GAL and counseling

[Ref]

BM is now telling SD all about the court procedings and arguements she is having with DH.  She has convinced SD that DH is only out to damage her life and cause her upset. This is because she refused visitation and DH had to take her to court to get modification and he got everything (actually in mediation) he asked for.

SD is falling apart. She is emotionally being broken down. BM yells at DH over the phone and sayd things out of context like "SD is a WONDERFUL child!!" as if DH said that she wasn't.

Now SD doesn't want to fly up to see us during DH's labor day weekend because he is "taking her away from her family" and it is "too hard on [her] little body". These are verbatum things that BM has said to DH about other scenerios.

We have had trouble with visitation in the past and BM trying to maniipulate SD, but ever since the court case it has exploded. SD is a happy child with us and when there is no conflict.

They have been divorce 10 years, BM moved to Fla at the time of divorce. SD is 13.

1. What kind of evidence does a judge need to see to realize that SD is being horribly emotionally damaged? - Fla is a 2 party state for recording phone conversations.

2. Could we try to get a GAL or a counselor for SD through the court?

3. If it is found that BM is poisoning SD, what can the court do to protect SD?

[socrateaser]

>1. What kind of evidence does a judge need to see to realize
>that SD is being horribly emotionally damaged? - Fla is a 2
>party state for recording phone conversations.

A psychological eval and expert testimony is the proper approach.

Regardless of FL's two party recording consent laws, you can serve a notice on the other parent, that from this point forward, you intend to record all oral communication between yourself and the other parent and/or the child. Once you do this, then, as long as you can prove that the other parent received notice, then if the other parent engages in a recorded communication, then the recording is admissible. This is called "implied consent," as if you know that you will be recorded, and you continue the conversation, then you "impliedly" consent to the making of the recording.

EXCEPTION: If your court orders state that the child or the other parent is entitled to "private" telephone communications, then you cannot record, but the court order may be very narrow in its application, so if that text exists in your order, post it here and I will interpret it.

>
>2. Could we try to get a GAL or a counselor for SD through the
>court?

Maybe. You can ask.

>
>3. If it is found that BM is poisoning SD, what can the court
>do to protect SD?

Order custody reversed, among other things, but proof will be hard to come by. At the moment, I would serve notice to the other parent, that if the child is not on the plane for the Labor Day visitation, that you will immediately file for contempt, and with that notice, provide your notice of intent to record all future conversations, like so:

YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED, THAT I REGULARLY AND ROUTINELY RECORD ALL ORAL COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN MYSELF AND ANY OTHER PARTY/PERSON. IF YOU ENGAGE IN AN ORAL COMMUNICATION WITH ME, YOU "IMPLIEDLY" CONSENT TO THE MAKING OF AN AUDIO RECORD OF THAT COMMUNICATION, REGARDLESS OF ANY PROTEST MADE BY YOU PRIOR TO THE MAKING OF ANY SUCH RECORDING. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE RECORDED, THEN DO NOT COMMUNICATE WITH ME ORALLY.

[Ref]

Soc,

I have heard that judges will often say that they cannot control teenagers and will not find the other parent in contempt if the child does not wish to go to visitation. SD threatened to run away if DH forced her to come here.She also said she would lock herself in her room. She has NEVER said anything like that before. She is a happy child when she is with us, but as soon as she gets back she becomes angry with DH.

1. What is SD refuses physically to get on the plane? Is that still contempt?

 

[socrateaser]

>Soc,
>
>I have heard that judges will often say that they cannot
>control teenagers and will not find the other parent in
>contempt if the child does not wish to go to visitation. SD
>threatened to run away if DH forced her to come here.She also
>said she would lock herself in her room. She has NEVER said
>anything like that before. She is a happy child when she is
>with us, but as soon as she gets back she becomes angry with
>DH.
>
>1. What is SD refuses physically to get on the plane? Is that
>still contempt?

Probably not. You will need to file a motion with the court requesting a psychological eval of the child, and the other parent, on grounds that the child, suddenly and unexplainably is afraid to visit, and that the other parent is using this as an excuse to refuse to permit you to exercise visitation/custody, as required by the court order.

I would try first to record the child in a phone conversation with you, in an attempt to get evidence of why she is suddenly unwilling to visit. You have the right (assuming that you have joint legal custody) to do this, even without the child's consent.

SD is going through lots of biological changes, at the moment, so I don't know if any of this will help, but, damn certain nothing else will.

[Ref]

"The child(ren) should be afforded reasonable privacy during conversations with the parent. Neither parent shall record or monitor telephone calls between the child and the other parent (unless permitted to do so by Court order)."

That is all I have regarding phone calls. What do you think?

1. In your experience, when a child is being manipulated this bad and has been in the custody of the manipulator most of her life and the child is a teenager, does this constant legal battling hurt or does it help?

2. Have you ener seen custody reversed like this?

[socrateaser]

>"The child(ren) should be afforded reasonable privacy during
>conversations with the parent. Neither parent shall record or
>monitor telephone calls between the child and the other parent
>(unless permitted to do so by Court order)."
>
>That is all I have regarding phone calls. What do you think?

My prior post stands as written. The court order only prevents you from recording the other parent and child in a private conversation, not the other parent and you, nor you and the child.

>
>1. In your experience, when a child is being manipulated this
>bad and has been in the custody of the manipulator most of her
>life and the child is a teenager, does this constant legal
>battling hurt or does it help?

I'm not a therapist -- can't answer.


>
>2. Have you ener seen custody reversed like this?

Yes. But, proving it will be very tough.

[Ref]

BM took SD to the Dr. yesterday. SD told him that her stomach was upset because of the stress of having to visit. We have witnesses and pictures showing SD happy here. SD keeps instisting that she does not want to come up here and BM instists that it is her right to chose.

SD said that she would not run away or lock herself in her room if she comes up here.

1. If she doesn't physically resist the flight and BM allows her to not come, is that contempt?

2. How does her mother taking her to the Dr over the stress effect this?

Thanks Soc. You have been VERY helpful.

[socrateaser]

>1. If she doesn't physically resist the flight and BM allows
>her to not come, is that contempt?

Technically, the other parent must willfully and knowingly violate the court order to be found in contempt. Thus the refusal to permit visitation must be done intentionally and with knowledge that the contemnor's act(s) or omission(s) are in violation of the court order.

If the mother claims that her child simply would not get on the plane, then the mother is not in contempt, because the court will not expect her to drag the child, kicking and screaming.

If you want to play poker, then send a cerified letter stating that if the child is not on the plane as per the court orders, that you will immediately file for contempt. The mother may, back down and send the child, or she may stiffen up and call your bluff.

>2. How does her mother taking her to the Dr over the stress
>effect this?

The mother, for good or ill, is attempting to gather evidence to support her refusal to send the child. I can't judge the true motivation, but that's where it's at.

It's your play -- call or fold -- unless you think you can improve your rather weak hand and somehow convince the child to want to come visit. Maybe you should buy her a puppy! I dunno what to suggest.