Lunatic Grandparent Seeks more than visitation

[cc in fla]

Okay, here are the basic stats and facts:

-3.5 year old stepson lives with dad and I

-his birth mom has had a bad year and she signed over primary custody to us in february

-to excuse a large debt, the maternal grandmother forced her to have it written into our agreement that "maternal grandmother may exercise the mother's time when the mother is unable to do so"

-birth mom is getting back on her feet and attending classes in another part of the state, so grandmother has been exercising time for 3 months

-for Wednesday visitation, she was picking the child up from preschool at noon (before lunch/nap/storytime/snack) when she didn't have to work, and keeping him until 8-8:30.  Occasionally when she did have to work he would stay until 5 (we pay extra for him to stay until 5 whether he stays or not).

-2 weeks ago, Grandma called the school and told them she was picking him up early, but told us she was picking him up late.  There was a great confusion, so dad decided it would be best if he stayed at school until 5 EVERY day, including Wednesday.

-We met with birth mom about it and she was in agreement that it would be best to keep the child on a regular schedule.  (she is great, by the way, and we get along well.)

-grandma said "notsomuch" and has been taunting and bullying us with threats of getting the police involved if she can't have him at noon.  She showed up to his (very christian) preschool and cried/screamed/threw a fit because the school wouldn't let him go at noon.  Today, she threatened the school with police interaction, which prompted them to call my husband and I, and turned into an extremely embarassing event that had *sniff* my stepson bawling uncontrollably for Dad and I.  And poor birth mom was on the phone trying to convince Grandma to let it go.

My husband let grandma take him today (i wish he hadn't!) to avoid any more conflict.

This has become a pissing contest between Grandmother and Dad, and it is so clear to me that THE PARENT"S WISHES SHOULD TAKE PRECEDENCE despite grandma's interpretation of the words on the paper (that she didn't sign!). (The agreement says that NCP has rights after school on Wednesday.  It is pretty vague.)

My questions are:

1) Can grandma legally have the child removed from school by the police?

2) How can we remove "maternal grandmother may exercise the mother's time when the mother is unable to do so" from the agreement?

3) We have plenty of dirt on Birth Mom (this is so ugly) to have her custody taken away alltogether, but haven't pursued because the kid has a great relationship to her and we think it is best for him to maintain this relationship.  Is this the only way to get grandma off the agreement if Birth mom won't agree to remove her?

Sometimes I feel like we should pack up and move just to get away from her craziness!

Thanks for reading this, I know it is long but I would really appreciate the help!

[williaer]

I think if you want to change this agreement- you and birthmom can file a modification of the custody agreement without the grandma being involved. I think it would just have to be something like "the parents wish to modify the previous custody order dated ____" (not legal advice, just the wording in what we filed when we did shared parenting). The two of them can stipulate to a new agreement and one of them can file it with the court. The two of them could agree to drop her completely out of it- or clarify and limit her visitation. Might be hard for BM to do- since it's her mom- but perhaps you could sweeten the deal by calling it shared parenting or joint custody of some sort...let her get something out of it as well.

[Ref]

I am not a lawyer... so my advice is only my opinion based on experience with Grandparent's visitation in Florida.

The first thing I have to say is grandparents rights are SECONDARY to the rights of parents, so long as both parents are involved, the choice of visitation is up to both of you.

If BM agrees to remove that phrase, then you shouldn't have a problem. If she doesn't, you may have a hard time removing it. Really, the better relationship you have with BM the better you will be able to fight gma.

Also, who made it possible for Gma to pick the child up from school? Didn't you have to agree to allow her as a person who can do that?

If you and BM agree about no early pick-ups, you can probably drop something off at the school that states that only with parent's approval may the child be released early.

Gparents have a lot to prove before they have = rights to parents. Be friendly with BM and you should be able to stop Gma.

Best wishes,
Ref

[cc in fla]

Thank you so much for your response!

-"Also, who made it possible for Gma to pick the child up from school?    Didn't you have to agree to allow her as a person who can do that?"

Uggh, that was our fault.  She has become significantly more problematic since we enrolled him in the school in spring.

Our biggest problem right now is that BM feels like she has no rights because Grandma is doing whatever the hell she wants and disregarding BM's wishes.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that Grandma is paying for BM's school, car, and bills while she is in school.  This will make it HARD to get her to sign anything taking Grandma's rights away.

[Ref]

with gma.

You seem to be getting along with BM right now, so why don't you propose a conversation with Gma to lay down some rules.

You may be able to stop Gma from picking-up the child early from school without changing your parenting agreement. Nowhere in there does it say that Gma has the right to pick-up and if both you and BM agree that early pick-ups are a problem, you can just get her pulled from the early pick-up list.

You and BM will be held responsible legally for truancy. Gma may put you as parents at risk of getting in serious trouble. It may be too early to really get in trouble now, but setting a precedent that it is OK to skip school is not one that will avoid this in the future.

Good Luck
Ref

[Kitty C.]

Not necessarily.............if this is a Christian pre-school, and gma is willing to throw tantrums and call the police to that facility, they have every right to tell you to enroll your child in some other facility.  They also have to look out for the safety and well-being of all the other children there and asking one child to leave because of disturbances created by other family members would only be considered to protect that safety.

IMHO, I'd be telling Gma that she will NOT be picking up the child from PS until she can demonstrate some self-control and deference to BOTH parents, and even when she does, it would ONLY be after PS is out for the day (if you still choose to have him go all day).  I would also instruct the staff at the PS to call the cops themselves and not allow her in the facility if she tries to wreak havoc again.  It's called 'disturbing the peace' and it carries a WHOLE lot more weight if children are involved.

[gipsy]

I am The non custodial , The school only does what the parenting plan stipulates ,
   I would tell the Gma . That throwing fits is not an option , and if she wants to call the police then fine go ahead , But I would say she can't take the child from school early , I would tend to be leniant , As really she could be a help in deferring day care cost ,
   Then on the other hand if she is un consolable Then deal with it legally ,
   The bottom line is the school can do what the parenting plan say's
They will be likely to get into trouble if they let the child go with out parental consent ,
   The problem with people like this is they have learned there is a pay off to their poor behavior ,

[CGS]

I have fought with a horrible Gma for years, and I sympathize with you because it is very hard to endure.  It is almost unimaginable that a granparent would do anything to harm their grandchild, but this kid of behavior does just that.  

I could go on an on with horror stories as to what could happen if Gma is allowed to continue this behavior, but I think you already have a pretty idea what is coming.

Every state interprets Troxel v/ Granville (the landmark grandparents rights supreme court case) and almost all of the interpretations are just as grey as regular family law.. except for the state of FL.

I assume by your handle that you reside in Florida, so congratulations.. you are in the only "safe state" from grandparents visitation.  FL assumes that ALL parents ALWAYS act in the best interest of their child(ren) even if that means cutting of grandparents, and it is very difficult to rebut.  

If I were you, I would stipulate to a new parenting plan that cuts out the gma entirely w/ bm, file it with the court, and go on with your lives.. she can't overrule the parents decision.

Good luck.

[mistoffolees]

First, I would seek legal advice - at least from Socrateaser.

Second, I would personally (not legal advice) read the agreement carefully and authorize the school to release the child to the grandmother ONLY when you are required to do so by the agreement. If the agreement says that she (in the mother's stead) can pick the child up at 5:00 pm on Wednesday, instruct the school that they do not have your permission to release the child one minute before 5:00. I would also tell the school that if the grandmother throws a fit again, you will support them fully if they call the police (wihich is what they should have done).

I would NOT allow the grandmother have one minute more than she's allowed under the agreement - no matter how much she screams.

Sounds confusing because you're not really dealing with grandparent's rights. Because of your agreement, it MIGHT be more like parent's rights (again, consult legal advice). If you can do it, working with your ex on a modification to your agreement to remove the grandmother would probably be to everyone's benefit. Be prepared to get abuse from the GM, so make sure you have a good attorney and follow their advice to the letter.