Verbal Agreements Put In Writing

[IceMountain]

My ex and I have verbally agreed to some clarifications in our current divorce decree concerning visitation.  These changes will all affect me positively.

Since I know she is not to happy about the changes and because I'm afraid she will try to back out on one of the agreements, I have decided to put them in writing.  

I am going to ask her to sign with the agreement with a notary, but I'm pretty sure she won't agree to this.  As an alternate I will be sending the letter to her certified mail with return receipt.

I have seen some posts on here where it appears a copy is then sent to the courthouse to be placed in your file.  How exactly does this work?  If I send a copy to the courthouse, won't it have to be signed by both of us?  Will it have to be notarized to be legally binding?

We have clarified the following:
transportaion plan
holiday schedule
weekend visitation
summer visitation

We haven't made any changes, but we have agreed to make past verbal agreements null and void and to go strictly by the divorce decree concerning holidays, weekends and summer.  I guess my main concern is transportation.  It was not addressed in the original decree and we have agreed on a plan that I want to have some 'weight' on proving when and if she decides it's not convenient for her again.  

Any suggestions and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, IM

[Belle]

you just request this by r.r cert. mail. submit it to the court clerk ask nicely, for them to place document in your permant file; include your decree # on it. (simular to the Intent visitation letters) If she signs in front of a notary great! its a binding contract, BUT not a custody order, it can be enforced,if judge chooses to.  (like a renters agreement or any contract)  you can have a judge sign it if both parties agree to, a lawyer submits it to the court, but this has a fee.
I would put it in a Parenting plan format, just a simple one; ours was a few paragraphs that the mediator)
If she won't sign it, request a voluntary mediation session, well worth the $, she has to pay half.  (send letter to the court and to ex for requesting voluntary mediation, she will look bad if she refuses.) We did not tell my husband's ex  about paying 1/2, she was mad, she thought since we requested it, we had to pay.

Belle

[Kitty C.]

Even if it's notarixed, IM, it ain't good enough.  Cuz if it isn't court ordered, she does NOT have to follow it.  Notarizing an agreement only means that the notary public verified who signed it.  It has NO teeth whatsoever.  The ONLY way you can guarantee that she will be required to follow it is if you get it ordered by a judge.

[IceMountain]

So, basically, even if it is in writing and signed by both of us, it is still not binding unless it is signed by a judge?

If I send a copy to the court to be put in our permanent file, it is just that... a record of what was put in writing... and it has no binding?

We will be going to court anyway as soon as my tax return comes in and I can retain a lawyer.  

Can we just request mediation and handle it there instead of using lawyers or do I still need a lawyer?  Is mediation the preferred way to go?  How much does mediation cost?  

I feel so naive and stupid I just don't know how the system really works.  I've read the family court laws, but I learn more from these boards because it really puts things in perspective for me.  When we got divorced, I was even more naive and let my dad and the lawyer dictate everything and now I'm just sitting here screwed out of visitation times that should rightfully be mine.  

Another question on mediation ~~ I don't think a mediator will have a problem with giving me more visitation during school breaks and 3-day weekends because this is 'norm'.  However, how likely am I to get more time in the summer and 3 weekends a month if we just do mediation?  Even if we go through a lawyer, will the courts tell us to do mediation anyway?  If this is the case, what's the point of a lawyer?  (well unless they are present during mediation).

Please Help my sorry arse!!!

[Kitty C.]

Don't feel bad, IM!  There are MANY legal intricacies that can trip you up along the way!

The reason I said it's not binding is because it is NOT an order.  She might or might not agree to follow it, BUT if she doesn't, no judge will force her and you cannot hold her in contempt, even if it is in your court file.  Because if the judge didn't sign the order, he cannot hold her to it.  Get it notarized now, but GET IT IN THE ORDER, TOO!  That's the ONLY way you have to ensure that you have any recourse if she screws up.  And make sure there are sanctions (repercussions) if she does NOT follow the order. Like if she fails to abide by the order, she WILL be charged with contempt, you WILL be given make-up time, etc.

All a mediator is for is to talk to you both to come to an agreement, so that the judge won't have to do it for you.  They can and will make a recommendation and will tell the judge who was willing to compromise and who wouldn't.  But even with mediation, you will still need to get it into an order.  If you DO agree to everything in mediation (with your circumstances, don't count on it), it can go to the judge only for signature.

I know you're trying to do this as much on your own as possible, but you know first hand what can happen if you don't know what's going on or what you're doing.  Having an atty., just to sound off of, is the BEST ins. you could possibly get right now.

[Belle]

The agreement can be up held if a judge wanted to, however if only placed in court file she does not really have to abide by it and, and can get away with not being civil about the agreements made. (Judges look down on people not holding up agreements made that are in the best interest of children.

Our mediation was 120.00 for two hours so we each payed $60) If you have her go just bring up the same agreements some places can actually submit it to the court themselves. (since some places are recommended by the court,  We chose a mediator who was listed on the courts web pages under mediation)

I was frantic about our recent visit that I thought would not take place. I had contacted an atty. in case she faulted on the agreement made.
(they were not signed by judge, but placed in court file.)  Judges usually try to find out why CP came to a agreement and is now not abiding by it. The atty was going to charge us $800.00 to attempt court intervention to make her abide to mediation agreements since SHE actually placed it in the court file. (We have a long list of her demands in her responces to intent to visititations and mediation requests, her actions would be hard to explain)

Here is the problem, Yes you really should have a judge sign it. But if she won't agree to that, would you rather have a agreement you can later bring up that has been placed in court file or just a verbal agreement among the two of you? If your CP is like ours, makes up the rules as going thru life.(any written statements can help)

Belle

[IceMountain]

Ok, so I've got the agreement written up.  Now, what if she won't sign a copy for me?  should I still put it in the court file?

Another thing, should I tell her I'm placing it in the cour file?  When I read the "Notice of Intent to Exercise Visitation" it had on there R.R. numbers for letter sent to ex and court.  Should this be on the bottom of this agreement also?

Thanks for your advice!!!!

IM

[Belle]

If she won't sign, you really can't get much out of it other than the file now contains your preferences in visitation. I personally would request vol. mediatation (send that in letter to her and court file also) Bring your letter and mediator can help her see your views and reason with the both of you. (this usually makes a woman feel at ease if someone is listening to her, we also chose a female mediator to put cp at ease) men are fine but we needed cp to connect with mediator.

 If she signs, You can send her a copy r.r. after you both sign it, even if she recieves a copy at signing. You then can send it to the court clerk and request parenting plan to be placed in file. (form like Intent letters you need both r.r. numbers on both papers)

vol. mediatation is what helped us, we basically got what we wanted without going to court for modification, (explaining to cp & ncp what is reasonable visitation really means)We really could not afford court cost, and multiple airfare. Plus we know if we went to court, the atty for cp usually seeks more child support when ncp seeks modifications for visits.

You can still have a atty or paralegal submit it to the court, if cp agrees.

 I know it is tuff to decide what to action to take, we worry every visit whether she will abiding by her word but so far she has (CP has said it is not court ordered and she does not have to follow it! NCP replied yeah I know, but what do you think a judge do? I think he would support it since you signed it in mediation. then the phone hung up on her end)

We have had more visitation this year than the past 4 years all together. And that counts for something!!!