WHEN CHILD CALLS FATHER A LIAR!

[tharper001]

Well, it seemed we were on the right track to gaining custody of my 11 year old SD.  That is, until the child called her father yesterday, and proceeded to cry and tell him that he was lying about her mother and that she wanted to stay with her mother.  My husband is beside himself... he is sooooo angry right now he's not really sure what to do.

My personal opinion.... it's not up to an 11 year old child to decide what is best for her.  My husband will now instruct his attorney not to go for custody, but to go for visitation change as soon as possible.  He wants the mother to be responsible for getting the kid to and from him.  I know he should be able to get half of that... you see the mother moved several years ago and my husband travels 150 mile round trip every time he picks up his daughter, and every time he drops her off... not to mention the $6.00 in tolls that he pays each trip.  Her mother has never lifted a finger to help her daughter have a decent relationship with her father.  See my post placed on this board last Friday about the mother walking out of the deposition.

What is a father to do when his child has been brainwashed?  Because that's exactly what has happened... this child has always been thrust into the middle of things by her mother.  My husband has always tried to keep his child out of the middle by not discussing things with her... by having fun activities planned when she comes to see us and just trying to let her be a child... with nothing to worry about.  We went for custody in 1999 and were screwed by our attorney.  We've been continuing to gather documentation and about a year ago, my husband turned the case over to another attorney.  Finally, last October, the paperwork was served to the mother.  My husband had explained to his daughter in simple childhood language what he was doing and why and that things would probably get pretty tough at home from time to time (her mother has a history of being violent and blaming the child for things, etc.).  Sure enough, in October when she was served, the mother left several messages to the child -- not to us -- about how she was going to keep her dog and throw the child's stuff out in the garbage, and that the child could live her scum bag father, etc.  Thankfully, we have voice mail, and the child did not hear these.  Although, I'm thinking now might be a good time to let her hear these.

I guess with the deposition on Friday, with her storming out, child in hand -- then my husband picked her up on Friday for our weekend, and the weekend seemed to go very well.  Of course, deprogramming was necessary on the ride home.  I guess her mother hit her with brainwashing galore when she got home on Sunday night.  

I'm at a complete loss as to what to do.  How much more is my husband supposed to endure????  We want to have a family of our own, but how will he feel if he allows the witch to maintain custody and his daughter slowly drifts away from him?  Because if the witch is responsible to bring the child to us... we'll never see her.  And how much more money do we have to continue spending on attorney's fees... when that money can go to building our family's future?  I can't believe his daughter has called him a liar.  Her mother is a piece of crap and that's putting it nicely.  I won't even go to any of her soccer games, etc., because I have been verbally attacked by her mother on several occassions at these types of events.  Of course, right now the child has not been involved in any of these things over the last year or so because the mother has proceeded to miss sign up dates, etc.  

How do you handle this?  Do you explain to the child that this is in her best interest, and then let her read all the documentation and police reports about her mother?  Do you just drop the custody case, get the visitation changed so it's more up to date, and just let the daughter become a younger version of her mother (which is so scary).  The child will be 15 and pregnant, or on drugs, or something.   My husband has tried and tried to maintain the relationship with his daughter and provide her with the things that her mother doesn't.... including clothes and shoes that fit and health insurance (she doesn't keep jobs, so I actually cover my SD and my husband on my family plan).  We buy them, the daughter takes them to wear them to school, then we don't see them again... And he has just been slapped in the face by this child... And yes, my husband pays child support each month... that's the only reason why this woman doesn't give up her daughter.. because it's a paycheck.  

I am at a loss... and as a wife, I do NOT want to see my husband continue to be walked over because he made this big mistake in his life.  I am sick of the way this woman has brainwashed my SD.  I am sick that my SD called my husband a liar... because he is not.  I am sick of the way the courts drag their feet.  I can't imagine where we're going to end up, but there's an 11 year old child here that is very much in danger of losing her only stable parent... because how much more can a human being take until you have to cut your losses so that your current family won't suffer!!!!!!!!!!!

[lucky]

CONTINUE to fight for custody and get that child into counseling!!!  Leaving it at visitation only will just continue the problems and they will grow.

I know how you feel.  We fought for custody of yss and lost.  We did gain a little (we thought then) by dh and pbfh agreeing thru the GAL that she would drop off at the beginning and dh at the end of visits, but the GAL dropped the ball and didn't get it ordered.

Pbfh refuses to drop yss off and calls EVERY time there is an exchange and asks dh when he's coming to get him and tells him to "grow up and take responsibility".  If he doesn't pick up, we don't see yss -- unfortunately, up till a couple weeks ago, dh was on pain medication for his back and couldn't drive.  She didn't care -- our next visit is this weekend, we'll see if she's even home cause I know she won't drive him in.

And the PAS continues (low level now, but it's there) -- she tells yss that if dh REALLY loved him like HER SO does, he'd come and get him.  We've explained the meds, but the kid is 11 yo and is mentally handicapped, he doesn't get it and of course, mommy would never do anything wrong or lie.

Do NOT let your dh give up the custody battle -- if nothing else, perhaps he can get counseling ordered or something.  That little girl needs her dad....

JMHO.

[StPaulieGirl]

Common wisdom here is that the children should be kept away from the legal issues surrounding them.  Letting your sd hear the voice mail tapes could backfire on you.  I think there can be a way to discuss the fact that your husband is not a liar.  

My youngest was diagnosed recently as having clinical depression by the school psychiatrist.  I let her have as much space as possible, because I knew something was wrong.  Partly because she deals with similar tactics like your sd.  My friend has 3 children by his ex wife.  This woman and their oldest daughter do not get along, however her ssi check comes in handy.  He has found a classic car to restore for her, but I suggested he hold onto it until she turns 18, after he mentioned that her mom's car is falling apart.  If he gives her this car and her mother commandeers it, it will push her over the edge.

Have you posted on Shrink Rap?  Dr. D can probably give you good advice.  Good luck.

[Peanutsdad]

Your DH's ex is pulling out all the stops on the dirty tricks dept. Time for you two to fight back. Get your attrny to file a motion to get that child in counseling immediately. Use the crying lying phone calls as your edge that mom is NOT acting in the childs best interest.

[StPaulieGirl]

I was concerned about a child listening to that bull, but a lawyer or a therapist would be perfect!

[msme]

and that is the fact that she is a child. She knows who is lying but to admit it would be to admit that her mother is the liar. Actually, her calling her dad a liar is a good thing. She knows he will still love her & forgive her. You can bet that she would not say that to her mother.

Let her vent her anger & frustration & then hold her & love her & tell her that he will never lie to her. And don't. Also tell her that sometimes there will be things that are not for a child to know about or be involved in & he will not talk to her about those things. He will tell her that something is not for her concern.

Also talk to her about choices. Everything we do in our lives involves choices. We all have to make choices & bear the consequences of our poor choices. We cannot make someone else make the right choices, nor should we try to take the responsibility for someone elses poor choices.

He can tell her that he is sorry that her mother has made the choice to say bad things about him & to involve her in the legal issues. He has chosen not to do that.

He can tell her that he has made the choice to make sure that she has the best life possible. It is his choice, not hers & he is taking on the responsibility of that choice. Her mother has made the choices that have led to this & he can only do what he has to do to guarantee his child a stable home & good life.

With therapy, she will come to understand & eventually admit what she already knows. It took my DGD nearly 3 years following severe physical & emotional abuse & subsequent emotional abuse before she finally admitted what she knew all along.

But before she reached that point, my son went through many long rough days with rage, angry outbursts & name calling. He stood back & was just there for her, ready to pick up the pieces & reasure her of his love.

This has worked well for our family & it can work for yours. Even if it doesn't, do not give up on her, keep trying until you find what works for you.

Good luck & God bless.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[tharper001]

You make a very valid point... and very enlightening.  This website is so wonderful!

You see... this child has never been taught anything about choices and that you make them... not others.  She has been taught that if she slaps a kid in school because he called her mother a whore (happened in October) that the mother will just change your school.  She has been taught that when you throw O.J. on a kid because he called you big nose, that you don't get punished for it (happened after she switched schools in October... there's not many schools where she lives that are close by, so I guess that's why her mother didn't pull her out of school then.

And how do we punish her for that?  We can't... we can just talk about how this is not how we act... especially when the act happened and we don't get her for two weeks.

I have every intention on us having a family sit down and letting her "open up".  She has to be so careful with what she says.  My husband and I are going to try and get her to open up... and then explain that when a child is born, they have TWO parents.  And also explain to her that she is that child... and this is a situation that is between her father and her mother... NOT HER.  And I hope, that we can get through to her that when she is at home and her mother is discussing things... just rest assured that her father loves her and that she will still have TWO parents when this is all over.  I personally would love to prove her mother unfit... which would be relatively easy... but that is not in her best interest.  Her best interest is to live in a stable environment 80% of the time instead of the 20% that she has now.

My husband has calmed down a bit, and his attorney suggested to keep pushing forward.  My husband has requested his attorney do the necessary paper work to get his daughter to a counselor.  We will continue with the visitation changes, let his daughter have some time with the counselor and then proceed with custody... although, I'm pretty sure if we EVER get in front of a judge, that he'll see it for what it is (that's a lot of faith to have in the system, isn't it?).  Thanks so much for your advice.

[tharper001]

Thanks!  We are moving forward as planned, and our attorney has been requested to get my SD to a counselor.  Our attorney has also been requested to expedite a court date as soon as possible to prevent my SD from suffering any longer than necessary.  

[msme]

be sure to preface it with a promise that she can say anything during the meeting & you will not get angry with her, will not tell her mother & will always love her, no matter what she says.

She may test you on the last one, to see if you really mean it. Be prepared to counter angry words with words of love. Like, I am so sorry you feel that way but I am really glad you could get that out. Hopefully, you will feel differently when you are older & really understand more of what has happened.

Or, tell her how sorry you are that she has so much pain inside. Just be prepared for it & no matter what she says, keep your responses gentle & loving.

When you are ready to stop, wind it up by telling her that you appreciate her need to get this all out but that she must understand that name calling, & angry, ugly words are unacceptable outside a family meeting or the counselor's office. The rules of respect for adults always stand.

Good luck & God bless!

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!