, but I agree that this is probably a dead end.

[gemini3]

I figured that would be the case.  I'm still getting stuck with the way things *should* work, and way they actually do work.  Very frustrating.  

She would use it to ask for more support as well, no doubt about that.  

Does it matter that their food is coming from food stamps and free lunch (that she technically doesn't qualify for, but lies on the applications to get)?  Or that the clothes are all purchased by me or her boyfriends mother?  She has no income, so what is she buying for them?  Nothing - that's what.  

No need to answer, btw.  I know the answer is no.  I just think it's ridiculous.

[durandal]

not that I know jack about anything, my own case is somewhat like that with the BM just working the system for dollars, but think about this:

i agree 100% that the courts won't care about that - take that as a fact.

thing is, the courts do listen (sometimes) when the child is in danger - or at risk of harm, in that case you might get their attention. but it'd better be good, sound reasoning and not just grasping for straws, or they'll get their pound of flesh - from you.

just my $0.02

[dipper]

Actually, I would keep any receipts for clothes or extras that I buy the children.  Also, usually the court does not pay attention to financial...but, if you have other concerns as well...and she is continuously getting unlawful detainer warrants issued against her, this could be something a GAL would carefully consider.  

In our case, my dh's lawyer fought on this issue.  The court did not care..GAL really didnt do anything at all....a  month later bm had been kicked out of her apartment...and then ss got kicked out of school for the second year in a row...that is when the GAL actually did something...and dh got custody.

[escape2paradise]

Nope!  The courts don't care!  They don't even care if the parent has a criminal record with recent activity!  According to my attorney the court takes the view point that just because you commit crimes doesn't mean you can't love and take care of your children.  Never mind that a bad example is being set and it's likely the child will grow up and be dysfunctional in society.  Nevermind that the parent could go to jail or prison at anytime.  All the courts care about is the basic necessities and the appearance of a parent child bond!

[mistoffolees]

>Nope!  The courts don't care!  They don't even care if the
>parent has a criminal record with recent activity!  According
>to my attorney the court takes the view point that just
>because you commit crimes doesn't mean you can't love and take
>care of your children.  Never mind that a bad example is being
>set and it's likely the child will grow up and be
>dysfunctional in society.  Nevermind that the parent could go
>to jail or prison at anytime.  All the courts care about is
>the basic necessities and the appearance of a parent child
>bond!

In all fairness, it's not reasonable to assume that everyone with a criminal record will raise disfunctional children. People make mistakes and then move past them. The court is in the difficult position of trying to predict the future and the past is an important piece of evidence, but not the only evidence to be considered.

For example, let's say that the person is charged and convicted for illegal gambling on a very small scale. They never gambled enough to affect their finances significantly and do it only very rarely (but never in the child's presence). Other than some hypothetical "but they broke the law, so they're bad people" argument, just how does that affect parenting ability?

[escape2paradise]

I understand what you are saying and yes all criminal records are not equal.  However, I would think that if one parent is squeaky clean and the other is a repeat offender that the courts would bet on the squeaky clean parent.  That is not always the case.  You may be guessing that this is personal for me.

In my situation I am dealing with a 20 yr record of repeated felony thefts with a conviction last year.  4 times in drug treatment, still uses and 2 1/2 months into this case has yet to be ordered a drug test.  Hasn't worked for 6 yrs.

We were not married, I have had custody of DD for 13 yrs, all her life.  He gets married a year ago and now he has decided he would actually like to play Daddy.  

I would have never thought he would have a chance in he$$, but my attorney says you never know.  

I on the other hand have been married to a wonderful man for ten years, I work out of my home.  We have two boys together.  We make a decent living.  DD is 4.0 student, participates in sports, acting, band, takes guitar lessons.  Teachers and adults love her.  We attend church on Sunday.  You get the picture.

How the courts would even consider removing her from our home to him is just sick.  Yet, here we are, he's having his day in court.  We are into this for thousands already and my attorney says its not the no brainer that most would think.  Why?  because DD is finally getting the attention from Dad that she has always wanted and now wants to live with him.  Nevermind the 13 yr old doesn't know all the circumstances and can't possibly decide what is in her best interest.

I do feel for my daughter and understand her need for her Dad and have never kept her from him.  Just the opposite.  However,  I do not think he is capable of raising her to be an honest, hardworking member of society.  At 13 yrs. I am not done teaching her and this time in her life is too critical, the choices she makes etc... to leave it up to him to guide her when he can't even guide himself.