Saga continues with STBX and visitation

[greatdad]

For the 4 th time in a row stbx ( has visitation rights only) fails to be at court ordered location.Last 3 times she flat cancelled. This time her relative is there and the children refused to go with him. I allowed relative almost 10 minutes to talk to kids and see if he could persuade them. They told him they didnt want to take that long ride with him, without their mommy there.
It came down to either I was going to have to physically force the kids to go, or take them home( this was a 4 hr round trip and it was 8:30 at night). If the mother was there the kids would have gone.
On way home the mother calls on cell and demands I take kids back. I put daughter on phone ( she is 7) and she tells her mom that she did not want to ride with the relative and that if mom would come she would go.Mother tries to ply her with promise of a party and gifts and daughter tells her no thanks, I will get them next time.
This was Friday night. Saturday night the cops come to my door at midnight, stbx and relative are parked up street. STBX told cops I had violated order and refused visitation. When I explained what happened and played the "audio" of daughter talking to relative and mother, he agreed that he would not have forced kids to go without mother being there and was going to refer STBX to magistrate.
I did offer that if stbx would call me sunday morning I would let her have the kids here locally until 7 p.m.That it was absurd that she would suggest that they should be removed from their beds, asleep after midnight.
Cop agreed and said he was going to relay Sunday offer to stbx and tell her she could see magistrate if she wanted for further interpretation.
They went to rate and apparently he took no action, as she called me at 2 a.m. to say we would meet today. I had her meet at police station parking lot and sign a paer agreeing she would return them tonight at 7 at same place.
I think she is going to have her atty ( tomorrow) try to say I violated agreement by not making the kids go with relative.
Has anyone dealt with this type of situation, and who would expect children to be forced to go with anyone other than a parent.
Oh, stbx reason is she now works at a bar till 4 a.m. and thats why she cant make it to get kids. I said well then we need a different visitation schedule which she refuses.

[ocean]

She will probably file contempt on you. Does your order state anything at all about who will pick up? Does it say "mother" ?
I would probably counter with a modification of visitation due to mother is unavailable for Friday night pick-up.....(and will not be home at all that night). Offer her long weekends throughout the year...THere is at least one per month on our school calendar. Then they can go Saturday through Monday night....

[greatdad]

>She will probably file contempt on you. Does your order state
>anything at all about who will pick up? Does it say "mother" ?
>
>I would probably counter with a modification of visitation due
>to mother is unavailable for Friday night pick-up.....(and
>will not be home at all that night). Offer her long weekends
>throughout the year...THere is at least one per month on our
>school calendar. Then they can go Saturday through Monday
>night....
 Order says "the parties shall meet", she and I are the only parties other than the children. She lives in another state 325 miles each way and gets EOW visits.
My question is that she gave me nor children any notice she wasn't going to be there and since I did take kids to appointed place, how is it contempt on my part............only one not there was her?

[mistoffolees]

> Order says "the parties shall meet", she and I are the only
>parties other than the children. She lives in another state
>325 miles each way and gets EOW visits.
>My question is that she gave me nor children any notice she
>wasn't going to be there and since I did take kids to
>appointed place, how is it contempt on my part............only
>one not there was her?

Ocean said she might file for contempt - not that she'd win it.

Since the order says that the parties shall meet and she wasn't there, you are probably OK. However, some judges could possibly take it upon themselves to enforce the spirit of the agreement rather than the letter, so depending on the judge it might be a problem.

Best thing is to file for a clarification for the future so there's no question.

[dipper]

Greatdad, I would ask for a copy of the report from police station....midnight is not in the best interest of the children.

Courts are a never know battle....but, you held up your end - you met in designated area.  The children were ready and available. She did not meet her responsibilities.  It is not legally your responsibility to force the children....but the court would expect you to try to coax them.

I would send bm a certified letter copied to the court suggesting an alternative or atleast for knowledge in advance so that you can prepare the children.  Do the children not like this relative or was it just the fact that they expected mom and she wasnt there?

I dont think you could be held in contempt because you did exactly what the court order stated...

:)

[babyfat]

We had a little different but close to the same situation. Mother filed a bogus DV charge on dad, dad had custody and parenting plain stated mom got the kid every weekend. The protective order stated no phone calls, no contact at all from either party. When we got this we didn't exactly know how to handle visits since she came to the house to pick the child up. So when friday came around we waited to see if she would send somebody else she did not. We didn't let the child call her mother for fear that she would say dad called and it came up on caller id as our number. Next week went by and still no contact so the child did not call or visit like the plan stated. Third week her sister called when she did I answered the phone and told the sister dad was at work child was home have her call her daughter while he isn't there and there is proof he isn't there. She did with in mins of hanging up. Sister called back and offered to pick the child up on friday I said yes and while dad was at work she picked her up and dropped her off on sunday. The next week same thing. The mother then tried filing a contemp charge on him after she lost the DV case and the protective order was lifted. the judge scheduled a court date then told her to grow up. She filed the order and it wasn't his fault she did not get to see the child and when other arrangements were made he allowed a relative to pick the child up and the judge stated he didn't even have to do that since it was not on the parenting plan for the child to be turned over to another relitive. She dismissed the contempt charge too.
Honestly I think it depends on your luck in judges. If your plan says that she is suppose to pick up the kids and she is sending others you might want to file contempt charges on her and beat her to the punch. If she is constantly in violation by not picking the children up, and she canclled last min frequently you have the case. I just don't think it is a good thing for these kids to be expecting to see mom and then she lets them down all the time. That has got to hurt them on many levels. The court should be aware of that. I'm not sure what is worse having a mom and never seeing her or having a mom and having her go in and out of your life at her will, never consistantly being there for you.

[greatdad]

>We had a little different but close to the same situation.
>Mother filed a bogus DV charge on dad, dad had custody and
>parenting plain stated mom got the kid every weekend. The
>protective order stated no phone calls, no contact at all from
>either party. When we got this we didn't exactly know how to
>handle visits since she came to the house to pick the child
>up. So when friday came around we waited to see if she would
>send somebody else she did not. We didn't let the child call
>her mother for fear that she would say dad called and it came
>up on caller id as our number. Next week went by and still no
>contact so the child did not call or visit like the plan
>stated. Third week her sister called when she did I answered
>the phone and told the sister dad was at work child was home
>have her call her daughter while he isn't there and there is
>proof he isn't there. She did with in mins of hanging up.
>Sister called back and offered to pick the child up on friday
>I said yes and while dad was at work she picked her up and
>dropped her off on sunday. The next week same thing. The
>mother then tried filing a contemp charge on him after she
>lost the DV case and the protective order was lifted. the
>judge scheduled a court date then told her to grow up. She
>filed the order and it wasn't his fault she did not get to see
>the child and when other arrangements were made he allowed a
>relative to pick the child up and the judge stated he didn't
>even have to do that since it was not on the parenting plan
>for the child to be turned over to another relitive. She
>dismissed the contempt charge too.
>Honestly I think it depends on your luck in judges. If your
>plan says that she is suppose to pick up the kids and she is
>sending others you might want to file contempt charges on her
>and beat her to the punch. If she is constantly in violation
>by not picking the children up, and she canclled last min
>frequently you have the case. I just don't think it is a good
>thing for these kids to be expecting to see mom and then she
>lets them down all the time. That has got to hurt them on many
>levels. The court should be aware of that. I'm not sure what
>is worse having a mom and never seeing her or having a mom and
>having her go in and out of your life at her will, never
>consistantly being there for you.

After the fiasco last Friday night STBX showed up at midnight on Saturday with police expecting the police to remove the kids and give them to her. Once I explained what really occured the police left and apologized for the inconvenience. I did allow STBX to have the kids Sunday from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m.
Her atty sent a fax to mine late Friday saying that she has a job( something she has concealed to avoid paying support) and that she would be unable to make it on Fridays from now on and would send her relative instead.This is the same  ( Male) relative my daughter refused to go with last Friday.
STBX still has made no effort to talk to me or the kids about this. The court order states that " The parties shall meet " then gives time, days and place. Only parties on order are Me, stbx, and 2 children. It doesn't say  parties or their designee, or parties and whoever they feel like sending, etc.
STBX seems to think that just because she chose to take a job that interferes with visitation, that it means she can just alter the order regardless of whether it is something the children are ok with or not.
Now, since everyone knows my daughters feelings about only going with her mom and stbx has made no motion to amend order.
Why would she want the children to travel  320 miles,until midnight  on Friday night  without her being with them,to then only see stbx for a few hours on Saturday ( she works till 4 a.m. in a bar), to then turn around and travel another 320 miles Sunday.
Shouldn't stbx do the right thing and come up here to see them Saturday and sunday  and not put the kids thru that travel when she isn't even with them?

I know that some people say, well if it's a relative, whats the problem. Well, court orders are specific because there is a problem, otherwise you wouldn't need a judge to create them. Then we have the fact that the children do not want to go with anyone other than the mother.I say it is her responsibility to be there and if that means rearranging work, or getting a different job, so be it.
How many of us both CP and NCP have rearranged our lives to do whats best for our children....especially when you only have to do it 2 weekends a month.
Would any of you force your child to go with someone that they weren't comfortable going with?

[ocean]

Have your lawyer state that this is not in the current order and offer a new parenting plan with the sat-mon when school is out and any other weekend with notice in your hometown. Since she is no longer available on her parenting time that it needs to be changed. Next weekend is a 3 day weekend in our district, if you have that, offer that and see what happens...

[babyfat]

To answer your question no I would not send a child with anybody relative or not that they didn't feel comfortable with period. If they don't feel comfortable with that relative there is probably a reason. The reason why I sent the child with her aunt was because the child has a good relationship with the aunt and the ride was only 1/2 hour maybe a little less.
I personally would take the issue back to court to try to find a better way for these children to visit with mom baised on the change in situation. It is not the kids fault the mom is well... a piece of work, however no matter how bad she is they still need her. This really needs to go back to court to ensure she has ample oppertunity to visit with these kids not for her, not for you, but for the kids. There just has to be a better way to work this out and since I only know your side of the story I'm just not sure what that is.