Reasonable/liberal visitation?

[Jackie1884]

My divorce is in Minnesota.  Ex and I still live there.  The divorce states I have "liberal and reasonable" visitation.  Over the three years since the divorce we've done an every other weekend and Wednesday night schedule.  She has her schedule at work set so she works the weekends I have the kids and the other weekends off (shows that she is aware and agrees with this schedule?).  

My ex has a conflict and as a result the kids will not be home Friday when I would normally pick them up.  She is telling me they will be available to me on Saturday.  I have always picked them up at 6pm on my Friday.  This is not the first time she has cut my weekend short.  She refuses to switch weekends as a compromise.

I was told by the local P.D. they can not help me since our divorce does not specify my parenting time.

With my attorney we are working to establish my parenting time and holiday schedule through the courts but until then:

1. Am I at my ex's mercy as to when I see my kids?

2. Is there a definition of reasonable or liberal for the purpose of parenting time?

3. How is liberal and reasonable parenting time enforced if the parties don't agree?

Thank you.  

[socrateaser]

>>With my attorney we are working to establish my parenting time
>and holiday schedule through the courts but until then:
>
>1. Am I at my ex's mercy as to when I see my kids?

Yep. You need to clarify the orders so that they are specific enough to be enforced.

>
>2. Is there a definition of reasonable or liberal for the
>purpose of parenting time?

It doesn't matter. In order to enforce a court order, it must be sufficiently precise such that law enforcement and/or the court can see that the offending party is in willful and conscious disregard. No matter how you slice it, "liberal and reasonable" is not enforceable by law enforcement, and the court can't find contempt, unless you can show that the other parent has completely cut you off, which isn't the case.

>
>3. How is liberal and reasonable parenting time enforced if
>the parties don't agree?

Motion to clarify on grounds that the current order is creating conflicts between the parents and is therefore not in the child(ren)'s best interests.

[Jackie1884]

Quicky summary.  Divorced in MN, all still there.  My ex has sole physical we share legal custody.  We are preparing for court to establish my parenting time, as our divorce currently states "liberal and reasonable."  

My fiancé and I were planning on taking my two children out of state for the weekend during the every other weekend schedule we've been on for several years.  I informed my ex of our intentions.

She told me she's not allowing me to take the kids out of state.  She'll let me take them for the weekend only if I agree not to leave Minnesota.  She said if I take them out of the state she will deny any further visitation until we go to court.


1. Can she put that restriction on my time?  

2.  Am I violating any laws if I take them out of state without her consent?

Thank you.

[socrateaser]

>1. Can she put that restriction on my time?  

Yes, she can, until you go to court.

You are entitled to liberal (broad) opportunity to visit with the children, under any reasonable (rational) circumstance. But, visitation does not mean that you can remove the children from their home environment without the custodial parent's permission. Visitation is a personal license and the court order, as currently issued, grants the custodial parent to limit the scope of that license.

>2.  Am I violating any laws if I take them out of state
>without her consent?

The court would not likely find you in contempt for traveling out of state with the kids, and out of state law enforcement would not be likely to arrest you for custodial interference, because of the ambiguity in the order, and the fact that you would not be making any secret of the children's location.

But, I wouldn't want my vacation upset by being stopped by a state trooper after the custodial parent made up a story about the kids being kidnapped, even if ultimately the custodial parent were arrested and charged with making a false police report. It's just not worth the stress.

However, if you have already made vacation plans, changing those plans will cost you money (irreparable harm), and you relied on the prior agreement or silence of the other parent concerning your plans, then the combination of those things would give you the right to an ex parte hearing to give you a temporary order granting you permission to travel outside of the state.

[Jackie1884]

Thank you for the response.  

1. If I'm granted every other weekend visitation by the court will I then be able to take them out of state on my weekends?  Or is it something that has to be specifically written into the order?

[socrateaser]

>Thank you for the response.  
>
>1. If I'm granted every other weekend visitation by the court
>will I then be able to take them out of state on my weekends?
>Or is it something that has to be specifically written into
>the order?

You should be asking the court to establish the "standard" parenting plan applicable in the jurisdiction.

The term "visitation" is an anacronism of the time when men worked and women stayed home. Visitation is a bare license to visit. It is personal and non-delegable. A visitor cannot even delegate the license to someone else, for example, it would be unlawful to permit a stepparent or grand parent to exercise the legal parent's visitation time (or, even to pick up the kids and bring them to the legal parent).

You don't want to be a vistitor in your children's lives -- you want to be a joint custodian who exercises custody, because you are a parent with equal rights to that of the other parent. You simply are not awarded the role of day-to-day caretaker.

If you are a visitor, then alternating week visitation is still nothing more than an opportunity to visit. The court can certainly expressly permit you to do other things, effectively expanding the license until it effectively becomes joint custody.

But, that's not what you really want. You want to be on an even playing field. You want joint legal custody.

Don't go to court asking for better visitation, because that's all you'll get, and you may get less. Ask for more and take less if you must.

[Jackie1884]

Although I didn't state it in my post, we do share legal custody.  I am at every school conference and most doctor appointments.  

When we divorced I had an inexpensive attorney and I guess I got what I paid for because the only parenting time set up was, I have x-mas eve and BM has x-mas day with no exchange times established.  We've always worked together on my time with the kids but things have gotten ugly since I got engaged, so we're going to hammer it out in court.

I am going in with the 'ask for more philosphy,' at this point I have nothing to lose.

No questions unless you have further advice.  

Thanks again.