A whole new can of worms

[Ref]

I just posted yesterday regarding whether DH has to pay for old "medical" bills. The resposes I received were very interesting but opened a whole new can of worms.

1. The question of whether the social worker is a medical expense was brought up - DH has not yet seen an insurance statement on any of the visits, so we will have to look into that. I believe that that is her title and she works as a couselor for my stepdaughter, as far as I know.

2.DH just got through mediation(last year) to change visitation and the Escambia County Parenting agreement and shared responsibility statement was adopted. This is the hideous County agreement I sent a link to you about a couple of days ago. I will attach the link again to keep you from searching for it.

a. Does this change the terms of who pays for what? His old agreement says he is to pay half of dental and all of medical.

http://www.stephentholman.com/CM/OnlineForms/SharedParental.pdf


Thank you Soc and to everyone else out there!!

[socrateaser]

>a. Does this change the terms of who pays for what? His old
>agreement says he is to pay half of dental and all of medical.

Healthcare reimbursement and insurance issues are not "custody" related. The "record" of a healthcare provider, and a parent's right to access records are custody related, but the financial issue is "in the nature of child support."

So, the parenting plan is not relevant to whether or not this "social worker" is providing a reasonable healthcare service. I need to see the child support orders.

[Ref]

After DH forced BM's hand and took her for mediation over visitation she said that she would take him for an increase in CS. He happily complied, especially after he received almost 5 times as many days with his daughter afterward. They negotiated and came up with a settlement. The paperwork is in DH's hands right now with her notorized signature. The only verbage is that payments will increase to a certain number and he will be able to have the rights to tax deduction everyother year.

This is what the original said:

CHILD SUPPORT PAYMENTS AND PROVISIONS
...

As additional support for the minor child, the Husband shall maintain medical insurance coverage on the parties minor child. The Husband shall be responsible for all reasonable and necessary medical expenses not covered by the said insurance... Husband and wife shall each be responsible for one-half of unreimbursed dental expenses.

LIFE INSURANCE

For so long as the Husband is obligated to pay child support, he shall maintain a policy insuring his life in the sum of ___, and shall name (EXWIFE) as sole beneficiary, as trustee for the parties said minor daughter.

The wife shall be entitled to claim the paties minor child as an exemption for tax purposes.


1. Does the original order stand exept payment amounts and tax deductions or is it entirely overwritten by the new agreement (life insurance, med insurance and all?)

2. Based on the original question, assuming the social worker is considered medical, how long does BM have to issue reciepts to DH? There is no wording regarding this.

SMOOCH!! Thanks again

[socrateaser]

>1. Does the original order stand exept payment amounts and tax
>deductions or is it entirely overwritten by the new agreement
>(life insurance, med insurance and all?)

Yes.

>
>2. Based on the original question, assuming the social worker
>is considered medical, how long does BM have to issue reciepts
>to DH? There is no wording regarding this.

Probably the same amount of time that a person would have in your state to enforce a contract obligation (4-6 years, usually).

The order states medical. Mental health care is not generally considered medical. Most orders use the word "healthcare" rather than medical to avoid the possibility of any confusion. A social worker is not even a therapist, therefore, I think you may have a strong argument that you are not obligated at all for these bills.

>SMOOCH!! Thanks again

(blushing)

[Ref]

For question #1, did your "yes" response mean Yes the original order stands or does yes mean the new order completely overrides it?

PS. If DH's insurance covers the social worker, does that mean that it is medical or is it really not something he should worry about?

Happy weekend

[socrateaser]

>For question #1, did your "yes" response mean Yes the
>original order stands or does yes mean the new order
>completely overrides it?

The new order controls and overrides the old order, except, where the new order is silent, the old order remains in force.

>
>PS. If DH's insurance covers the social worker, does that mean
>that it is medical or is it really not something he should
>worry about?

If you have medical insurance that covers the social worker's services, then that is evidence in favor of an argument that such services are medical in nature. And, it would probably be very compelling evidence, because judges will bend over backwards to force you to pay for anything the child needs -- and for most things that the child doesn't need, as well.

[Ref]

His order says he is to cover all reasonable and necessary medical costs not covered by insurance. His daughter only goes to this social worker less than once a month. The center offers massage therapy and yoga classes as well as counseling. When BM was mad at DH she claimed she would take her several times a month.

1. How does this sound as an arguement about these costs? DH was never consulted regarding these services as the parenting agreement states. SD doen't need to go for the 2 months she is with us during the summer and only goes once a month, if that. This shows that they are not necessay expenses and therefore the BM's costs.

2. DH's insurance covers smoking cessation classes and gym membership discounts. Would that be his expense too?

Sorry again about so many questions.

REF

[socrateaser]

>1. How does this sound as an arguement about these costs? DH
>was never consulted regarding these services as the parenting
>agreement states. SD doen't need to go for the 2 months she is
>with us during the summer and only goes once a month, if that.
>This shows that they are not necessay expenses and therefore
>the BM's costs.

The issues are, what are the social worker's credentials, what is the reason for the counseling, what is the prescribed course of therapy, and are these things reasonable and necessary medical costs?

If you emphasize the custodial parent's motives, you will appear to be hostile towards the parent, rather than concerned about the child's welfare, and the court will smack you down.

This is your legal argument: "Your honor, this isn't medical care, it's just really expensive baby sitting, without any reasonable relationship to a diagnosed medical condition.

If the child requires psychological therapy at the level of a medical professional, then the mother should be required to provide evidence in the form of a professional diagnosis, and a bona fide psychotherapist should be retained -- not some half baked social worker."

>2. DH's insurance covers smoking cessation classes and gym
>membership discounts. Would that be his expense too?

The healthcare costs contemplated by the law are those that are part of a course of therapy prescribed by a licensed physician and/or psychotherapist. Everything else is covered by the basic child support. So, if medically supervised smoking cessation or physical therapy is prescribed by a medical professional, then your on the hook -- otherwise, your not.